New Zealand v Wallabies, Eden Park, Sat 22nd October

[Twoilms]

Yeah I was just thinking how much more cramped our backs have been looking outside Quade.

DHP and Kerevi seem to be continually running out of space.

Pretty incisive against the argies but against the boks there was a lot of shitty lateral back line play going nowhere. Wont get any better next match.

 

[Viking]

In Genia's case, how often does the recipient look swamped? And Quade's case, how often to players outside of him get cramped and run out of space?

That's could be the issue though couldn't it... tactics which are over-done become ineffective. Genia has been superb this season, but previously he was in a bit of a rut and certainly over-done the side-ways drifting/stepping to the side - probably built up a bit of a reputation from it.

For me it's all about balance, quick ball from the ground most of the time when possible, occasionally hold up the defences by drifting, occasional box kick.

It's very easy to over-do and should be used sparingly as defences adapt quick. But that's just my opinion.

Although this season Genia has got the balance mostly right. I don't have an issue at all with it.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Twolims, yet in that Boks game the entire backline barring Folau were breaking the line at times. And then there were the times when an Bok defender could do nothing but get a hand on the pass to shut down play, such as McMahon on the inside.

Seb, that's the thing. They switch it up. Defenders starting drifting off Quade and suddenly somebody charges through a hole on the inside. Then the defenders start fixing more so he straightens and the guy on the outside has space. We saw this at times in the first SA test when the inside ball wasn't on as much.

Much the same as Genia. The defender start to drift off on his step and he takes off on their inside.

The point is good playmakers keep the defenders guessing by differing their attack.

 

[emuarse]

Our best ever half-back was a wonderful sniper, but he had all the other skills as well.


I refer, of course, to the great Ken Catchpole.

Such as brilliant defense. Never forget his game at Ballymore against the AB's when he came across the field from a midfield line out and grabbed the ball from the AB winger, like out of no where.

 

[amirite]

People who have just read half of Bob Dwyer's coaching manual or listened to Kafe analyse a few things something else like to pick it out and say "OH HE HAS TO STRAIGHTEN!!11!!1!!" but never consider that these things are coached for certain reasons. Such as not crowding outside runners, not cutting down receivers' time, etc.

Spot on mate. Half understanding of standard rugby coach cues is rife, particularly in junior and lower grade coaching.

At scrum time cries of 'get low' and 'set your head like you're peering over sunglasses' leads to some horrendous scrum tech.

On 10s drifting - Personally I like guys to square up before they give though, and Quade generally does this.

Though, sometimes your wingers do run out of space doing this (depending on where the origin of the ball is), that's why I am personally a fan of forwards running pods off 9 and not 10 so the backs have space, but I get why they do otherwise.

I think the issue is usually, your 9 can pick it up and interest the 1, 2, 3 defenders OR your 10 can go cross field, if you do both the ball is slow and the backs lose space.

 

[Twoilms]

Crabbing won't work against the AB defense. It just won't don't, care how many times you call Quade a genius.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I've never once called Quade a "genius".

I've just said that he tries to set up defences to create opportunities.

I thought that was something that all decent playmakers do.

The fact is that if Quade drifts, it doesn't really matter who it is against, only two things can happen:

a) The defenders follow him. Now if that occurs, guess where they are not? The inside.

b) The defenders hold on the inside. Guess where there is then space? On the outside.

Add in the fact that Genia is either fixing the ruck defenders, or exploiting the space if they drift.

Now obviously you need some semblance of front foot ball to do this, because if you are getting tackled when you catch the ball you cannot do anything. But that's going to happen when you straighten too. And if that is occurring you need to deepen to have time to distribute, which lessens the ability to do anything, because the defenders have time to react. But in that case neither straightening, drifting, or setting up defenders will work because they have the time to maintain their line before they have to make a decision.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Crabbing won't work against the AB defense. It just won't don't, care how many times you call Quade a genius.

The Wallabies have a plan to beat the AB's
Maybe it's the crabbing?

 

[Twoilms]

I've got it! Quade and Foley should alternate at first receiver. Foley to straighten up and run at the line/play someone else in to straighten. Then we follow up with Quade who plays looser and wider. then alternate again. Advantage of having two 10's rather than a 10 and a 12.

I'm a genius i know.

 

[Scrubber2050]

I've got it! Quade and Foley should alternate at first receiver. Foley to straighten up and run at the line/play someone else in to straighten. Then we follow up with Quade who plays looser and wider. then alternate again. Advantage of having two 10's rather than a 10 and a 12.

I'm a genius i know.

You shouldn't have let the cat out of the bag. Now the AB's will be scratching heads to counter your well thought out and up to now, secret strategy.

 

[Train Without a Station]

But straightening isn't going to work if you are on the back foot, as you will just be tackled before you get the chance to distribute.

Which is the problem in having 2 10s because if you don't have time you need somebody to crash to generate front foot ball.

Foley drifts at 45 degrees just as much as Quade. Not because he wants to, but because he needs the time and space to distribute.

 

[Twoilms]

^^^^
Nothing works when you're on the back foot. That's why being on the front foot is so good. If being on the front foot wasn't really good we wouldn't constantly be trying to get back onto the front foot.

 

[amirite]

"Crabbing" is another one of those rugby oversimplifications.

You've got to run angles in rugby, it's what challenges defences.

 

[Braveheart81]

This thread is currently crabbing towards the sideline and it isn't drawing any defenders in.

 

[ACR]

tldr: something about the wallabies have crabs.

 

[Braveheart81]

tldr: something about the wallabies have crabs.

They caught them from Aaron Smith.

 

[zer0]

They caught them from Aaron Smith.

16 men, one cubicle?

 

[Braveheart81]

So apparently Genia is heading back to France and will miss this game but it looks like Pocock and McMahon will be available.

 

[KOB1987]

So apparently Genia is heading back to France and will miss this game but it looks like Pocock and McMahon will be available.

'Sort of' is my read on it. It sounds like they will be named in the squad, whether they are fit to be named in the 23 is another matter. One of them would be nice though!

 

[Viking]

'Sort of' is my read on it. It sounds like they will be named in the squad, whether they are fit to be named in the 23 is another matter. One of them would be nice though!

For the bench. I rather like the idea of Hooper and Timani starting. (unless Poey is 100% then Poey & Timani sounds great to me)

Maybe McMahon can take Mumm's spot at 6 but not sure how the line-out will go.