Reds 2017

[RedsHappy]

He got a better contract offer from the Waratahs and took it. I don't believe there was no contract offer from the Reds.

Good on the Tahs, that is not the point here in any way. My point being: the Reds should have fought very, very hard to keep him. I know for certain that they barely fought at all.

It was obvious that he and Greene had way more upside than Jake McI. It was also almost as obvious . moreover - that (a) QC (Quade Cooper) was unfortunately becoming more injury prone and (b) it was probable that his best years had passed.

There is no more important position in modern pro rugby than 10. No team will ever make the Super finals these days without a good/really good 10.

So, you want to ensure that's the talent you focus laser-like in on, never settle for second best as your main 10, and, as QLD grows good talent, promote and develop your best up and coming 10s hard and, brutally if needed, set aside the mediocre ones.

Having said all that, Mack M is being thrown in at the deep, deep, deep end if he starts v the Cru on Sunday, that is for sure.

I watched this fine young guy grow and develop in the QLD GPS comp and I am thrilled for him. I just hope it's not perhaps just a tad too much too soon this way, but we shall soon see and Mack himself would never want to die wondering.

 

[The torpedo]

There is no more important position in modern pro rugby than 10. No team will ever make the Super finals these days without a good/really good 10.

Ahem?

the most important position is tight head prop and the second most important is the reserve tight head prop

 

[RedsHappy]

Ahem?

the most important position is tight head prop and the second most important is the reserve tight head prop

Once, long ago. Not any more .

 

[RugbyReg]

Good on the Tahs, that is not the point here in any way. My point being: the Reds should have fought very, very hard to keep him. I know for certain that they barely fought at all.

.

Reds offered him a contract. He all but accepted it. The Force came in and offered him a contract and then he turned the Reds down. He then got cold feet about the Force because of some of the machinations over there, and came back and tried to accept the original offer from the Reds.

The Reds removed the offer, and fair enough too, and so Mack went hunting south.

Just because he wore the grey and blue for a year or two, doesn't make him the messiah. I keep speaking to people in Oz Rugby, and not just in QLD, who question his long term potential.

But he was good at school I guess.

 

[RugbyReg]

Reg said in the podcast a couple of weeks ago the seven out of the ten youngest super rugby debutants were Aussies.

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not quite. Of the 100 youngest players to reach 100 Super Rugby caps, 8 of the top 11 were Aussies.

 

[dru]

But he was good at school I guess.

Geez, Reg. If I dissed Others like that I'd get a quick expansion from someone like you. He actually wanted the best contract opportunity? Strike me pink, what a donkey. (?!!)

And for now, Jake is good at Super. I guess.

 

[emuarse]

^^^ Ulrich, yes they have been thrown in, but as far as I can see coaching pathways are a zillion miles ahead in RSA compared to Aus. Guys work through varsity 19s 21s before they hit pro in CC. And then to Super.

We go Premier, Super. Few of our Premier teams would rustle a sweat out of Currie Cup first division. In the Reds case the pathway for the assistants seems to have been Premier, ARU age group role, Super.

I like each of the guys in our coaching team, presentable friendly seeming blokes. Hope they pull it together, for us and them.

You don't recognize NRC then Dru? It was overdue when it finally was introduced, and is a real stepping stone as a number of young players appreciated last year when appointed to S18 squads.
Equally, it is an important step up fot coaching staff.
And it will only get stronger.

 

[dru]

You don't recognize NRC then Dru? It was overdue when it finally was introduced, and is a real stepping stone as a number of young players appreciated last year when appointed to S18 squads.
Equally, it is an important step up fot coaching staff.
And it will only get stronger.

Excellent point. Yes I definitely include NRC. It's an important step into pro rugby.

 

[Scrubber2050]

^^^^
gee Reg it sounds like the Reds spat the dummy and decided on Jake.

The proof is in the pudding.

Another example of bad decision making by Mr C and whichever coach was responsible (probably RG). Some people are accountable some are not

 

[Scoey]

Yes and no Scrubber. If it played out like Reg said then I'm ok with them withdrawing the offer. You can't have players agreeing to terms then taking a better offer but when that goes to shit coming back and wanting the original offer again.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Scoey
Didn't they set a precedent with Genia. He committed to the Force, then pulled the pin and re-signed with the Reds

And it depends whether the Reds were prepared to pay his "market" price.

 

[Happy to Chat]

Yes and no Scrubber. If it played out like Reg said then I'm ok with them withdrawing the offer. You can't have players agreeing to terms then taking a better offer but when that goes to shit coming back and wanting the original offer again.

Who is his agent?


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[USARugger]

Who is his agent?


