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ARU Annual Report 2012 & Participation Growth

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Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
It was with a wry smile that I read in this morning's paper of the appointment of an Australian, Brett Gosper to head the IRB. Among other things, he said that he started playing rugby with Artarmon JRFC in the 6s back in the 1970s. One of the very clubs that I noted on the previous page which no longer exist.
The Old Artarmon Ants - green with a white V I think
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Do they publish this crap to allay our fears?
It would not be too hard, at a village level, to find out who the players are who play for both school and club: a box could be ticked in their registration and the database is then able to be interrogated, even if the schools don't have to register their players, to find out the net number of juniors.
Whatever their purpose and even if we are being treated like mushrooms surely they need to know the truth so they can "run" the game.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
Do they publish this crap to allay our fears?
It would not be too hard, at a village level, to find out who the players are who play for both school and club: a box could be ticked in their registration and the database is then able to be interrogated, even if the schools don't have to register their players, to find out the net number of juniors.
Whatever their purpose and even if we are being treated like mushrooms surely they need to know the truth so they can "run" the game.

The question is; are they interested in the truth?

As I understand it, there is no registration process for these 1 off gala days, the Development Officer in charge "estimates" the number of participants. I assume this involves counting the number of teams and multiplying by 20 or 22 or whatever.

Even if there were registrations for these events, they shouldn't be counted as full participants in rugby, because they're not. Put them in a separate column and don't add them into a total.

Same goes with Golden Oldies. Yes they are participants, but they shouldn't be counted along with boys or men in fully fledged competitions.

Sevens is again a different category. By all means record and publish the number of men and women playing sevens, but don't add them to the 15s participants because it's just a distortion of the figures.

As USArugby points out, once you do the above, massive expansion becomes contraction. I sincerely hope that he sends his analysis directly to Michael Hawker & Bill Pulver and a few journos. I for one would love to hear the response.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
./...snip.../..

As USArugby points out, once you do the above, massive expansion becomes contraction. I sincerely hope that he sends his analysis directly to Michael Hawker & Bill Pulver and a few journos. I for one would love to hear the response.

Here's a semi-rhetorical question - which journo would actually take the time to understand what USARugby has written, and then have the balls to pursue that with the ARU St Leonards Intelligensia?

It is not as if ARU was a publicly listed company where any disgruntled shareholder could ask a curly question at the AGM.

About the only mob that could grill ARU is Jooolias rabble or the AOC, and they are both full of sycophants and political spin meisters, and also probably too thick and preoccupied to ask the searching in depth questions.

EDIT:
There are allegedly some ARU interns and journos who browse here for material. There have been several attempts to use material directly from Gaggerland in the press from time to time occasionally uncredited - very unprofessional, unethical and as embarrasing as flick when discovered by another Gaggerlander.

What is the bet that the aforesaid journos and interns conveniently avoid reading this thread?
 

Sully

Tim Horan (67)
Staff member
While we love the acclaim (if that's the right word?) of being compared to the mainstream media it should be said we are in a different situation to most journalists. We don't have to publish everyday. we don't have a deadline. And we're not relying on this to pay the bills.

Having said that I couldn't do what Scott or Mike do no matter how long you gave me.
Or Matt's infographics

Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk HD
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
Here's a semi-rhetorical question - which journo would actually take the time to understand what USARugby has written, and then have the balls to pursue that with the ARU St Leonards Intelligensia?

It is not as if ARU was a publicly listed company where any disgruntled shareholder could ask a curly question at the AGM.

About the only mob that could grill ARU is Jooolias rabble or the AOC, and they are both full of sycophants and political spin meisters, and also probably too thick and preoccupied to ask the searching in depth questions.

EDIT:
There are allegedly some ARU interns and journos who browse here for material. There have been several attempts to use material directly from Gaggerland in the press from time to time occasionally uncredited - very unprofessional, unethical and as embarrasing as flick when discovered by another Gaggerlander.

What is the bet that the aforesaid journos and interns conveniently avoid reading this thread?
I couldn't see any rugby journalist running with it. It would have to be a freelance investigative reporter.

