ARU wants to select who coaches

[Linebacker_41]

I can understand the central contracting model, particularly when you are trying to tie all aspects of the national code to foster success at the international level.

Whilst the contracts are centralised in NZ the selection process is usually conducted with open and transparent selection panels with the most amount of representation coming from the franchise. A 5-member panel made the selection for the Blues and the process including who would present to the panel was an open affair, from memory the Chiefs had a similar panel.

The success of the Chiefs this year is a testament to the NZ system. However Dave Rennie has come through the age representative system. Many of us have been frustrated that this position hasnt been given to a developing coach in Australia so it is a bit rich for Nuci to come in and say he wants change for the selection of the Super Rugby coaching roles in Australia.

The reality is that our history for the Super Rugby franchises is too different to implement the NZ high performance system here in Australia. We need an Australian approach designed for the Australian playing culture and the competing forces of state vs country. This applies to both the players and the coaches, furthermore it needs to include referees too.


I do see a positive to this though!! I am hopeful that the turmoil created in Australian rugby (both results and articles like today's) will result in sweeping reforms. It feels like momentum is building and soon the required need for change will swamp the opposing forces.

 

[BPC]

How about the ARU begin with baby steps, like appointing a National Scrum Coach and possibly a National Strength and Conditioning Coach who each consult with the provincial teams to make sure the players are all on the same page when elevated to the national team.

Lets start by pinching Mike Cron and offering him double what the NZRU is paying.

 

[wamberal]

I remember many years ago when Dick Marks was appointed National Coaching Coordinator, I think that was the name, the idea was that he would lay down basic guidelines for the Australian style of play, to be followed by coaches at all levels of the game.

I would not agree with compulsion, but surely, surely, we need to play to our strengths, and strenghten our weaknesses, and this has to start at schoolboy and club level. All coaches should have a common set of bedrock principles, to be utilised wherever possible and practical. Local variations are inevitable, but for goodness sake let us learn to make the most out of the talent we have.

 

[FiveStarStu]

No.

 

[daz]

Slightly off-topic here, but there has been lots of comment recently about players, coaches, grassroots, etc, etc. Not much has been great news.

So here is my question: Are there any positives in Oz rugby at the moment?

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

 

[Brumby Jack]

So here is my question: Are there any positives in Oz rugby at the moment?

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

We don't play NZ again until October....

 

[Brumby Jack]

The big problem here once again is politics and those not looking beyond the end of the day or more concerned about what's in it for them.

At National level we have a coach who is struggling but is seen as the golden child by those that matter and their shit don't stink. The heir apparent is frowned upon by those that matter and even winning 100% of games wouldn't be considered enough.

At state level there is the Waratahs that got rid of one their most successful coaches (McKenzie) and now can't even employ one. There is even talk they'd make a play for McKenzie but would you go back to a place where you weren't wanted? Even the coach they are courting is unsure of going there due to past dealings.

Sometimes egos and other bullshit needs to be put aside for the better of the game....

 

[louie]

Why don't they tell players where they have to play too? that way one year we can have a really good brumbies team and the next a good force and so on. That way everyone gets a chance to feel good.

ARU needs more to more professionalism at club level.

 

[Lee Enfield]

The idea has merit, but I don't trust the ARU to implement it soundly. What is abundantly clear is that there is little to no communication between the Wallabies and the S15 teams. This is evident in the lack of basic skills and fitness of players. Some franchises are worse than others, but all are guilty to varying degrees.

The franchises should still be for the most part, self governing, but there needs to be a basic sheet of music all franchises work off, handed down from the Wallabies. This sheet of music should be formulated in consultation with the Super franchises and handed out at the start of the pre-season training. It should be constructed in a way to benefit the national interest of Rugby, covering the fundamentals of the game including strength and fitness. THe Super franchises are still free to run the team and create their game plans etc, but there should be a unified approach on the fundamentals of the game, Kicking, catching (especially the high ball), tackling, scrums, restarts and fitness.

There is no excuse for players at an international level being unable to perform the bread and butter tasks. If the Super franchises can't be trusted to coach and perfect the fundamentals, including fitness, then they should being given a national training plan covering them. Robbie Deans may be to blame for the team selections and tactics, however he should not be having to deal with or coach players who simply cannot perform school boy stuff to a professional standard.

Until the coaching staff at Super and national levels learn to work together on the basics, we are going to keep seeing this type of shit rugby. The movie Cool hand Luke sums it up best " What we have here, is a failure, to communicate"

 

[dangerousdave]

A cynic could think a role such as overseeing the whole Aus coaching structure could be a "nice way" of pushing Robbie out of the Wobs role.

Having been a Deans defender up until the Ireland game I do think there is one thing he is good at and that is spotting and nurturing talent. If 'overseeing coaching structure' also allowed him to be spotting the next Bieber or Genia then I'm all for it.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Having been a Deans defender up until the Ireland game I do think there is one thing he is good at and that is spotting and nurturing talent. If 'overseeing coaching structure' also allowed him to be spotting the next Bieber or Genia then I'm all for it.

Would they not have emerged if he wasn't around?
.

