ARU Junior Gold Cup - National Junior Championships

[Hugh Jarse]

Nothing to do with JGC Sunday morning activities.

Some of us poor buggers were up on Sunday Morning much earlier than that watching a car smash occur in slow motion on our TV Screens.

I was attempting to make a connection between what happens in the Juniors one year influences what will happen in 8-10 years later in the Wobs.

 

[Shane Smeltz]

Nothing to do with JGC Sunday morning activities.

Some of us poor buggers were up on Sunday Morning much earlier than that watching a car smash occur in slow motion on our TV Screens.

I was attempting to make a connection between what happens in the Juniors one year influences what will happen in 8-10 years later in the Wobs.

Understand. Although an AB supporter, when the Wobs are not playing the ABs I am 100% a Wob supporter.

We was robbed.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Mate, we were robbed in the same way that someone posting on facebook that they won't be home on the weekend, but the keys to the house will be left under front door mat could be robbed.

We did it to ourselves. Poor skills all round.

One good sign from JGC, is that there are about 80 coaches and S&C staff being upskilled by HPU in the "Curriculum". It could take up to 10 years to see improvement filter up to Wobs /Soup level but there should be improvement of some description in the long term. There will be some ordinary coaches in the JGC, and there will be some who will improve their skills as a result of their participation, along with the kids.

There are some good blokes in HPU that have put a lot into this programme, and there are some good volunteers (unpaid) that will run the programme. While I think there are some fundamental flaws in the model, the HPU are doing their utmost to ensure that this does not become the 2013 equivalent of Flares and body shirts.

 

[fireball]

i hope jgc goes well. we can all criticise the process and complain about boys who should have made it etc but the effort and goodwill here is fantastic. it is a great intiative and every boy who gets selected will be a better player for it no doubt.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

i hope jgc goes well. we can all criticise the process and complain about boys who should have made it etc but the effort and goodwill here is fantastic. it is a great intiative and every boy who gets selected will be a better player for it no doubt.

Absolutely. Good luck to everyone selected. It's desperately needed. My only issue is that for me it's 12 years too bloody late.

 

[Hugie]

Agreed WCR. I'll add that the zones and districts MUST run their rep programs off the back of this, (to be additive and not loose momentum). My snouts tell me that the CHS is planning to work off the back of the JGC, so hopefully over the next couple of years we'll see them regain some competitiveness.
Looks like a big step up from last years JGS, well done ARU.
FYI the Illawarra squad had its first session last Sunday.

 

[S'UP]

We put a fair bit of pressure and expectations on little kids don't we.

Mind you looking at the size of many of them they are not that little physically. Intellectually they are the same sort of ratbags that we were when we were their age, looking to get into whatever mischief we could.

They need some down time to sit back and watch the clouds, the surf, or to listen to the crickets chirping in the trees. So what if another kid makes it into a rep programme, or if the process to select them was unfair in some way.

There is NO guarantee that JGC selection will improve HSC results, chances of selection into Aust Schoolboys or a professional rugby contract. The reality is that the majority will have a brief flirtation with being at the top of the rugby pyramid and then life will go on as per normal.

The kids know who is good and deserves a spot. They know which kids are on the way out losing form as the late developers finally start to physically catch up with the early physical developers. They generally know which kids are there because of Mum or Dads connections. They are remarkably resilient and can generally handle not making reps even if the process was flawed. There will be a new Xbox game out soon, or new page on facebook that they can fart around on.

Different kettle of fish for many parents. Many of these lack the resilience and ability to put things into perspective that their kids have. Every second of their kids lives must be controlled and quality moments. Any school teachers on this thread will know precisely what I am talking about.

Summer in Australia is a great time to go to the beach and chill out. Twice a week JGC training sessions could be seen as punishment, and restriction of freedom of movement. You know who will be doing all the driving don't you, and then you have to hang around, because by the time you get home it is time to go and pick them up again.

Yes we do expect alot from our boys and i can only speak for my boys but they wanted to be there, they want the extra training and exposure. I guess thats why I think the JGC missed the mark at little primarily at the 16/17 age group, the focus should be on talented boys who play club rugby and aren't exposed to the excellent coaching that is received at school level, be it GPS, Sports Highs, etc i undersatnd there are expections but you only need to look at the depth of the opens SJRU comp, it clearly needs work or something to keep the boys playing rugby.

