ARU Junior Gold Cup - National Junior Championships

[John Brown]

Raises an interesting issue.
Given the complaints about selections generally and nepotism in relation to some selections I wonder how the ARU gold cup selection people would take the mere fact of selection in one of the JRU teams or, for that matter, the schools teams: i have heard bleating about them too.

Sitting on the fence over the last few years you can see the good players which raise to the top.

But then when there are no trials and players are selected by actual games.... this opens the cans of neoptism. In some supposed teams belonging to the wrong club, region or school has a negative effect to time on field from which selection is based.

An every kid must trial should be the way to go, comparing apples with apples. Skills one week and some trial games the next seems a better way to go.

 

[Tahspark]

Son said to me the other day a mate of his said he has supposedly been pre-selected in the JGC program even beofre the trials. So does this mean the sides that just played in the U16's Nationals get a free pass into the selected region? Or in the case of the North region team is already pre-selected.

I told my son that couldn't be right as this is the new initiative for the better, maybe he misunderstood what was said to him..

Your son's mate is correct, the ARU has decided that the boys who have just competed in the U16's Nationals do not need to trial for the Junior Gold Cup. I assume that this has probably been done on the ground of expediency and as @Gary Owen III said these players have already gone through a number of selection panels. The JGC selectors' eyes can be focused on the other boys who wish to trial.

There will undoubtedly be more than 74 spots up for grabs in Sydney by the other trialists given that for various reasons not all of the 46 players who made up the Juniors and Schools teams will be willing to participate.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Both these programmes are ARU
Surely a competition that asks to increase intensity and skill isnt going to do that by excluding what some have described as the best players (from the NGS) or is there conflict within as well
engagement in this should be compulsory for the NGS participants in this age group

JGC is targeting 14 (turning 15) and 16 (turning 17) year olds. NGS doesn't target Under 15's.

Occasionally they will have the odd 15 year old but the majority of kids in NGS are 16-18 year olds.

The 17 and 18 year old NGS boys would obviously be too old for JGC U17's.

In the olden days (ie last year) when there was NGS and JGS, NGS was 3 days a week commitment and JGS was one day a week commitment over spring/summer. NGS continued all year long, reverting to one day per week during rugby season, whereas JGS stopped in Autumn.

The drills and routines practiced are essentially identical, as is the knowledge and game tactics passed on. The NGS boys just do more of it, more often, so execution and improvements can be better monitored.

There is probably no reason why the one of the three weekly training days that the 10-20 U17 NGS boys do can not be done in conjunction with a U17 JGC training day, and therefore those U17 NGS boys could play in the National JGC games.

I was under the impression that the JGC was to encourage more kids into the Village Clubs at Under 17 and Under 15 level. It appears that this will not achieve that objective, because most of the (Sydney and Brissie) kids in the programme will be locked up in the Schools system over the Winter. Some Schools are reasonably ambivalent about their 15A's playing Village Club footy on Sundays, but it is a different story at Open age (Under 17's).

The vast majority of the 120 "best" Under 17 year olds in Sydney will be playing 1st XV rugby for their school, or will already be playing Colts (Non-Rugby Schools) on Saturday, and will not be able to physically back up and play Junior Village Club footy on Sunday.

Under 17 Junior Village Club footy in Sydney looks to be going down the gurgler, rather than being strengthened by this initiative. I hope I am proved wrong.

Conversely this will probably be a good shot in the arm for Country Under 17 footy.

 

[pilot]

Based on 2013 NSW Schools trials in the 16,s you had GPS, CAS, ISA, CCC, AICES and CHS. That is around 150 boys. Take away a few ISA, CCC, CHS and AICES boys who live outside metro Sydney you will have about 120 boys. Then add in the 2013 SJRU (best in Sydney selected from State Champs) rep teams North, West, South and Bah bah's and remove boys that played schools and you will have at least another 50. So if all the boys who played rep this year (and would probably consider themselves a chance) nominated for the 4 teams you would still have at least 50 of these kids that will miss out on selection. Consider all the other hopeful kids that played in their respective schools A's, B's or C's team or village club A's or B's comp who want to have a crack. Adding to that throw in a few leaguies that may have represented at Harold Matts level. So the selectors are going to have a tough time of it I would say and are bound to get some selections wrong. The cost will turn a few people off so it will be interesting to see how many they do get this first year?