 

[It is what it is]

The idea has merit, but I don't trust the ARU to implement it soundly. What is abundantly clear is that there is little to no communication between the Wallabies and the S15 teams. This is evident in the lack of basic skills and fitness of players. Some franchises are worse than others, but all are guilty to varying degrees.

The franchises should still be for the most part, self governing, but there needs to be a basic sheet of music all franchises work off, handed down from the Wallabies. This sheet of music should be formulated in consultation with the Super franchises and handed out at the start of the pre-season training. It should be constructed in a way to benefit the national interest of Rugby, covering the fundamentals of the game including strength and fitness. THe Super franchises are still free to run the team and create their game plans etc, but there should be a unified approach on the fundamentals of the game, Kicking, catching (especially the high ball), tackling, scrums, restarts and fitness.

There is no excuse for players at an international level being unable to perform the bread and butter tasks. If the Super franchises can't be trusted to coach and perfect the fundamentals, including fitness, then they should being given a national training plan covering them. Robbie Deans may be to blame for the team selections and tactics, however he should not be having to deal with or coach players who simply cannot perform school boy stuff to a professional standard.

Until the coaching staff at Super and national levels learn to work together on the basics, we are going to keep seeing this type of shit rugby. The movie Cool hand Luke sums it up best " What we have here, is a failure, to communicate"

Yep the basics
We have players;
- in our key backline positions that can't pass both ways.
- in our back 3 who can't kick properly on their preferred foot, let alone accurately with both feet.
- in the forwards that cannot tackle front on
- in our forwards who tackle with arms and don't know how to hit with shoulders or use leg drive.
- in the backs who can't catch and pass in the one movement without bringing the ball to their body
- in key inside back positions who don't understand the concept or benefits of running straight.
- who can't/won't pass off the ground playing half back
- elected as captains who have no idea of how to build on-field relationships with refs
- who are simply not strong or fit enough to compete at their chosen level.

The best coaches have players that can consistently execute the most basic of skills with pace and precision when under pressure and fatigue.

How do our players rate in skill execution even without pressure or fatigue?
- Kick off goes out on the full
- Crooked throw in 1st line out of game
- Kick off side of boot in early minutes
- Replacement prop can't hold his 1st scrum up
- Winger makes a backward loop run to get onto preferred (only) kicking foot.

Forget the fancy stuff, get the basics right.

 

[waratahjesus]

I dont have a problem with it is Implemented properly.

My only concern is, being number 2 in the world and obviously looking at new Zealand with envy, are we just going to copy there system word for word and hope we catch up or can we take it into account then actually get a proper review to tailer it to a system that would not only work well for Aus rugby but put us ahead of the kiwis.

 

[Ruggo]

Sounds good in theory but I don't trust the ARU to administer it.

 

[Scotty]

That may well be true in business and in the economy in general, but I don't think it is ultimately true for a sport like rugby that has at its core a country v country competition. Someone or something needs to have a mind to the overview to ensure that the interests of the country are kept in mind whilst making day to day decisions.

And if the person in charge isn't doing a very good job? Then they serve to stuff not just one team, but the whole lot.

I don't subscribe to the theory that all teams within a country have to have their players doing similar things so that the national team is a success. Only works in the sense of making sure the guys are up with their S&C, but even if they aren't, they shouldn't be selected for national honours.

NZ aren't the best in the world because of direct influence of the NZRU. They are the best because of a) the physical advantages of some of their athletes, b) NZ lives and breathes rugby meaning almost every promising athlete is exposed to it from an early age, c) the living and breathing leads to very strong competition throughout all grades and ages, better preparing players for national honours. These blokes are already well ahead of their AU counterparts before they get to super rugby.

 

[Bowside]

I think this is a brilliant idea - but I have serious doubts about the ARU's ability to implement it effectively.

I don't think it will lead to a totally homogenous style of play as some are suggesting. Instead I think it will lead to a greater consistency of core skills and general fitness of players. I also think it will result in greater managerial accountability for the provinces - so that we dont get situations like the reds in 09, brumbies in 2011 and waratahs in 2012.

Australian rugby is currently at the lowest point it has been since the late 70's. The ARU needs to get the house in order if the code is to prosper in the future.

 

[qwerty51]

Australian rugby is currently at the lowest point it has been since the late 70's. The ARU needs to get the house in order if the code is to prosper in the future.

What's that based on?

 

[p.Tah]

Forget the fancy stuff, get the basics right.

if I recall correctly that is what Andy Friend attempted to do in preseason in 2011 at the Brumbies and it was one of the reasons the senior players revolted.

 

[Bowside]

What's that based on?

I think it depends on how you look at it really. Sure things have improved significantly since rugby went pro, but when you compare rugby's growth to that of League, AFL and soccer, we're not doing too well at all.

There is a real possibility that abc will cut the shute shield coverage next year, and the rugby news might stop printing as well. Crowds at super rugby games have fallen in pretty much every state except for queensland.

I dont mean to be a merchant of doom or anything, I think Australian rugby's best days are still ahead of it, but I also think the market is more competitive than ever and rugby is starting to fall behind.

 

[louie]

if I recall correctly that is what Andy Friend attempted to do in preseason in 2011 at the Brumbies and it was one of the reasons the senior players revolted.

Australian Rugby Players (the pro ones) are too arrogant to just focus on the basics. In their own minds they're too gifted for that.