Do you reckon the Reds should stop signing young players?
Do you think that would work out well for them in the long run?
Reds 2017
- Thread starter Scrubber2050
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Do you reckon the Reds should stop signing young players?
Do you think that would work out well for them in the long run?
wamberal
Phil Kearns (64)
I absolutely agree that all young players should play some club rugby, preferably for a struggling club.
If I were the ARU Supremo, there would be some changes made, I can tell you. And one of them would be that the young stars on the way up would be forced to eat some shite. Metaphorically speaking. They learn to do that across the dutch.
If I were the ARU Supremo, there would be some changes made, I can tell you. And one of them would be that the young stars on the way up would be forced to eat some shite. Metaphorically speaking. They learn to do that across the dutch.
Beer Baron
Phil Hardcastle (33)
Are we that different from NZ (the benchmark)? I don't think we fast track young "stars" any quicker.
formerflanker
Ken Catchpole (46)
May I add Steve Tuynman, aged 20 at number 8 in his debut test?
USARugger
John Thornett (49)
We definitely do, especially in the forwards. Average debut age of All Black forwards over the last 10 years is a few years older than us, basically mid-late vs. early 20's. Their squads are almost always far less bottom-heavy than ours regarding ratio of young:seasoned players.
Our young stars more often than not are not as talented or physically developed as theirs but are pushed at an even higher pace to the same level of play due to our lack in overall depth and "next JOC (James O'Connor)/KB (Kurtley Beale)/QC (Quade Cooper)" mentality some people seem to be stuck in.
Strewthcobber
Mark Ella (57)
As always there's a fair bit of context missing when we compare with NZ.
Kaylen Ponga has been signed for $3m aged 18. He's obviously an exception, but if we want to compete with league for a lot of these guys who have their choice of sport, we have to pay.
And our sport doesn't generate enough revenue to pay players unless they are involved with the Super teams.
So to keep them in the sport they have to have one of the limited spots in the squad
Kaylen Ponga has been signed for $3m aged 18. He's obviously an exception, but if we want to compete with league for a lot of these guys who have their choice of sport, we have to pay.
And our sport doesn't generate enough revenue to pay players unless they are involved with the Super teams.
So to keep them in the sport they have to have one of the limited spots in the squad
Beer Baron
Phil Hardcastle (33)
are we both using gut feel?? i did a very quick google search hoping for an age list of squads for a bit of excel nerdery but found nothing.
Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk
USARugger
John Thornett (49)
Yeah a bit - I was looking at All Blacks debut ages for forwards a few months ago and they were on average a bit older than ours but I'm forgetting the exact numbers. Most of them went through the NPC etc before ever going to Super which is generally the reason why - I'll find it in my post history later tonight.
I think it goes in cycles though. The All Blacks had a very experienced side for a long time and probably less younger debutantes. Now they've had a bunch of turnover and look at the age of some recent players to debut.
Fekitoa debuted at 22, Luatua 22, Lienert-Brown 21, Tuipulotu 22, Reiko Ioane 19, McKenzie 21, Ardie Savea 22.
I certainly don't think the average age of their Super Rugby players debuting is older than ours.
Tom Robertson debuted for the Wallabies aged 22, Hodge 21, Ala'alatoa 22, and Kerevi 22 in the last couple of years.
USARugger
John Thornett (49)
Here's the posts/thread I was referencing, you make an appearance there too Will 
http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/co...h-october-twickenham.17171/page-9#post-884649
Seems I forgot half of my own argument - it's more than that age/experience matrix of our players vs. theirs over the last few years when they debut is just out of whack for Australia.
http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/co...h-october-twickenham.17171/page-9#post-884649
Seems I forgot half of my own argument - it's more than that age/experience matrix of our players vs. theirs over the last few years when they debut is just out of whack for Australia.
USARugger
John Thornett (49)
Yeah rewatching the full Jags match now and McIntyre would not start for a 1st Tier American University/College team playing as lateral as he does.
Really does look like we have two real gems in Duncan and Perese though and I hope we can keep them around in the long-term because they are very talented - Duncan especially seems critically involved in many of the good things we do. I am repeatedly impressed by him nearly every game.
