Where to for Super Rugby?
- Thread starter Quick Hands
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D
daz
Guest
The short answer to your question is yes, I'm ok with not knowing the details at this stage. I'm not even sure I am too worried about knowing the details in the future.
I guess my mentality right now is that if this shitfight has taught us anything, who knows what tomorrow will bring, so I'll enjoy it while I have it. I might not have it for long.
chibimatty
Jimmy Flynn (14)
Omar Comin'
Chilla Wilson (44)
Well billionaires do spend exorbitant amounts of money buying and propping up professional basketball/baseball/American Football/soccer teams around the world.
No point in having billions if you don't do cool and good things with it.
M
Moono75
Guest
There are still a lot of questions to be answered over the transfer of the Rebels licence from Cox to the VRU, and were the ARU complicit in assisting with this transfer (re Wayne Smiths article). Were any ARU board members aware of discussions/moves to alter the structure of the Super Rugby competition by culling teams prior to entering in to the alliance agreement with the Force to obtain their IP rights/licence? I suspect there should be some deep investigation made in this area.
I would have thought/hoped that any agreement would provide Rugby WA with the first opportunity to buy the licence back from the ARU should the conditions of the Super Rugby competition change and allow for a fair fight.
I would have thought/hoped that any agreement would provide Rugby WA with the first opportunity to buy the licence back from the ARU should the conditions of the Super Rugby competition change and allow for a fair fight.
M
Moono75
Guest
Article by Wayne Smith in the Australian
Western Force unwittingly played into ARU’s hands
How on Earth did the Western Force get themselves into this *ungodly mess?
It started not when the money ran out, but before that, in 2013, when they lost their Emirates naming rights sponsorship, worth about $1 million a year.
Force chief executive Mark Sinderberry spoke glowingly at the time of how front-of-jersey sponsorship was now available, but presently the oil and gas boom that had driven Perth real estate prices almost up to the level of Sydney began to recede. The Force began selling off their jersey piecemeal to sponsors, while all the while the money the club had stored away a decade ago began to be eroded. And finally, it was gone.
Then, last year, the club made what at the time was considered a smart decision, but one it quickly came to regret — it went to the Australian Rugby Union for a loan. It was, after all, a time-honoured practice, one that the NSW Waratahs and the Queensland Reds and, heaven knows, the Melbourne Rebels had followed over the years.
In record time, a week, the ARU came back to them.
“Yes, of course we can help. But let’s do it a little differently this time.
“Instead of us just giving you the money and you paying it back, we want to make you the poster child of our centralisation campaign.
“We want to move your accounting and ticketing and websites and things like that to Sydney, which should lead to a huge saving for Australian rugby.
“Wattya reckon?”
Now the Force, who admit they may have oversold their problem to get some ARU aid — especially the fact that they would be insolvent if they didn’t get it — thought about it and decided to go along with the idea. For the first time ever in their decade of existence, they’d actually be getting some help from head office.
Initially, it worked out well. Where once they used to read about it in the newspapers that Israel Folau had gone to the Tahs or Karmichael Hunt had been directed to the Reds — knowing they never stood a chance of getting them — now head office was working for them.
Local West Australian Curtis Rona was sent their way, so to Chance Peni. Billy Meakes was a godsend. And the ARU helped to select Dave Wessels as coach, which initially looked like it was doing it on the cheap, but which proved to be a masterstroke.
But that’s the way it always is when you do a deal with the devil. You think you’re dancing with Liz Hurley. Then the horns appear.
The phrase “good faith” appears some 50 times through the agreement they signed with the ARU in June last year, but it seems to have been in short supply in the spirit of the deal. Slowly rumours began to emerge that the national body was quietly working on plans to drop one of Australia’s five Super Rugby teams. Indeed, the very strong suspicion is being formed — sadly, retrospectively — that the very reason the ARU replied to the Force so quickly with the offer to buy them out was the opportunity it provided to be free to axe them in future. Gradually the moves to cull a team began to crystallise.
