Where to for Super Rugby?

[Inside Shoulder]

There's no doubt that Australian super rugby teams have problems but given the lions just got beaten by the blues maybe everyone should ease up on the negativity.


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Probably should be in the unpopular opinion thread.
The present failure of the Lions cannot be permitted to excuse the ARU's performance in the last 6 months. That would be a very poor outcome.

 

[dru]

Probably should be in the unpopular opinion thread.
The present failure of the Lions cannot be permitted to excuse the ARU's performance in the last 6 months. That would be a very poor outcome.

Yes. But I will admit a certain Schadenfreude.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Yes. But I will admit a certain Schadenfreude.

I wondered what that feeling I had was

 

[One eyed pirate]

Probably should be in the unpopular opinion thread.
The present failure of the Lions cannot be permitted to excuse the ARU's performance in the last 6 months. That would be a very poor outcome.

I'm not sticking up for the ARU, they are a disgrace. I'm backing our super rugby teams including the Force and Rebels. NZ rugby teams are very strong at present and even the weakest nz super rugby team is beating the best from the UK. Our super rugby teams performances are weak especially against NZ, but that should not a reason provided by the ARU to cut teams.


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[wamberal]

The reason that teams are being cut has got nothing to do with the standard of our teams, it is all about what the host broadcasters want.



I wonder why so many people here are so divorced from simple reality.

 

[BLR]

The reason that teams are being cut has got nothing to do with the standard of our teams, it is all about what the host broadcasters want.

I wonder why so many people here are so divorced from simple reality.

And they signed an agreement until 2020 so they have no leg to stand on.

Simple reality is the ARU is facilitating this as they can get more money for less content for a few years. Greed.

 

[Leo86]

Ummm that SANZAAR had to check with broadcasters if they would allow the cuts and pay the same amount. So that says to me it wasnt the broadcasters advocating it and initially broadcasters wanted the last 3 to enter Super be the ones who are axed.

So my simple reality is how the fuck did the Force and Rebels even come up aside from other SANZAAR partners wanting it and the ARU failing in their roles

 

[TOCC]

The reason that teams are being cut has got nothing to do with the standard of our teams, it is all about what the host broadcasters want.

I wonder why so many people here are so divorced from simple reality.

Foxtel have said they wanted 5 Australian teams retained...
SANZAAR made an agreement on the tournament structure and then took it to the broadcasters.

But please, continue to tell us how we're so divocrced from simple reality...

 

[Gnostic]

Gnostic I am so certain that a decision won't be made by the 31st of July that I am offering you an avatar bet. The loser has to use the avatar until the decision is reached on whether to cut/merge/keep teams, or for the rest of 2017 (whichever comes last). Deal?

You want me to sacrifice Pink Floyd's Back Catalogue - perhaps the greatest Album cover of all time. Why not just ask me to become an England supporter instead.

I did also state that the decision would be made after the 31/07 and was asking for the odds on some version of what I posted.

 

[One eyed pirate]

The reason that teams are being cut has got nothing to do with the standard of our teams, it is all about what the host broadcasters want.



I wonder why so many people here are so divorced from simple reality.

If it doesn't have anything to performances, why aren't Sanzar asking NZ to lose teams!!!! the ARU has signed a bad deal and is being told what to do by sanzar/broadcasters, that's called 'the tail wagging the dog'. 'Simple reality' is that the ARU should not be told what to do by sanzar/broadcasters.


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[Boomer]

Update from The Force, just moments ago ...

The West Australian rugby community has been extremely vocal in their support of the Road Safety Western Force and in the fight to retain the pathway from grassroots to professional rugby.

The fight has been buoyed by the inclusion of local player and Future Force Foundation product Richard Hardwick in the current Wallabies squad. In fact, we have five Road Safety Western Force players and four products of the WA pathway in the squad, the most ever. The Road Safety Western Force 10’s team are on the way to Mauritius to defend their 2016 World 10’s title and five WA women have been selected for the Wallaroos squad, demonstrating the strength of the Rugby WA pathway.