 

[Delphy]

WA Junior Gold Cup Squads:

Under 15
http://www.westernforce.com.au/Team/Academy/U14s.aspx

Under 17
http://www.westernforce.com.au/Team/Academy/U16s.aspx

 

[Tahspark]

@Delphy based on the players we saw at the recent U16s nationals there is plenty of potential amongst the selected U17s squad.

Hope they continue to develop their skills and perform well in this inaugural JGC.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^ But not too well (v NSW centres)

 

[John Brown]

^^ But not too well (v NSW centres)

Just emailed out by ARU for Sydney trials;

Junior Gold Cup - Trials and Selection
Good afternoon all,
I just thought I would answer a few questions that I have had prior to the start of the Junior Gold Cup (JGC) this Sunday.

Do I trial for the U15s or U17s team?
The teams are based on your year of birth. If you were born in 1999 or 2000 you will be trialling for the U15s age group and if you were born in 1997 or 1998 you will be trialling for the U17s age group.

Who has been accepted to trial for the JGC?
The 1st trial for the JGC is open to anyone who sent in a nomination or anyone who would like to come along, it is open to all who full within the above ages. A 2nd trial will be held on the following Sunday and players will be notified as to their success in the week following the 1st trial date.

How will I be notified if I am successful or not?
You will be sent an email in the week following the trials letting you know if you were successful or not.

When and where are the trials?
The 1st trial is this Sunday the 27th October at Granville Park, Merrylands with U15 participants registration opening at 9am with the trial running until 12pm. The U17s registrations will open at 2pm with the trial running until 5pm.

If I made representatives or the Junior Gold Program this year do I need to trial?
The only players that do not need to trial are those who were selected and played in the recent U16s National Championships, either for U16 Sydney Juniors or U16s NSW Schools. Every other player need to trial

Do you need to be registered with a local junior club to trial for the JGC?
To trial for the JGC, YOU DO NOT NEED to be registered for a junior club

What happens if I can’t make any of the trials?
Those who cannot attend the trials due to previous commitments or injuries can still be considered for selection only when prior notice has been given. Let us know ASAP if you will be unable to attend either of the trial dates via email to your local centre rep...

How will the selected players be placed into one of the four Sydney teams?
Team selection will be based firstly on residence and then on need. Our aim is to have four evenly weighted teams in each age group
Where are the four Sydney teams based?
There are four centres based at:
1.North Harbour – North Shore and Northern Beaches
2.North West Sydney – Hills District
3.South Harbour – Eastern Suburbs and Sutherland
4.Western Sydney – Fairfield and Seven Hills (throughout Western Sydney)

If I am selected what is my financial requirement?
At this stage a levy of $660 will be required from each player. This levy will cover all apparel, competition travel and any other competition costs. However this levy may decrease depending on the obtainment of sponsorship

What if I cannot afford the levy?
We don’t not want to deny anyone from participating in the JGC and each case will be look at on a case by case basis.

When will I be required for training?
Training will be offered twice a week but has yet to be determined exactly when. Considerations will made if you have prior commitments when training has been schedule, this will need to be discussed with your team manager.

 

[Quakezone]

Just emailed out by ARU for Sydney trials;

Junior Gold Cup - Trials and Selection
Good afternoon all,
I just thought I would answer a few questions that I have had prior to the start of the Junior Gold Cup (JGC) this Sunday.

Do I trial for the U15s or U17s team?
The teams are based on your year of birth. If you were born in 1999 or 2000 you will be trialling for the U15s age group and if you were born in 1997 or 1998 you will be trialling for the U17s age group.

Who has been accepted to trial for the JGC?
The 1st trial for the JGC is open to anyone who sent in a nomination or anyone who would like to come along, it is open to all who full within the above ages. A 2nd trial will be held on the following Sunday and players will be notified as to their success in the week following the 1st trial date.

How will I be notified if I am successful or not?
You will be sent an email in the week following the trials letting you know if you were successful or not.

When and where are the trials?
The 1st trial is this Sunday the 27th October at Granville Park, Merrylands with U15 participants registration opening at 9am with the trial running until 12pm. The U17s registrations will open at 2pm with the trial running until 5pm.