The broadcasters were sounded out. Initially they were not happy about paying the same money for less content but gradually they came around to the idea a 15-team competition restored sanity to Super Rugby.
A non-binding straw vote of the ARU directors was held on the possibility. The initial feeling in Australia was that if any teams were to be cut, it should be on a “last in, first out” basis, which would involve the Southern Kings, the Sunwolves and the Jaguares. That didn’t hold up under pressure.
Word came through that South Africa was prepared to cut two of its teams. Later that would be looked at suspiciously, after the Kings and Cheetahs touched down for a soft landing in the Pro12 in Europe.
ARU deputy director Brett Robinson and chief executive Bill Pulver, armed with instructions allowing them to be nimble in negotiations, were sent off to the SANZAAR meeting in London in March. There the South African offer was confirmed. It was also felt that Japan and Argentina, though presently a drain, could become valuable over time. New Zealand was hardly going to lose a team. That left Australia.
Events moved quickly from there. An ARU board meeting was held. The Force, Melbourne Rebels and Brumbies were nominated as fall guys but the Brumbies were never seriously considered. Nor was the logical suggestion of them merging with the Rebels.
It was always the Force the ARU wanted to axe. The rest, one always felt, were just back-ups, camouflage.
On April 22, 12 days after ARU chairman Cameron Clyne delivered his infamous 48-72 hours ultimatum and just as they were celebrating victory over the Kings, Western Force officials learned ARU chief operations officer Rob Clarke and the then chief financial officer Todd Day were flying to Perth to deliver the death blow at 8.30 the next morning. The Force immediately rescheduled the meeting until 4pm, basically to stuff up their travel plans, but also to buy time.
It wasn’t their fault they had to deliver the message but it went down like the proverbial lead-lined inflatable.
“See you in court,” were the parting words.
Since then, every ARU gesture and nuance have been replayed, all of them further convincing Force personnel that they were set up.
The ARU gave no heed to Andrew “Twiggy” Forrest’s 11th-hour entry, effectively dismissing it as last-minute grandstanding, even when he offered, as recently as last week, to ensure the Force remained debt-free up to the end of the broadcast deal.
The ARU, too, was dismissive of the “Own the Force” campaign, though clearly potential investors were waiting until they saw some clear air before adding to the $2.5m raised. No explanation was given as to why two *offers by the Force to buy back their licence from the ARU were rejected.
Nor was any explanation provided as to why the Rebels — who seemingly have solved their own financial woes, though they are yet to release any details — were let off the hook despite being a $17.5m burden on the ARU since 2011.
Since 2005, the Force have cost the national body just $5.5m.
Why was the ARU not held to account for its own blunders? Why did it not factor in the extra $4m it would cost for travel and accommodation to go to Japan and *Argentina?
Why was it not slated for losing the $1m NRC sponsorship because it did not honour a promise to introduce a similar scheme for women?
Why is the ARU so utterly determined to rid Super Rugby of the Force, while it is about to move into its new $20m headquarters at Moore Park?
Why? It did it because it could, because it was the simplest option.
Where is the carefully thought-out strategy in that?
Western Force unwittingly played into ARU’s hands
How on Earth did the Western Force get themselves into this *ungodly mess?
It started not when the money ran out, but before that, in 2013, when they lost their Emirates naming rights sponsorship, worth about $1 million a year.
Force chief executive Mark Sinderberry spoke glowingly at the time of how front-of-jersey sponsorship was now available, but presently the oil and gas boom that had driven Perth real estate prices almost up to the level of Sydney began to recede. The Force began selling off their jersey piecemeal to sponsors, while all the while the money the club had stored away a decade ago began to be eroded. And finally, it was gone.
Then, last year, the club made what at the time was considered a smart decision, but one it quickly came to regret — it went to the Australian Rugby Union for a loan. It was, after all, a time-honoured practice, one that the NSW Waratahs and the Queensland Reds and, heaven knows, the Melbourne Rebels had followed over the years.
In record time, a week, the ARU came back to them.
“Yes, of course we can help. But let’s do it a little differently this time.
“Instead of us just giving you the money and you paying it back, we want to make you the poster child of our centralisation campaign.