Maybe if we all pool our 8c a day then 4 corners will run with it.:)
 

USARugger

John Thornett (49)
Quick Hands

A friend of mine who used to live in Sydney and has some connections there tweeted to some journos but I doubt any of them, much less Pulverizer or Hawker would pay too much mind to an analysis of Australian rugby down by an American :confused:
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
To my mind, this thread and the implications of the data and its use, covers a far more important issue that the financial one. Yes the finances are important, but accountants and the ARU can use various devices to confuse and explain that most people will give up. And talking balance sheets isn't going to capture attention.

But, I think, everyone could understand what USA rugger and Michael Korolishin are saying. See :http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/why-youre-right-to-feel-skeptical-about-the-aru-participation-numbers/?utm_source=Forum list&utm_campaign=2dd07e701d-Anzac_day_email&utm_medium=email

The other day the Australian population hit 23,000,000 and we were told that we are the fastest growing western country - and yet rugby playing numbers are shrinking.

I'd hate to see this lost in arguments over money, as important as those money issues are.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Quick Hands

A friend of mine who used to live in Sydney and has some connections there tweeted to some journos but I doubt any of them, much less Pulverizer or Hawker would pay too much mind to an analysis of Australian rugby down by an American :confused:

Don't sell yourself short USARugger, The media will pick up on "sensation", regardless of the initial source.

Look at what happened with the Cooper Vuna/Kurtley Beale incident. It was "broken" via Twitter and picked up by G&GR, even though the original tweets were rather quickly taken down, the damage had been done. From there the mainstream media ran with it.

If the media mandarins think a story has legs, it will get the oxygen it needs.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
Quick Hands

A friend of mine who used to live in Sydney and has some connections there tweeted to some journos but I doubt any of them, much less Pulverizer or Hawker would pay too much mind to an analysis of Australian rugby down by an American :confused:

The bigger issue being I would hope such journos professional shame and embarrassment that they had not attempted any such analysis themselves, despite being paid to focus on rugby, along with a handful of other sports.
 

USARugger

John Thornett (49)
RedsHappy

Worst part is none of what I did there, have done for the other stuff that's in the pipeline, or will do in the future is too complex for most people to do. I've never taken a math course beyond second-year Calculus and none of the equations I've used couldn't be explained in a few moments.

If anything I'd think journos would avoid it because it seems like the current modus operandi amongst that group is not pissing off the ARU so they don't lose access to their invaluable inside information. I can't wait to be tipped off to what JOC (James O'Connor)'a next haircut will be. Growden reckons it'll be a tribute to the late Lionel Richie.

Hopefully nobody uses it without permission. I don't want to have to bring the full weight of the American legal system upon them, which in the case of an Australian media outlet using my work would amount to a sternly worded email XD
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Gaggerlands own George Smith has previously shown a rather astute ability to gather information on clubs and schools players to such an extent that I assumed he may be "one of the machine". In off line conversations he has denied Moore Park or St Leonards employment and I have no reason to disbelieve him. I am pretty sure that he is one of us - a simple rugby tragic. With a little bit of time, a couple of spreadsheets, access to Buddha, some old programmes and one can assemble an impressive amount of factual data about the state of Junior rugby.

The other George Smith has come to the the Rescue of the Ponies. Perhaps it is time for our George Smith to wade into this debate about player numbers?

Are you there George?
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
RedsHappy

Worst part is none of what I did there, have done for the other stuff that's in the pipeline, or will do in the future is too complex for most people to do. I've never taken a math course beyond second-year Calculus and none of the equations I've used couldn't be explained in a few moments.

If anything I'd think journos would avoid it because it seems like the current modus operandi amongst that group is not pissing off the ARU so they don't lose access to their invaluable inside information. I can't wait to be tipped off to what JOC (James O'Connor)'a next haircut will be. Growden reckons it'll be a tribute to the late Lionel Richie.