In my last communication, I promised to keep you updated with further information, regarding our legal fight to remain in the Super Rugby competition.

You may have seen the Rugby WA statement yesterday announcing that the dispute with the ARU has been fast tracked through arbitration.
This means instead of the matter being heard in the Supreme Court it will now be heard by a judge, jointly appointed by both parties involved.
The arbitration process will not decide whether the Road Safety Western Force stays in the Super Rugby competition, the case will decide whether the Alliance Agreement is legally binding until the end of the 2020 season.
The decision to go to arbitration should not be viewed negatively, it is not an indication of our case being any more or less winnable. The Board is particularly concerned with the lack of clear direction for players, staff and supporters and the expedited opportunity provided by a firm arbitration date will be in everyone’s interest.
Thank you for your support. I hope you enjoy the International fixtures over the coming month and don’t forget to mark our next home game in your diaries - Friday, 7 July against the Melbourne Rebels.

Yours in rugby

Mark Sinderberry

 

[The torpedo]

You want me to sacrifice Pink Floyd's Back Catalogue - perhaps the greatest Album cover of all time. Why not just ask me to become an England supporter instead.

I did also state that the decision would be made after the 31/07 and was asking for the odds on some version of what I posted.

Ok nevermind.

I will say the odds of those words (or something similar is less than 5000-1

 

[GaffaCHinO]

I posted this on Twitter yesterday but I thought I would share it here also.

With all the talk about cutting a team I wanted to make the point that in over 100 years of Rugby in this country WA produced 1 Wallaby (to my knowledge) in John Welborn.

In the last 12 months WA has produced 3 (DHP, Godwin, Hardwick) with I'm sure more to come. I know it has been slow going but it shows that the pathways are working and that cutting the force would be a massive mistake.

 

[half]

Been thinking about our competitive sporting market and how it views international sporting teams. Last week Brazil V Argentina had a crowd of 95K, the Soccceroos two nights latter 30K.


Hockey, Volleyball, Basketball all huge international sports and yet they struggle badly in Australia for crowds and media space.

Cricket aside from England do we care about test matches maybe India today but leave aside England and we want the Big Bash or ODI.

League biggest matches are the SOO or state V state, and this is rated higher in league folk law and more important than international matches.

AFL well they have no internationals to speak of and even ditched the state v stare thing to protect their club competition. Ratings crowds, memberships indicate they got it right.

Netball gets so much media and media support yet womens Basketball was established a number of years ago, is the second biggest world women’s sport behind soccer and struggles in Australia.

Our media either believe or have researched that local is better.

The A-League crowds and ratings in the Asian Champions League are less than half the A-League competition.

To me as a nation our sporting interests are divided almost along state lines and only the cricket team especially when playing England, Soccer and Rugby have established broad based support more recently Netball you could argue join this small list. However aside from cricket the rest of us can’t get within a bulls roar of league and AFL.

I guess the point I am getting at the concept of Super Rugby is difficult to market in an Australian context where local and home state competitions seem to be important to the Australian sporting public.

We need Super Rugby revenue. Me thinks the SAers will all go to Europe and form the Pro 118 or 20 or 22 whatever, by 2020.

When we come out of our current issues, with less Australian sides, the difficulties in selling the concept of Super Rugby spread across 5 nations will be even harder.

I offer no solution as I can’t see one but do see a massive job when all this is over to sell Super Rugby to new people given the sporting nature of the Australian sports fans which to me seems local V local and state based.

 

[nightnday]

If it doesn't have anything to performances, why aren't Sanzar asking NZ to lose teams!!!! the ARU has signed a bad deal and is being told what to do by sanzar/broadcasters, that's called 'the tail wagging the dog'. 'Simple reality' is that the ARU should not be told what to do by sanzar/broadcasters.