 

[S'UP]

i hope jgc goes well. we can all criticise the process and complain about boys who should have made it etc but the effort and goodwill here is fantastic. it is a great intiative and every boy who gets selected will be a better player for it no doubt.

Agreed this process will only get better with time

 

[Shane Smeltz]

Just got a group email from Luke Thiessen saying the four Metro Sydney JGC teams have not been decided yet, in either age group, maybe tomorrow afternoon we'll find out (if we're lucky), or next week.

I suspect he has had a few parents emailing him and enquiring.

Too much talent he said, they need time to sift through the players sort it all out.

 

[Nessie]

Just got a group email from Luke Thiessen saying the JGC teams have not been decided yet, in either age group, maybe tomorrow afternoon we'll find out (if we're lucky), or next week.

I suspect he has had a few parents emailing him and enquiring.

Too much talent he said, they need time to sift through the players sort it all out.

Wish this was the case in the U15 Brisbane - Only 135 turned up to bulimba for 120 places, this was inclusive of U13's who were visibly struggling! The QRU were really slow getting on top of this - it all seemed very rushed. I know of boys who still didn't know they were trialling until 2 days before.

 

[Quakezone]

Wish this was the case in the U15 Brisbane - Only 135 turned up to bulimba for 120 places, this was inclusive of U13's who were visibly struggling! The QRU were really slow getting on top of this - it all seemed very rushed. I know of boys who still didn't know they were trialling until 2 days before.

Thanks Nessie will there be another round of Brisbane trials? It wasn't communicated very well I think a lot of boys missed out on being there for one reason or another...........Any idea when these teams get finalised

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Wasn't advertised all that well down here in Sydney either.

I am aware of at least one family that knows of the JGC from what has been posted on Green and Gold, and they go to an ISA School with a rugby programme, as well as playing junior club footy. The kid isn't a bad player and while not selected for the National 16's, probably stands a good chance of picking up a gig in one of the Sydney JGC squads.
Other families from that same school have only heard about JGC from word of mouth, on the back of being in Sydney U14's this year.

Like any new proposals, there will be things that they can do better.

With one (hopeful) successful year of JGC behind us in 2014, these little communication "bugs" will be ironed out for 2015 JGC.

 

[Nessie]

Thanks Nessie will there be another round of Brisbane trials? It wasn't communicated very well I think a lot of boys missed out on being there for one reason or another.....Any idea when these teams get finalised

No QZ - teams are announced COB Monday on BJRU website. I am sure over time this will become a good thing but only once the 3 clear players in this are working in partnership - Plus who really wants to be doing 3 preseasons a year?

JGC - Nov to Feb
Club and AIC - late Feb to April
GPS - April to June

The other thing I have silently been giggling at is in none of the collateral produced and the QRU that has been sent out to the parents has the figure of $660 been mentioned - I can only imagine the shock when that gets dropped on the parents just before Christmas and before club sign on.

I also know that 3 of the big private schools have pulled their players from being available.

 

[Quakezone]

No QZ - teams are announced COB Monday on BJRU website. I am sure over time this will become a good thing but only once the 3 clear players in this are working in partnership - Plus who really wants to be doing 3 preseasons a year?

JGC - Nov to Feb
Club and AIC - late Feb to April
GPS - April to June

The other thing I have silently been giggling at is in none of the collateral produced and the QRU that has been sent out to the parents has the figure of $660 been mentioned - I can only imagine the shock when that gets dropped on the parents just before Christmas and before club sign on.

I also know that 3 of the big private schools have pulled their players from being available.

Thanks Nessie - That's a lot of Rugby for these boys probably too much for some of them if they aspire to do anything outside of Rugby i.e Rowing, Cricket or just keep up with study then parents need to make good choices - that's a huge $$$$ outlay for some families at this time of year particulalrly as it looks to be squads of 30 and limited game time...some families I would imagine would have more than 1 boy in both age groups and if you add in 13's maybe 3....
Agree timing is a bit off, funny how schools see this as low priority

 

[Nessie]

Thanks Nessie - That's a lot of Rugby for these boys probably too much for some of them if they aspire to do anything outside of Rugby i.e Rowing, Cricket or just keep up with study then parents need to make good choices - that's a huge $$$$ outlay for some families at this time of year particulalrly as it looks to be squads of 30 and limited game time.some families I would imagine would have more than 1 boy in both age groups and if you add in 13's maybe 3..
Agree timing is a bit off, funny how schools see this as low priority

You have to ask the question is this a real "talent identification" process or a cash cow? What is the difference between this and the BJRU rep program and who is managing the players best interest all year round?