Hopefully nobody uses it without permission. I don't want to have to bring the full weight of the American legal system upon them, which in the case of an Australian media outlet using my work would amount to a sternly worded email XD


The bolded part is an argument that I have yelled loudly via the keyboard here for years. In the past I have likened the ARU's hold on the "independent" journo's to be Pravda like. Look at how often certain positive stories are broken/leaked in the lead up to a player being selected from left field. The ARU to my eye carefully prepares the rugby public by selectively leaking stories to their chosen outlets to prepare the way for their decisions. They make the decision and the Chosen outlets then offer up the usual supportive comment and talk up the prospects/reasons for the decision, and how any and all other comment is unreasonable and uneducated.

The ARU has run since the second appointment of JON a very tight ship with regard to media control, at no stage was any significant pressure brought to bear on them regarding the re-appointment of JON or Deans, or the secretive performance reviews. Now we are here and still no significant questions are being asked by the mainstream media. There can be no doubt at all that there is total control from the top down, or else we would have seen something leaked of the performance review at least.

One could almost admire the control that this board has exerted over all staff so that not the slightest hint of the content of various reports has emerged, yet we know Kurtley has gone paddle boarding with Robbie Deans the afternoon it happened. The Australian Labour party (and the Tony Abbott party for that matter) could definitely use the assistance of these experts in managing the flow of information to the concerned public.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
RedsHappy

Worst part is none of what I did there, have done for the other stuff that's in the pipeline, or will do in the future is too complex for most people to do. I've never taken a math course beyond second-year Calculus and none of the equations I've used couldn't be explained in a few moments.

If anything I'd think journos would avoid it because it seems like the current modus operandi amongst that group is not pissing off the ARU so they don't lose access to their invaluable inside information. I can't wait to be tipped off to what JOC (James O'Connor)'a next haircut will be. Growden reckons it'll be a tribute to the late Lionel Richie.

Hopefully nobody uses it without permission. I don't want to have to bring the full weight of the American legal system upon them, which in the case of an Australian media outlet using my work would amount to a sternly worded email XD
What Gnostic said. This mentality in the media bedevils good sports journalism everywhere.
By the way - Lionel Richie aint dead, mate!!!
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
The recently published 2012 NSWRU annual report may shed some light why the growth has been so pronounced.

The Quote is from the Community Rugby Section on Page 8 under the subtitle "STAKEHOLDER ENGAGEMENT" right at the start of their report:

"In 2012, the focus of all Development staff was on maintaining consistent contact and identifying new key contacts associated with the stakeholders in their hubs.
These include:
• Junior Club presidents and/or committees
• District Presidents and committees (Metropolitan)
• Zone President and committee (Country)
• Premier Rugby Clubs
• Regular Rugby schools (GPS, CAS, ISA)"



The focus of ALL Development staff seemed to be more on maintaining the status quo. Now Michael Doyle and his team do some great stuff and put in many hours of work for our game, but until the focus of NSW Community Rugby includes something about expansion or engaging with CHS, CCC, NSWPSSA and AICES, and increasing player participation numbers in junior club rugby then what hope do we have that there will be for any genuine and sustained increase in participation numbers in NSW?

Source: http://www.nswrugby.com.au/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=zVpWActICFo=&tabid=590
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
But..but..Schools(2)..
And the other thing with the "Schools 2" players that I had neglected to point out.

Let's suppose that little Johnny and little Israel come home from their local gala day, representing for example Lethbridge Park Public School (don't even know if it exists, but I've picked a random suburb in the Penrith area). So they've played in this one off event and come home to mum and dad and say "Gee I had a great time today, I'd like to play rugby"

The question is "Who do they play rugby for?" In the Penrith JRU, there are 3 clubs, one in the Blue Mountains, one in Windsor and the other at Rooty Hill. Blue Mountains and Windsor are reasonably isolated and remote areas and Rooty Hill is about 6 suburbs away.

Do the ARU expect mum and dad would spend and hour getting to and from training, when the nearest junior league club is probably 5 minutes away? There just isn't a reasonable option for these boys to play rugby, so what's the point in trying to get boys interested in rugby if you're not going to take the next step and help establish junior clubs for them to play at?
 
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