If I made representatives or the Junior Gold Program this year do I need to trial?
The only players that do not need to trial are those who were selected and played in the recent U16s National Championships, either for U16 Sydney Juniors or U16s NSW Schools. Every other player need to trial

Do you need to be registered with a local junior club to trial for the JGC?
To trial for the JGC, YOU DO NOT NEED to be registered for a junior club

What happens if I can’t make any of the trials?
Those who cannot attend the trials due to previous commitments or injuries can still be considered for selection only when prior notice has been given. Let us know ASAP if you will be unable to attend either of the trial dates via email to your local centre rep.

How will the selected players be placed into one of the four Sydney teams?
Team selection will be based firstly on residence and then on need. Our aim is to have four evenly weighted teams in each age group
Where are the four Sydney teams based?
There are four centres based at:
1.North Harbour – North Shore and Northern Beaches
2.North West Sydney – Hills District
3.South Harbour – Eastern Suburbs and Sutherland
4.Western Sydney – Fairfield and Seven Hills (throughout Western Sydney)

If I am selected what is my financial requirement?
At this stage a levy of $660 will be required from each player. This levy will cover all apparel, competition travel and any other competition costs. However this levy may decrease depending on the obtainment of sponsorship

What if I cannot afford the levy?
We don’t not want to deny anyone from participating in the JGC and each case will be look at on a case by case basis.

When will I be required for training?
Training will be offered twice a week but has yet to be determined exactly when. Considerations will made if you have prior commitments when training has been schedule, this will need to be discussed with your team manager.

Thanks John does anyone know the criteria for Queensland? Trial dates etc....

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Coach, and S&C Coaching was done in Brissie on Saturday and Sydney on Sunday.

The forces are being marshalled.

If the rumours of ARU cutbacks are true, then this programme had better be a success, and I wouldn't be pinning too much hope on any reduction in fees for participants.

 

[Top Cat]

Using U17 as the competition, the 43 kids in Schools and Juniors teams will be squeezed into 4 Metro Centres, whereas the 23 NSW Country reps (which struggled to be competitive against the Schools and Juniors teams at Nationals) will be spread across 6 centres, further reducing the ability of the Country based JGC teams to win the Gold medal..

Hugh,

That is if you believe that NSW Country are better than the Newcastle Hunter team .

I also note that in post #145 you nominate the ACT as a team that should produce some cracking games, yet the Hunter beat them in a trial last year and finished 5th in the State Championships (I rate them as 4th) whereas the ACT finished 7th.

Hunter will lose at least three players that will be going to school in Sydney and two that have had enough of the nepotism and stupidity in the selection process. They will however have back one player that plays for NSW CHS as opposed to NSW Country, another that has been out since March due to injury and a couple of players that made other NSW Schools sides yet didn't make Hunter or NSW Country this year. I will keep you posted on how well I think they will go.

I would have to agree with you that there should be more JGS centres in Sydney, maybe two more? The Country centres however present an issue as as there may only be a handful of players in each centre with the potential to play at JGS higher level. Those with the ability may not get the recognition they deserve when they play against much stronger teams but and there is no way that you can combine these centres as travel distances make regular training impossible and that is the key factor.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

On the money @Top Cat.

The tyranny of distance in country drives (pun intended) one to establish more centres to reduce the travel requirements for participants, particularly if it is 2 days per week. In reducing travel, more centres need to be established. This has two effects:
1. More kids get exposed to "elite" development opportunites than would otherwise be available to them if it was strictly on merit. This can be good as a late developing diamond can be unearthed that may otherwise have flown under the talent scouts radars.

2. The overall base skill level in the regional centre teams will be less than the more concentrated centres. This will probably lead to some rather one sided scorelines.

ACT competitiveness is largely determined by the composition of their opponents. They can generally keep a rep squad together throughout the teenage years with not many kids "locked up" by the school system at Open grade as happens in Sydney. ie ACT U16 generally struggle vs Sydney Juniors U16, but that cohort remains together at U17, whereas Sydney Juniors U17 is often missing a stack of their rockstars who don't play club in U17.