“We want to move your accounting and ticketing and websites and things like that to Sydney, which should lead to a huge saving for Australian rugby.
“Wattya reckon?”
Now the Force, who admit they may have oversold their problem to get some ARU aid — especially the fact that they would be insolvent if they didn’t get it — thought about it and decided to go along with the idea. For the first time ever in their decade of existence, they’d actually be getting some help from head office.
Initially, it worked out well. Where once they used to read about it in the newspapers that Israel Folau had gone to the Tahs or Karmichael Hunt had been directed to the Reds — knowing they never stood a chance of getting them — now head office was working for them.
Local West Australian Curtis Rona was sent their way, so to Chance Peni. Billy Meakes was a godsend. And the ARU helped to select Dave Wessels as coach, which initially looked like it was doing it on the cheap, but which proved to be a masterstroke.
But that’s the way it always is when you do a deal with the devil. You think you’re dancing with Liz Hurley. Then the horns appear.
The phrase “good faith” appears some 50 times through the agreement they signed with the ARU in June last year, but it seems to have been in short supply in the spirit of the deal. Slowly rumours began to emerge that the national body was quietly working on plans to drop one of Australia’s five Super Rugby teams. Indeed, the very strong suspicion is being formed — sadly, retrospectively — that the very reason the ARU replied to the Force so quickly with the offer to buy them out was the opportunity it provided to be free to axe them in future. Gradually the moves to cull a team began to crystallise.
The broadcasters were sounded out. Initially they were not happy about paying the same money for less content but gradually they came around to the idea a 15-team competition restored sanity to Super Rugby.
A non-binding straw vote of the ARU directors was held on the possibility. The initial feeling in Australia was that if any teams were to be cut, it should be on a “last in, first out” basis, which would involve the Southern Kings, the Sunwolves and the Jaguares. That didn’t hold up under pressure.
Word came through that South Africa was prepared to cut two of its teams. Later that would be looked at suspiciously, after the Kings and Cheetahs touched down for a soft landing in the Pro12 in Europe.
ARU deputy director Brett Robinson and chief executive Bill Pulver, armed with instructions allowing them to be nimble in negotiations, were sent off to the SANZAAR meeting in London in March. There the South African offer was confirmed. It was also felt that Japan and Argentina, though presently a drain, could become valuable over time. New Zealand was hardly going to lose a team. That left Australia.
Events moved quickly from there. An ARU board meeting was held. The Force, Melbourne Rebels and Brumbies were nominated as fall guys but the Brumbies were never seriously considered. Nor was the logical suggestion of them merging with the Rebels.
It was always the Force the ARU wanted to axe. The rest, one always felt, were just back-ups, camouflage.
On April 22, 12 days after ARU chairman Cameron Clyne delivered his infamous 48-72 hours ultimatum and just as they were celebrating victory over the Kings, Western Force officials learned ARU chief operations officer Rob Clarke and the then chief financial officer Todd Day were flying to Perth to deliver the death blow at 8.30 the next morning. The Force immediately rescheduled the meeting until 4pm, basically to stuff up their travel plans, but also to buy time.
It wasn’t their fault they had to deliver the message but it went down like the proverbial lead-lined inflatable.
“See you in court,” were the parting words.
Since then, every ARU gesture and nuance have been replayed, all of them further convincing Force personnel that they were set up.
The ARU gave no heed to Andrew “Twiggy” Forrest’s 11th-hour entry, effectively dismissing it as last-minute grandstanding, even when he offered, as recently as last week, to ensure the Force remained debt-free up to the end of the broadcast deal.
The ARU, too, was dismissive of the “Own the Force” campaign, though clearly potential investors were waiting until they saw some clear air before adding to the $2.5m raised. No explanation was given as to why two *offers by the Force to buy back their licence from the ARU were rejected.
Nor was any explanation provided as to why the Rebels — who seemingly have solved their own financial woes, though they are yet to release any details — were let off the hook despite being a $17.5m burden on the ARU since 2011.
Since 2005, the Force have cost the national body just $5.5m.