Perese's raw explosiveness is a joy to watch, he looks incredibly powerful. Early on in the game he got caught by a smart defensive read and had to take contact while spinning into the pass and catching it, still was going forwards when he went to ground in spite of this.
Whoever has been working with Duncan over his last few years of development (he has come such a long way, this is looking like a true player development fairytale) needs to sort JMac out if we are going to keep playing with him in the side. It's mind-boggling to me how two inside backs in the same side can show such drastic differences in application and execution of basic skills on attack.
Really does look like we have two real gems in Duncan and Perese though and I hope we can keep them around in the long-term because they are very talented - Duncan especially seems critically involved in many of the good things we do. I am repeatedly impressed by him nearly every game.
Perese's raw explosiveness is a joy to watch, he looks incredibly powerful. Early on in the game he got caught by a smart defensive read and had to take contact while spinning into the pass and catching it, still was going forwards when he went to ground in spite of this.
Whoever has been working with Duncan over his last few years of development (he has come such a long way, this is looking like a true player development fairytale) needs to sort JMac out if we are going to keep playing with him in the side. It's mind-boggling to me how two inside backs in the same side can show such drastic differences in application and execution of basic skills on attack.
Getwithme
Cyril Towers (30)
The thing I don't get about JMac is how much Premier grade rugby has he played? Is he better then the 10's running around there? I don't think so.
Surely after being involved in the last 2 season the reds could clearly see his deficiencies in straightening the attack and his inability to take the ball closer to the line except there has been seriously zero to no improvement. I'm all for young players, but if they aren't getting better over time, why are they here? Duncan P is the opposite. He was thrown into the deep end early on, realised he needed to go back and work on some skills in premier grade that he needed to improve and now he's a much better player for it.
Surely after being involved in the last 2 season the reds could clearly see his deficiencies in straightening the attack and his inability to take the ball closer to the line except there has been seriously zero to no improvement. I'm all for young players, but if they aren't getting better over time, why are they here? Duncan P is the opposite. He was thrown into the deep end early on, realised he needed to go back and work on some skills in premier grade that he needed to improve and now he's a much better player for it.
Strewthcobber
Mark Ella (57)
What's the record for premier grade or Shute Shield play-makers making the step up to Super rugby like?
I know we had that horror season around 2004 when just about everybody pulled on a jersey at 10, and they all kept getting injured, but across Australia is there much of a precedent around bringing in a more mature amateur v a full time (Young/inexperienced pro)?
And unfortunately Jake wont have had the oppoirtunity to play much Prems because he's been on reds duty basically full time. He's mostly done pretty well in the NRC
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
Looks like QLD's Mack Mason - discarded by the QRU - will play at 10 run-on for the Tahs this weekend:
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...ighth-for-crusaders-game-20170329-gv9l3k.html
RG and our esteemed QRU Rugby Department (run as it was by the ridiculously over-promoted Dan Herbert) knew all about recruitment, player selection, coaching etc so they fell in love with Jack McI and effectively dispensed with far higher potentials in Sam Greene and Mack Mason.
When we add this to the Gill and Hansen debacles (and numerous, dozens, more), the nuclear winter set forth by RG and his loving supporters on the QRU board continues to blow a bitter wind and degrade so much that was once good and prospering for fans and the code in QLD.
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...ighth-for-crusaders-game-20170329-gv9l3k.html
RG and our esteemed QRU Rugby Department (run as it was by the ridiculously over-promoted Dan Herbert) knew all about recruitment, player selection, coaching etc so they fell in love with Jack McI and effectively dispensed with far higher potentials in Sam Greene and Mack Mason.
When we add this to the Gill and Hansen debacles (and numerous, dozens, more), the nuclear winter set forth by RG and his loving supporters on the QRU board continues to blow a bitter wind and degrade so much that was once good and prospering for fans and the code in QLD.
The torpedo
Peter Fenwicke (45)
The only reason Gill left was because RG was retained when he was told RG was getting the chop. He tried to get out of the contract when Graham got the chop.
Chibba left because Cheika told him he needed to start every game to get a Wallabies jumper (he was rotating win Fainga'a @ the time and IIRC Saia was in good form at that point)
He got a better contract offer from the Waratahs and took it. I don't believe there was no contract offer from the Reds.
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