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As long as it's not his father..

 

[Scoey]

Scoey
Didn't they set a precedent with Genia. He committed to the Force, then pulled the pin and re-signed with the Reds

And it depends whether the Reds were prepared to pay his "market" price.

Not really mate. An unproven 20yo vs at the time pretty much the best scrum half in the world. Genia has established his worth at the Reds and has been with them for years so deserves a bit more negotiating clout.
The Reds agree to that sort of negotiating with a new player they set a pretty low bar moving forward in the relationship with that player.

Just to be clear though, I don't really care what Mack did or how he allegedly did it, it's a tough market. I'm just saying how the Reds apparently dealt with it is ok by me.

 

[Scoey]

Who is his agent?

I have no idea.

 

[RedsHappy]

Reds offered him a contract. He all but accepted it. The Force came in and offered him a contract and then he turned the Reds down. He then got cold feet about the Force because of some of the machinations over there, and came back and tried to accept the original offer from the Reds.

The Reds removed the offer, and fair enough too, and so Mack went hunting south.

Just because he wore the grey and blue for a year or two, doesn't make him the messiah. I keep speaking to people in Oz Rugby, and not just in QLD, who question his long term potential.

But he was good at school I guess.

Needless to say, I have a history of MM's discussions with the Reds that varies from that. But let's not go there.

Whatever, it's very common for talented young sports guys - with or without agents advising them - to have ebbs and flows about what they should do contractually given various offers and then ultimately come back to base and make a final decision. At 18-19, you often can't easily assess what's best for your career and mind-changing is common and not automatically to be condemned.

To just - as you assert - pull the offer to MM from the Reds as you say they did is not at all necessarily sound judgment in the interests of team optimisation long-term, whether they were competitively irritated or not by alleged MM countenancing offers from other franchises.

And FFS Reg, I know you're in a form of chronic denial about the QRU's self-evidently appalling management and systems, but to jibe re my loose ties to the grey and blue as above and as though I am blinded by it is merely petty and childish, you need to raise your game and stop sulking.

At no time did I say or infer MM was 'a messiah'. MM was very talented in GPS rugby (his team was unbeaten all comp) and we have Lee Grant on these pages assessing him as the best back in the 2016 national U20s team and we have the Tahs recruiting him and thinking he may be good enough to run on as their 10 this weekend vs who else but the Crusaders! So my assessment and belief in the kid is hardly an outlier. Let's see how he goes.

I do hope your 'sources' who doubt MM's 'long term potential' are the lonely few that also assessed Jake McI in the same category (vs those who have elevated him way beyond this capabilities), with McI being a player that has not even shown 'short term potential' as Reds 10, let alone the long kind.

 

[RedsHappy]

Not really mate. An unproven 20yo vs at the time pretty much the best scrum half in the world. Genia has established his worth at the Reds and has been with them for years so deserves a bit more negotiating clout.
The Reds agree to that sort of negotiating with a new player they set a pretty low bar moving forward in the relationship with that player.

Just to be clear though, I don't really care what Mack did or how he allegedly did it, it's a tough market. I'm just saying how the Reds apparently dealt with it is ok by me.

Apparently.

 

[Scoey]

Yes. Apparently. As in I am only going by what Reg said above.

EDIT: You state that you know the facts but won't share them and expect everyone else to believe you for some strange reason.

I don't see why you felt it necessary to quote my post but. Your rebuttal to Regs post above would seem sufficient to demonstrate your position.

 

[Scoey]

And FFS Reg, I know you're in a form of chronic denial about the QRU's self-evidently appalling management and systems, but to jibe re my loose ties to the grey and blue as above and as though I am blinded by it is merely petty and childish, you need to raise your game and stop sulking.

But your continued jibes against anyone who doesn't wholeheartedly condemn the Reds administration being similarly blinded is different how?

Hello pot, this is the kettle.

 

[Braveheart81]

The next Reds under 20 flyhalf, Hamish Stewart might be a more promising than Mason. He's only a year behind.

Chasing Mason hard might have meant there was less chance of keeping Stewart the year after. It's hard to tell.

Clearly the Reds have made some pretty average choices with recruitment priorities in the last couple of years but it isn't certain that is continuing (although it may be).

Did the Reds necessarily keep McIntyre instead of pursuing Mason or did they opt not to chase Mason harder because it was decided that the priority was a year later with Stewart.

Maybe Stewart will be the next superstar Australian 10? Sometimes there is an element of luck involved. I think back to Phil Waugh becoming a Waratah and George Smith a Brumby. If they had finished school a year apart in the opposite direction, maybe that history would be the other way around?