Why was the ARU not held to account for its own blunders? Why did it not factor in the extra $4m it would cost for travel and accommodation to go to Japan and *Argentina?
Why was it not slated for losing the $1m NRC sponsorship because it did not honour a promise to introduce a similar scheme for women?
Why is the ARU so utterly determined to rid Super Rugby of the Force, while it is about to move into its new $20m headquarters at Moore Park?
Why? It did it because it could, because it was the simplest option.
Where is the carefully thought-out strategy in that?
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
They're being run by a banker. Public opinion and the rights and needs of individuals and lesser beings aren't even in his mind.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
But if you are a billionaire, it's how you spend your discretionary income. You can go to a casino, go to the races, buy cricket, buy soccer, buy rugby etc.
Rugbynutter39
Michael Lynagh (62)
The can't take it with you but let's have some fun owning a sports team, buy some top notch players and play my own personal fantasy rugby!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Highlander35
Andrew Slack (58)
So the ARU is dirty, underhanded, and the Force was chosen to be cut because it was easier than acquiring another license.
Given that we knew all that already, is there anything new in there which suggests what the basis of the WARU's Legal Argument to stay, and the likelihood of success, given the arbitration was solely about the authority to cut, and not whether someone else would have been a better option.
dru
Tim Horan (67)
This would be a changing of the retoric. ARU/Clyne have stated from start to now that the decision was made on economic grounds.
Yes plenty of us see this as disengenuous and that the decission has been made on ease. And a follow up suspiscion that the ARU have been underhand for a long time in setting up the opportunity.
You would surely understand fans disappointment as this turns from opaque to clear. Most of us will question the business morality. Others still will question the legality.
Nothing unexpected there.
T
TOCC
Guest
And the hits keep coming, despite this early claim by Clyne that the pathways would remain in Perth, it's emerged the ARU have made plans to scrap the Spirit as well.
“Western Australia will retain an important place in Australian rugby and the ARU will continue to support youth development programs and the community game in the West,” Clyne said. “There will be a clear pathway for young Western Australian rugby players to reach the highest levels and represent the Wallabies.”
Nekminit
“Western Australia will retain an important place in Australian rugby and the ARU will continue to support youth development programs and the community game in the West,” Clyne said. “There will be a clear pathway for young Western Australian rugby players to reach the highest levels and represent the Wallabies.”
Nekminit
It is an obvious factor in the decision, if you are bleeding money and need to cut costs; spending as little as possible to do that cut makes business sense. Especially if the other option is paying/buying out someone
Rebels3
Jim Lenehan (48)
$4 million between the teams to travel to Japan and Argentina. That's 2/3 of the yearly ARU top up.
This is a clear indication why Super Rugby is busted and why it's not probably in Australia or South Africa's interests to continue in this debacle of a competition.
Then the reports about the NRC side in jeopardy now, makes me embarrassed to be an Australian Rugby fan atm.
This is a clear indication why Super Rugby is busted and why it's not probably in Australia or South Africa's interests to continue in this debacle of a competition.
Then the reports about the NRC side in jeopardy now, makes me embarrassed to be an Australian Rugby fan atm.
Killer
Cyril Towers (30)
There are other and better ways while looking to the future. Its appropriate you currently have John Eales name in your handle.
chibimatty
Jimmy Flynn (14)
I can't fathom the killing off of the Spirit too. Melbourne had a team in the old ARC when they had no Super franchise, so can we in the NRC. I don't understand the rush to kill the game off completely here in WA.
I would assume it is cost again, the eastern NRC sides can fly interstate on the day of the game and fly back that night. One of the big costs of the original ARC was hotels as they all flew in the days before, staying overnight etc.
It is the same as the model NRL lower grades use to keep costs down
Ignoto
John Thornett (49)
Someone should tell the Teams about AirBnB, I'm sure the locals will be thrilled to host some of the players and coaches.
Re Flights, maybe some of the juniors can replace the Stewardesses on the flight?
There's plenty of room to cut costs, the ARU/Clubs need to get creative!
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