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Reds 2017

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Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
<snip>
From what I see at the moment the Tahs are much more proactive in embracing their heartland. Reds need to do some work.
I reckon in recent years that the QRU/Reds have done more at grass roots to embrace the heartland than has happened in NSW. It is worth noting that Waratahs Inc has been the professional team, and a completely independent entity from the NSW RU.

Provided Waratahs Inc had enough cash over at the end of the year to afford the approx $1m licence fee which they had to pay to NSW RU, they were happy. Grass roots and heartland stuff was someone else's problem as far as Waratahs Inc was concerned.

NSW RU had a steady flow of $1m each year from Waratahs Inc, but no real ability to direct Waratahs Inc to engage with the heartland/grass roots. In accordance with their priorities.

On the other hand QRU had that ability, and IMHO watching from afar, they seemed to achieve that engagement far better than we did down in Gods Country. The last days of the RG era - - - I reckon that they are the exception that proves the rule that Qld did it better and were an outlier.
 

Happy to Chat

Nev Cottrell (35)
My big question with all the development players coming through why are we contracting players from NRL and AFL? We let players like Gill, Lance and Morahan get away. Why aren't we giving the likes of Magnay a go? He will most probably spend the season on the bench again. 3rd season in Super Rugby and he has more splinters in his butt than blisters on his feet.


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amirite

Chilla Wilson (44)
My big question with all the development players coming through why are we contracting players from NRL and AFL?

AFL (specifically North Melbourne) just signed Sam Jefferies' little bro, who was a very good rugby player. Codes always look to sign the biggest talents and focus on the rest later.

Given he only played Combined States and not QLD1 or Aus Schools (still impressive), he was still one of our few 200cm+ players and those blokes are very important in senior footy.
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
My big question with all the development players coming through why are we contracting players from NRL and AFL? We let players like Gill, Lance and Morahan get away. Why aren't we giving the likes of Magnay a go? He will most probably spend the season on the bench again. 3rd season in Super Rugby and he has more splinters in his butt than blisters on his feet.


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he's played a fair bit considering most of the time he's been on the bench he's been injured.
 

Happy to Chat

Nev Cottrell (35)
he's played a fair bit considering most of the time he's been on the bench he's been injured.
I get what you are saying RR, just using him as an example. My big gripe is contracting in NRL players before giving union players a go. In the case of Maranta the Broncos are extremely pleased to get rid of him and the Reds sign him?? Another one is Nabuli who has not exactly set the game alight!!


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RebelYell

Arch Winning (36)
I just think it's a shame Mason has lobbed as 3rd choice at the Tahs, which is what he would also have been at the Reds, when he would have been at least second choice at the Brumbies or Rebels.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
Putting aside all the 'for the good of Australian rugby' pieties re the Mason matter (that typically are far more sentimental than factually thought through), I possess a more brutal calculus as a Reds and broader rugby fan:

- if the Reds languish as a 'just OK' S18 team in 2017 and 2018, the QRU will enter a state of serious financial trouble once more, Suncorp crowds in the high teens thousands or close are simply not viable (let alone the seeping negative flow-through to lowered sponsorship $s and Foxtel numbers)

- it's clear that all Aus S18 franchises bar perhaps the Tahs are in various gradations of chronic financial fragility or worse (rumours swirl in MEL that the Rebels new owners need more subsidy from the ARU than is contractually agreed) and the ARU will only be able to bail so many out at once

- it's proven beyond doubt that very few if any current day S18 teams get into the Super Finals without a very good, consistently playing 10

- QC (Quade Cooper) has a bad history of injury and he's not the Super player extraordinaire he was in 2010-11 and, for the Wallabies, in recent years he's been mixed-to-good but rarely outstanding and his place kicking is adequate not upper % level.......and that's before we assess just how much the Super comp has increased in competitive quality (from NZ and Aus) since QC (Quade Cooper)'s golden era

- in short, the Reds need to be rapidly developing exceptional back-up 10 capability to QC (Quade Cooper) and, whilst others will disagree, I do not see an 'exceptional developing and ready-to-take-over' 10 in McIntyre, quite the contrary. He's been tried and typically found wanting at Super level, either in terms of natural 10 talent at that level, or perhaps it's mental, or both

- so, if QC (Quade Cooper) is injured and/or performs less well than we all sentimentally want him to, I believe that objectively McIntyre will not be a game-wining force for the Reds and he could well be the opposite

