All Blacks vs Poms - 3rd test

[FrankLind]

I agree with the best lock combination, Retallick and Whitelock are #1 #2 locks in the world. But let's not kid ourselves with the rest of the team.

Not really sure if you are practicing that well-known art of kiwi-baiting or not.

Ben Smith one of the best FBSin the world (and has been for a few years)

Julian Savea best 11 in the world.

Nonu and Smith best midfield combo in the world (probably)

Cruden or Barrett - world class 10s, who is better exactly?

Aaron Smith there or thereabouts as best 9 in the world (depending on game plan)

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

McCaw has earned his dues to be worthy of the third test, as it's quite clear from watching him that although his effectiveness in open play as not as dominant as it was once, his workrate is still second to none in the AB team.

Robshaw over the last 3 years IMO has been one of the most under rated players in world rugby. I still can't fathom how he was left out of the lions tour. I know I'm rather glowing of the Pom's of late, it's getting under my skin. I'm just seriously impressed by them.

Should be a good game this weekend - we need to go mistake free to get the win I think.

Franklin - it's a new year, and the way we have played so far, it's hard to agree with many of your statements.

 

[Dan54]

Geez MR, I don't think Frank too far off
Ben Smith would have to be considered a pretty good 15
Not sure who is better 11 than Savea, but am prepared to be told
Nonu and Smith would have to still be one of top centre combos in world
And prepared to hear your thoughts on who are all the better 10s than either Barrett or Cruden, he didn't say they best just up there.

 

[FrankLind]

Franklin - it's a new year, and the way we have played so far, it's hard to agree with many of your statements.

Which ones are wrong in your opinion? Who should be there instead?

I wasn't aware a player's ability should be judged on just two games?

I am impressed by England too.

 

[cyclopath]

Geez MR, I don't think Frank too far off
Ben Smith would have to be considered a pretty good 15
Not sure who is better 11 than Savea, but am prepared to be told
Nonu and Smith would have to still be one of top centre combos in world
And prepared to hear your thoughts on who are all the better 10s than either Barrett or Cruden, he didn't say they best just up there.

Not far off, I'd agree.
15s - Ben Smith, Folau, Spiders Le Roux, the Pommy guy whose name I have just forgotten. For impact, not all round KPI-box-ticking I'd say Smith and Folau the 2 best consistently.
11s - Savea, yep. Dodgy haircut doesn't accrue enough WTF points to mark him down.
Centre combo - Nonu and Smith are hard to go past as there are few other well established combos with a lot of Tests under their belts. Bit different if you look at individuals at 12 or 13, but looking at combos is far more useful, because they don't all work together!
Barrett and Criden - I'm a Beaugan fan but I wouldn't put in the world top echelon yet; Cruden I would but he is not at peak form just now. He'll probably reach that about the time of the 1st Bledisloe, knowing you bloody Kiwis.
I'm happy with how the Wallabies are building, but I think the ABs will shed their rust by the RC, and we might get a little reality check. But England are a good unit, so not surprising they have put the ABs off their rhythm a bit.
Sorry if I went off topic a bit. Report this post to me if a problem.

 

[ChargerWA]

Yes because 2014 is 2009.

I agree with the best lock combination, Retallick and Whitelock are #1 #2 locks in the world. But let's not kid ourselves with the rest of the team.

Hmm, the proof of the puddings in the eating. Name a trophy the AB's don't hold that they're eligible to compete for.

 

[Bairdy]

Not really sure if you are practicing that well-known art of kiwi-baiting or not.

Ben Smith one of the best FBSin the world (and has been for a few years)

Not sure how you can say hes been one of the best fullbacks in the world for a few years when Israel Dagg has played exclusively for the ABs at 15. But agree that Ben Smith features strongly in the top 5 (possibly 3) currently.

Julian Savea best 11 in the world.

George North might have something to say about that. He doesn't have the luxury of playing in the top ranked team.

Nonu and Smith best midfield combo in the world (probably)

Based on the record for most tests played with each other, and their win/loss record, hard to disagree. Only experienced centre pairing that comes close is Jamie Roberts and Jonathan Davies

Cruden or Barrett - world class 10s, who is better exactly?

Sexton.

Aaron Smith there or thereabouts as best 9 in the world (depending on game plan)

Smith is there or thereabouts but Connor Murray of Ireland has been the form scrumhalf since 2013 for province, country and the Lions.

 

[Dan54]

Yep Bairdy & Cyclo, so Frank is probably right, and like me never said they were best (apart from Savea) just right up there, so really you just reinforcing what was said. Anyway I guess the All Blacks will just have to struggle through with the players names because there not really all that many options, well apart from 1 or 2.
We truly are well in the shit aren't we??

by the way I would add the Poms seem to have a couple of reasonable players too!!

 

[Muttonbird]

Hmm, the proof of the puddings in the eating. Name a trophy the AB's don't hold that they're eligible to compete for.

Bah. What are all the trophies when you have the world's best 6 in Tom Wood?

 

[en_force_er]

I think it's a stretch to say Smith is the world's best FB (or even a candidate) seeing as most of his ABs caps recently have been on the wing, with an equal smattering of games at 13 and 15. His best possy is probably 15 but he just hasn't played there internationally that often.

