Super Rugby Pacific 2025

[Tomthumb]

It's pretty much the entire 6 this year that have been there or there abouts - only the Crusaders have missed the finals once since Covid, and they've won it all whenever they've been there. Very clear separation in the comp between that group (Crusaders, Chiefs, Blues, Brumbies, Hurricanes and Reds) and the rest.

I'd say there was very clear separation between the Chiefs/Crusaders and everyone else

 

[Dismal Pillock]

It started strong and reverted to the norm. Almost like the three best teams have access to more money and the best talent… the aussie teams padded out their win columns in the 1st half of the season by playing one another and that died on its arse once they had to play the NZ teams

 

[Strewthcobber]

It started strong and reverted to the norm. Almost like the three best teams have access to more money and the best talent…

How do the Brumbies do it so consistently then?

 

[Dctarget]

I get why NZ dominate but why 'Saders specifically? What's so good in their water?

 

[Wilson]

I get why NZ dominate but why 'Saders specifically? What's so good in their water?

Ben Darwin has always put forward the cohesion theories here and how the Crusaders are about as perfect a setup as you could want - a smaller province and (until recently) a single feeder team to really concentrate talent and then historic success feeds back into that (lures talent in, keeps it together at higher levels, provides breathing room for bad seasons like last year, etc). Unless the NZRU gets serious about talent leveling and distribution I don't see it changing too much anytime soon, and even then I expect it might be some of the other Kiwi teams that are hurt more - Crusaders have just about always been there and there abouts while the rest of the NZ teams have shuffled around them.

 

[Dctarget]

Ben Darwin has always put forward the cohesion theories here and how the Crusaders are about as perfect a setup as you could want - a smaller province and (until recently) a single feeder team to really concentrate talent and then historic success feeds back into that (lures talent in, keeps it together at higher levels, provides breathing room for bad seasons like last year, etc). Unless the NZRU gets serious about talent leveling and distribution I don't see it changing too much anytime soon, and even then I expect it might be some of the other Kiwi teams that are hurt more - Crusaders have just about always been there and there abouts while the rest of the NZ teams have shuffled around them.

Yeah I don't get why that doesn't happen in Wellington or Dunedin either. Similar vibes to Canberra.

At least Canberra makes sense, small focused academy that is right next to a huge rugby catchment they can pilfer off.

 

[Derpus]

How do the Brumbies do it so consistently then?

Kinda good at stuff but not so good they can actually win a thing?

 

[Wilson]

Yeah I don't get why that doesn't happen in Wellington or Dunedin either. Similar vibes to Canberra.

At least Canberra makes sense, small focused academy that is right next to a huge rugby catchment they can pilfer off.

I think the Highlanders lost out early to the Crusaders and they've just never been able to consistently compete structurally (and financially) since. There's a lot of evidence that success begets success in competitions like this, particularly when there are limited levelling mechanisms like draft and salary cap.

The number of provincial unions that came together to make up the super rugby sides is a big one here - Crusaders had their initial leg up from being only a few unions with one dominant, while the others tended to have quite a few more constituent parts, with a lot more mouths to feed in them. That was then really cemented when the modern NPC was established 2006, and then Canterbury went on a decade long reign of terror. That may change in time now that success is being spread around a bit more at that level, but it's still 2 NPC teams for the south islander super sides, and 3-4 for the north, reducing their relative cohesion gains.

This is where Super Au may give us a decent leg up in time - single feeder teams drive cohesion much better than any split model (though 2 does still work pretty well if you need bigger top level squads). If we can get to 8-10 games a year for our sides we should start to really see the benefits roll through. It'll take a generation for that to really shine through though.

 

[Mick The Munch]

A good final for the casual observer - a question - why is the Final venue confirmed for the highest seed - seems an unfait advantage. Why not set at the beginning of the season - such as in the Prem, Heineken cup etc ?

 

[Wilson]

A good final for the casual observer - a question - why is the Final venue confirmed for the highest seed - seems an unfait advantage. Why not set at the beginning of the season - such as in the Prem, Heineken cup etc ?

There's no economic sense in choosing a 'neutral' venue at the start of the season given the geographical distribution of teams, and arguably there's no such thing as a neutral venue chosen so far in advance for super. Travelling overseas ends up being a massive burden so any final involving teams from two different countries would be arbitrarily uneven.