- To me, Duncan P is not a 10, more a 12 on all current evidence and we probably need him there

- there is no guarantee that young talented 10s like S Greene (gone to Japan) or M Mason (Tahs) will become established high-class Super 10s but I have seen enough of both at GPS and other levels to be convinced that are or were better prospects than McInyre and that the QRU should have bitten the bullet with McIntyre and kept at least one of the above two in play as back-up to QC (Quade Cooper), or maybe take the other risk of Duncan P as consistent back-up 10 and give some Super playing time to a Mason

- let me stress: all the above is predicated upon my conviction that the QRU's actual, real situation today is not one of being able to in any way afford 'a few years of relaxed player development premised upon a long-term plan to get to the S18 Finals in maybe 3-4 years time', its commercial survival needs are far more pressing and require an utterly ruthless pruning of squad under-performers, in both prime or immediate back-up positions

- the Tahs have a good supply of backs talent in NSW; they have picked Mason very shrewdly from QLD for a reason - he has on many occasions shown not only exceptional, classic 10 skills but has an excellent place kicking ability as well. The Tahs rightly know they need a top quality stock of 10s coming up and in behind Foley if they want to gain and sustain further Super success and.....survival, by the way.
 

amirite

Chilla Wilson (44)
I just think it's a shame Mason has lobbed as 3rd choice at the Tahs, which is what he would also have been at the Reds, when he would have been at least second choice at the Brumbies or Rebels.

At the Brumbies he would've got minutes. At the Rebels, I feel our current 2nd choice option is just as good and has performed better at a comparable level (3rd tier national comp).
 

Blanco

Ward Prentice (10)
Being the best 10 of your year group at under 20 level doesn't necessarily mean you will be that amazing in the long term. McIntyre was also that guy and so was Debreczeni and neither of them have really excelled so far.

You are right, but it is a good start..
 

dru

David Wilson (68)
I reckon in recent years that the QRU/Reds have done more at grass roots to embrace the heartland than has happened in NSW. It is worth noting that Waratahs Inc has been the professional team, and a completely independent entity from the NSW RU.

I really like the separation between amateur and professional in NSW and love the way it is used to bring funds into the RU and grass roots. I suspect the Reds "zuzamenkeit" has little to do with those arrangements, and I dont think it's without a rocky road. But on the whole it's something that is done very well at Reds/QRU HQ.

NSW issues are broader imo, though the issue is done to death on other threads.
 

RebelYell

Arch Winning (36)
At the Brumbies he would've got minutes. At the Rebels, I feel our current 2nd choice option is just as good and has performed better at a comparable level (3rd tier national comp).


I think Garden-Bachop & Mason are roughly on par in terms of what they've achieved, and while I have no issue with the FDP concept in isolation I would prefer to see Foley, Debreczeni, Mason & Hegarty all in the 23s at the two Clubs before we bring in speculative Kiwis.
 

neilc

Bob Loudon (25)
- it's proven beyond doubt that very few if any current day S18 teams get into the Super Finals without a very good, consistently playing 10

.


I agree that 10 is the most important position for a team to have a really good player in. Regardless of whether you like the style of that 10 (thinking of Morne Steyn at the Bulls - limited style but very effective) For years the Tahs, despite a wealth of talent overall, lacked a really good 10 and so underperformed until Foley settled in the position. The Blues were at their best when Carlos Spencer was 10, Brumbies with Larkham, Crusaders with Mehrtens and Carter, Chiefs with Cruden, Hurricanes with Barrett etc.

Quade is a very good 10 - regardless of whether he is as good now as he was etc, he has the skills and knowledge, but totally agree that good backup is needed and that backup needs to get game time to get experience at the Super Rugby level. Is Jake McIntyre the right backup? I don't know, I agree that he hasn't lit the game alight and assume that because he is contracted until the end of 2017 they have to keep him until then. If he fails to develop the right stuff in 2017 who do we look to? As Reg I think pointed out, performing at U20 level doesn't necessarily mean you will deliver at Super Rugby level, same with Premier Rugby form - that is where the NRC will help (hopefully). But right now, McIntyre appears to be the option they have chosen for backup and I hope that his working with Quade and with the new coaching team will help him to develop the right way.
 

Scrubber2050

Mark Ella (57)

Same old argument.
If he (Magnay) is good enough he gets the starting spot.
If not that good, then he gets the bench until he is good enough (or gets released from contract)
 
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