Is he the world's best utility back? Maybe, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is consistency personified and has been for much longer than Smith. It's certainly a discussion worth having with plenty of points on both sides.

However, like I said, saying Ben Smith is the world's best 15 is a stretch.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

Ben Smith one of the best FBSin the world (and has been for a few years) - he's played one game there, so suddenly he's one of the best fullbacks in the world? On one good game at test level? Folau, Le Roux, Brown been smashing teams apart consistently for a couple of years now.

Julian Savea best 11 in the world. - George North has been pretty handy of late & I distinctly remember Yarde scoring a great try last weekend - what did Savea do again?

Nonu and Smith best midfield combo in the world (probably) - and yet in game one Eastmond and Tuilagi thoroughly outplayed them.

Cruden or Barrett - world class 10s, who is better exactly? - Burns was better then either of them in game one, I don't rate Sexton personally, Foley was better in game one vs France.

Aaron Smith there or thereabouts as best 9 in the world (depending on game plan) - the same Aaron Smith that did box kicks last weekend for a combined gain of about 5 metres?


So far in 160 minutes of rugby this year, the All Blacks have played well for about 25 minutes tops. Mainly because England have been very good, but also because the team has simply looked shit. Excuse me for not going all gushing about how awesome they are at the moment, because they aren't. Yes, we've all seen them play well in the past, but the past is the past.

 

[en_force_er]

Yeah, I'd say Brown was the best FB in the world.

Probably the world's best under the high ball under pressure and always wins metres post contact (which is so important at test level where the chase line comes thick and fast and there's often no space out back for good kick options). Great player.

 

[FrankLind]

Ben Smith one of the best FBSin the world (and has been for a few years) - he's played one game there, so suddenly he's one of the best fullbacks in the world? On one good game at test level? Folau, Le Roux, Brown been smashing teams apart consistently for a couple of years now.

Julian Savea best 11 in the world. - George North has been pretty handy of late & I distinctly remember Yarde scoring a great try last weekend - what did Savea do again?

Nonu and Smith best midfield combo in the world (probably) - and yet in game one Eastmond and Tuilagi thoroughly outplayed them.

Cruden or Barrett - world class 10s, who is better exactly? - Burns was better then either of them in game one, I don't rate Sexton personally, Foley was better in game one vs France.

Aaron Smith there or thereabouts as best 9 in the world (depending on game plan) - the same Aaron Smith that did box kicks last weekend for a combined gain of about 5 metres?


So far in 160 minutes of rugby this year, the All Blacks have played well for about 25 minutes tops. Mainly because England have been very good, but also because the team has simply looked shit. Excuse me for not going all gushing about how awesome they are at the moment, because they aren't. Yes, we've all seen them play well in the past, but the past is the past.

Oh right. So you are judging their overall ability on the last 160 minutes of rugby only. Short-sighted I would suggest.

 

[eastman]

Yeah, I'd say Brown was the best FB in the world.

Probably the world's best under the high ball under pressure and always wins metres post contact (which is so important at test level where the chase line comes thick and fast and there's often no space out back for good kick options). Great player.

Brown the best full back in the world? Ask any team who they would rather face- Folau, Brown, Le Roux or Smith/ Dagg and the answer is going to be Brown every single time..

 

[eastman]

I really think the All Blacks missed the boat with Rene Ranger. If you guys had persisted with him and gave him some more game time at 13, I think he would be close to replacing Smith there and at least would have a succession plan. A Nonu/ Ranger centre combination would be a lot more threatening these days.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

No, I'm pointing out that now is hardly the right time to start lauding all our players as either the best, or up there with the best. If what we've seen so far this year are the best or up there with the best, rugby is in dire straits.

Qwerty's observation was a fair one, I thought.

 

[Muttonbird]

Can't agree with many of MajorRage's points except the one about the ABs playing well for 20 mins and England for 160mins.

Series over - 20 mins is all it took.

 

[Braveheart81]

I really think the All Blacks missed the boat with Rene Ranger. If you guys had persisted with him and gave him some more game time at 13, I think he would be close to replacing Smith there and at least would have a succession plan. A Nonu/ Ranger centre combination would be a lot more threatening these days.

I disagree with this sentiment.

You're saying the All Blacks should have selected Ranger more often previously when he was less good than Smith to keep him in the country.

Smith has been a far more complete player for far longer than Ranger. Ranger goes missing far more and has more deficiencies in his game. He also re-arRangers defenders which is a benefit he has.

They've now got Fekitoa coming through in the 13 jersey who could be incredible.

 

[Muttonbird]

I really think the All Blacks missed the boat with Rene Ranger. If you guys had persisted with him and gave him some more game time at 13, I think he would be close to replacing Smith there and at least would have a succession plan. A Nonu/ Ranger centre combination would be a lot more threatening these days.

Ranger chose his path, not the NZRU.

 

[Muttonbird]

Yeah, I'd say Brown was the best FB in the world.

Probably the world's best under the high ball under pressure and always wins metres post contact (which is so important at test level where the chase line comes thick and fast and there's often no space out back for good kick options). Great player.

Using Qwerty and MajorRage's rational, Brown is well down the list because he's been very poor in the last two matches.