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This article, https://www.alloutrugby.com/sa-teams-queue-for-pro12/ says everything about the ARU and how they are simply passengers in World Rugby and have no plan or idea. The SARU had already found a home for their teams, in fact 2 teams, in the expanded Pro 12 when they agreed to axe one of their sides from Super Rugby.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

This article, https://www.alloutrugby.com/sa-teams-queue-for-pro12/ says everything about the ARU and how they are simply passengers in World Rugby and have no plan or idea. The SARU had already found a home for their teams, in fact 2 teams, in the expanded Pro 12 when they agreed to axe one of their sides from Super Rugby.

I would be cautious about relying too much on that article

The Australian Rugby Union (ARU) faces legal action from the Melbourne Rebels and possibly the Western Force if one of those teams is cut from Super Rugby at the end of the current season.

Almost the reverse is the case: the Force have commenced legal action.

South African franchises are coming round to the idea that they might be better served in a different competition, happy to leave New Zealand and Australia to entertain each other.

If so - about which there is considerable doubt - this is almost certainly the best outcome for Oz rugby.

 

[Sauron]

Wayne Smith was writing about the same thing the other day. Would really throw a spanner in the works if 3 Saffer sides went north (probably a good thing for Australian Rugby, but surely the travel bookings for next season need to be made very soon?).

 

[Jon]

I posted this on Twitter yesterday but I thought I would share it here also.

With all the talk about cutting a team I wanted to make the point that in over 100 years of Rugby in this country WA produced 1 Wallaby (to my knowledge) in John Welborn.

In the last 12 months WA has produced 3 (DHP, Godwin, Hardwick) with I'm sure more to come. I know it has been slow going but it shows that the pathways are working and that cutting the force would be a massive mistake.

Not to mention the other wallabies that have come through the force. without the force there, some of these players - or other wallabies in that same time frame would not have been given the opportunity to play for an Australian super rugby team.

 

[Gnostic]

There's no doubt that Australian super rugby teams have problems but given the lions just got beaten by the blues maybe everyone should ease up on the negativity.





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Hello Matthew, not having played at professional level, my unqualified opinion is that one team's poor performance cannot be used to excuse another.

 

[Quick Hands]

What odds will I get for the following post 31/07?

The ARU and Rugby WA hold a joint press conference. The exact terms and proceedings of the arbitration hearing will remain strictly confidential.

The ARU and Rugby WA greatly regret the damage that has been done to Rugby in Australia from this protracted dispute and in hindsight it is apparent that this matter could have been handled better with more care to the sensibilities of all parties involved. However if we have to look for positives from this and we must moving forward, the passion and commitment fans, players and administrators have shown for Rugby has been overwhelming. It is with profound sorrow and regret that the ARU and Rugby WA have reached and agreement that the Force will not contest Super Rugby following the end of the 2017 season. This decision is not one that has been taken lightly and Rugby WA has come to see that for the long term growth and sustainability of Rugby in Australia this is the only path forward. Today Rugby WA and the ARU can announce that all player contracts will be honoured and where possible players will be given the option to relocate to other Australian Super Franchises with assistance for such costs. Furthermore Rugby WA will maintain its development program with full participation in the National Rugby Championship so that the continued production of future Wallaby stars that we have recently seen starring on the international stage continues. The ARU remains fully committed to Rugby in WA and when we have achieved a more stable financial state we look forward to the resumption of the Force in Super Rugby.



I would then expect a number of coaching and administrative staff to appear in ARU funded positions over the following 6 to 12 months. The case will be closed and no details of the event can be disclosed due to various non-disclosure agreements etc. Surely this scenario closely follows the Standard ARU Operating Procedures as historically shown to give a best outcome for the ARU.

Outcome for the ARU that is, NOT Australian Rugby.

So people, what odds?

Have you been going through Bill's waste paper basket Gnostic?