This new regime - time will tell. Many 1st XV's are now doing preseason rugby over the summer period, as well as their normal rowing and athletics sporting committments. I can see quite a few of these lads deciding to stay with school and not doing Jnr Gold Cup. If that is the case, then relatively speaking the ACT (and the stronger country centres will be competitive.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Hugh,

That is if you believe that NSW Country are better than the Newcastle Hunter team .

I also note that in post #145 you nominate the ACT as a team that should produce some cracking games, yet the Hunter beat them in a trial last year and finished 5th in the State Championships (I rate them as 4th) whereas the ACT finished 7th.

Hunter will lose at least three players that will be going to school in Sydney and two that have had enough of the nepotism and stupidity in the selection process. They will however have back one player that plays for NSW CHS as opposed to NSW Country, another that has been out since March due to injury and a couple of players that made other NSW Schools sides yet didn't make Hunter or NSW Country this year. I will keep you posted on how well I think they will go.

I would have to agree with you that there should be more JGS centres in Sydney, maybe two more? The Country centres however present an issue as as there may only be a handful of players in each centre with the potential to play at JGS higher level. Those with the ability may not get the recognition they deserve when they play against much stronger teams but and there is no way that you can combine these centres as travel distances make regular training impossible and that is the key factor.

I agree. There's a region missing from the 4 listed. One that has produced a plethora of RL talent and could do the same for Rugby. That being the South West of the City.

 

[The Incredible Plan]

On the money @Top Cat.
This new regime - time will tell. Many 1st XV's are now doing preseason rugby over the summer period, as well as their normal rowing and athletics sporting committments. I can see quite a few of these lads deciding to stay with school and not doing Jnr Gold Cup. If that is the case, then relatively speaking the ACT (and the stronger country centres will be competitive.

It may not be up to the players. The schools themselves may prevent boys from participating. Not sure if it's correct, but did Scots allow their pupils to participate in the junior gold squads last year? If not, then it seems unlikely that they would allow them to participate in a longer more intensive program this year.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Coach, and S&C Coaching was done in Brissie on Saturday and Sydney on Sunday.

The forces are being marshalled.

If the rumours of ARU cutbacks are true, then this programme had better be a success, and I wouldn't be pinning too much hope on any reduction in fees for participants.

I'd like to think that they'd look to rationalise before outright scrapping something like this. Some centre may prove viable while others may not, they may choose to close one and move it to another location or not at all. I think 24 centres is quite a lofty goal. If they decide to say, move one of the country set ups spots to Sydney and then reduce it to say 18 centres, I think that would be much more palatable than just scrapping the concept.

Though, it would be great if it's a success and they keep all 24 centres. I think some may be underestimating the drive many of the country boys have when it comes to playing the game. They will surprise you. It would also be a huge advantage for us over League in Country regions. One of the major issues country people have with any sport is the lack of investment in their sporting community. I know this isn't a huge cash injection but for many this says that we take you seriously, here's a real pathway that offers the coaching and conditioning elements that you crave.

Most people in the country are realistic and will accept that travel will be a factor but unlike some in the city they'll gadly do it if they see it as a game taking their son seriously and offering the opportunity to chase something he love's without having to leave home for school in Sydney.

 

[the baz]

It may not be up to the players. The schools themselves may prevent boys from participating. Not sure if it's correct, but did Scots allow their pupils to participate in the junior gold squads last year? If not, then it seems unlikely that they would allow them to participate in a longer more intensive program this year.

yes they were allowed to participate

 

[Nos Tradamus]

who are the Sydney coaches?

 

[Getwithme]

It seems as if no Brisbane players have been contacted and no email or trial dates have been seen at all.
Im unsure of QJRU and BJRU's thinking at the moment

 

[Hugh Jarse]

@Getwithme,
I suspect that a similar ruling will apply for at least 46 of the Qld/Brissie U17 JGC boys from Qld Red and Qld White U16's this year at National Champs:

If I made representatives or the Junior Gold Program this year do I need to trial?
The only players that do not need to trial are those who were selected and played in the recent U16s National Championships, either for U16 Sydney Juniors or U16s NSW Schools. Every other player need to trial.

 

[Getwithme]

@Getwithme,
I suspect that a similar ruling will apply for at least 46 of the Qld/Brissie U17 JGC boys from Qld Red and Qld White U16's this year at National Champs:

thanks but I am mainly talking about under 15's