I know that the GPS boys (years 8,9 and 10) from end of July to September were training 5 times per week (rep monday, school and club 2 x per week each) and Playing twice a week (Sat for school and Sun for Club) This simply can't be in the best interest of the boys, I also don't believe that this program scheduled when it is, is within the best interest of the boys, schools or clubs.

True talent identification is only worthwhile when all the talent is available and not whether the talent can afford the cash or time.

 

[Quakezone]

You have to ask the question is this a real "talent identification" process or a cash cow? What is the difference between this and the BJRU rep program and who is managing the players best interest all year round?

I know that the GPS boys (years 8,9 and 10) from end of July to September were training 5 times per week (rep monday, school and club 2 x per week each) and Playing twice a week (Sat for school and Sun for Club) This simply can't be in the best interest of the boys, I also don't believe that this program scheduled when it is, is within the best interest of the boys, schools or clubs.

True talent identification is only worthwhile when all the talent is available and not whether the talent can afford the cash or time.

Agree Rugby union players who aspire to reach a good level need the pathways explained to them to enable them to make good decisions whether it be school or club, with so much Rugby its not unrealistic to say a boy of year 8, 9 or 10 could say enough is enough and lose interest. In terms of trials you would think that the boys had already been through enough talent identification through the BJRU rep season and City V Country and school football that if the selectors did not know by now who could make their teams then they are missing something... I tend to think this is just a cash cow to fill the coffers in the off season and judging by the numbers you say turned up to trial many people seem to agree.

 

[fireball]

All this criticism just baffles me. The ARU is offering a pathway it will identify talent and make good players better. If you're not into it or don't want to pay then don't do it. Other kids will grab the chance with both hands. As for trials, what is wrong with giving kids who may have slipped through cracks a chance to shine. I like trials it is all or nothing and it sorts out which boys have the desire and a few show ponies get shown up as well. Stop moaning.

 

[Quakezone]

All this criticism just baffles me. The ARU is offering a pathway it will identify talent and make good players better. If you're not into it or don't want to pay then don't do it. Other kids will grab the chance with both hands. As for trials, what is wrong with giving kids who may have slipped through cracks a chance to shine. I like trials it is all or nothing and it sorts out which boys have the desire and a few show ponies get shown up as well. Stop moaning.

Sorry if it sounds like moaning its not, just some feedback from a Brisbane perspective on how to improve the program so its accessible for everyone that's all...... However, being able to afford it or not being able to afford should definitely not be a criteria for selection, enjoy your day

 

[Gary Owen III]

The other thing I have silently been giggling at is in none of the collateral produced and the QRU that has been sent out to the parents has the figure of $660 been mentioned - I can only imagine the shock when that gets dropped on the parents just before Christmas and before club sign on.

In NSW the $660 was part of the stuff released on the JGC - but they did specifically mention that they didn't want anyone to miss out on the opportunity and they would consider assisting any "hardship" cases.

If this is a "money making" venture then i don't know if they have factored in exactly how many of these requests there may be. A lot of families in the west struggle to pay the $180ish for club regos or Reps - $660 is a lot bigger call on top of this.

Add to this "sponsorship" component that each centre was advised to chase to alleviate costs - i doubt that many centres will achieve "any" sponsorship in this environment. Thus more costs = less chance of turning a profit.

 

[Nessie]

All this criticism just baffles me. The ARU is offering a pathway it will identify talent and make good players better. If you're not into it or don't want to pay then don't do it. Other kids will grab the chance with both hands. As for trials, what is wrong with giving kids who may have slipped through cracks a chance to shine. I like trials it is all or nothing and it sorts out which boys have the desire and a few show ponies get shown up as well. Stop moaning.

Fireball - the trialling process you so enjoy is failed in the Brisbane system as it was by invitation only! Fact, this from a Brisbane point has been rushed through with little thought for the boys or parents who will be involved, the coaches have come from the BJRU system, many of them existing rep coaches so no change there.

It is a good idea, it does offer a pathway, but if the only guys who turn up are there due to invitation due to prior recognition then what is this new pathway?

We have too many organisations trying to pull the boys in too many different directions - at some point someone will lose and from my point of view it looks like the clubs. Already year 11 and 12 kids are told not to play club rugby by the AIC and GPS schools who in many cases have invested in these kids, will this creep into years 9 and 10?