Australia v England

[Joe Blow]

Heard Cheika on ABC radio this morning. Missed who it was, but someone came to him on Monday to report the incident and to ask if action would be taken. Cheika also claimed that there have been discipline issues coming to the fore and he is taking action to stamp it out. Make of this what you will.

Looks like he’s lost them or is losing them at the least. @vidiot - If they are playing to a certain “shape” and results are not coming then I am sure that all involved are disheartened and become frustrated. It seems like Cheika is reluctant to change shape and game plans.

 

[Quick Hands]

I would have thought AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) a cleanskin.

Kurtly on the other hand, has form.

Must be more to this than they are reporting.

And if Chieka didn't know for that long, how did it leak out at all.?

.But if we piece together the day in question, it can't have been any more than a fleeting visit.

The game against Wales kicked of at 5.20pm local time, so it would have finished about 7.15-7.30pm. From what I know of what happens after tests, it would have been at least 8.30pm, probably closer to 9pm (or maybe later) before the team bus left the ground. So they wouldn't have even got to the hotel before 9pm, probably later.

Assuming that the events are being reported accuratly then it's a storm in a tea cup. If we've been fed a watered down version then history suggests that the cover-up will claim more victims than the original breach.

I hope for the sake of team management that they've been truthful about this.

 

[Quick Hands]

Looks like he’s lost them or is losing them at the least. @vidiot - If they are playing to a certain “shape” and results are not coming then I am sure that all involved are disheartened and become frustrated. It seems like Cheika is reluctant to change shape and game plans.

He's not reluctant, he simply refuses to even consider any modification to the run at all costs philosophy.

 

[Ignoto]

.But if we piece together the day in question, it can't have been any more than a fleeting visit.
.

I’m not buying it being just a “visit”. They knew the rules and if they just wanted to say hello, there’s no reason to go back to ones bedroom. Have a drink in the hotel bar or restaurant instead.

 

[Quick Hands]

I’m not buying it being just a “visit”. They knew the rules and if they just wanted to say hello, there’s no reason to go back to ones bedroom. Have a drink in the hotel bar or restaurant instead.

I assume that you've read all of the previous posts before making this comment? If you had, you would have noticed that I made the same comment about rules. You would also have noticed that I qualified what nyou have quoted by saying: -

Assuming that the events are being reported accuratly then it's a storm in a tea cup. If we've been fed a watered down version then history suggests that the cover-up will claim more victims than the original breach.

Your response implies that I have said almost the polar opposite of what I actually have said over the pat 2 or 3 pages.

If you are going to only quote part of a post, please put it in context.

 

[formerflanker]

Oh the irony. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is brought into the term to mentor younger players......

 

[A mutterer]

.But if we piece together the day in question, it can't have been any more than a fleeting visit.

The game against Wales kicked of at 5.20pm local time, so it would have finished about 7.15-7.30pm. From what I know of what happens after tests, it would have been at least 8.30pm, probably closer to 9pm (or maybe later) before the team bus left the ground. So they wouldn't have even got to the hotel before 9pm, probably later.

Assuming that the events are being reported accuratly then it's a storm in a tea cup. If we've been fed a watered down version then history suggests that the cover-up will claim more victims than the original breach.

I hope for the sake of team management that they've been truthful about this.

I'm pretty sure that wallaby fitness levels and lack of stamina and staying power have recently been raised by former coaches.

A quick visit would seem to confirm this.

 

[The Honey Badger]

.But if we piece together the day in question, it can't have been any more than a fleeting visit.

The game against Wales kicked of at 5.20pm local time, so it would have finished about 7.15-7.30pm. From what I know of what happens after tests, it would have been at least 8.30pm, probably closer to 9pm (or maybe later) before the team bus left the ground. So they wouldn't have even got to the hotel before 9pm, probably later.

Assuming that the events are being reported accuratly then it's a storm in a tea cup. If we've been fed a watered down version then history suggests that the cover-up will claim more victims than the original breach.

I hope for the sake of team management that they've been truthful about this.

FFS, haul them in and berate them for being idiots and fine them a match payment or $10k to show you mean business.

Front the media and say there was a minor breach of team protocol and the players involved have being counselled and fined. End of story, both are avaible to play.

Or else it was way more serious and that was never going to wash.

 

[Quick Hands]

Oh the irony. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is brought into the term to mentor younger players..

Although some people have a short memory, or pehaps a selective memory. Beale has had his well-publicised issues off field, but let's not forget that AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) was part of the late night drinking crew which Link had to stand down all those years ago.

le plus ça change le plus le même chose.

Five players – the experienced front-rowers Benn Robinson and Tatafu Polota-Nau, the loose forward Liam Gill and the wide men Ashley-Cooper and Cummins – have all been stood down from international business in Edinburgh and will in effect serve a one-match ban. Robinson’s fellow prop Paddy Ryan has been dealt a similar punishment, but will instead miss the final game of the tour, against Wales on Saturday week, because without him, the Wallabies would be short of numbers for the Scotland game.
Nine other tourists have received warnings, either written or verbal – a clear sign of McKenzie’s determination to assert some authority over a group of players who have worked unusually hard to earn a reputation for dodgy off-field behaviour over recent months. The coach will have been particularly unamused by Ashley-Cooper’s involvement, given the Sydneysider’s status as a senior player with 90 caps.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...sion-before-victory-over-ireland-8946853.html

 

[The Honey Badger]

.

If we've been fed a watered down version then history suggests that the cover-up will claim more victims than the original breach.

Usually a coach when Kurley is involved.

 

[Quick Hands]

Usually a coach when Kurley is involved.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has similar history (see post 229)

 

[The Honey Badger]

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has similar history (see post 229)

Sounds like a run of the mill Rugby tour Fivesome.

 

[Namerican]

Personally I think the players are trying hard, but you can tell from the body language that they're discouraged and morale is low. Even Pocock and Hooper.

 

[dru]

Personally I think the players are trying hard, but you can tell from the body language that they're discouraged and morale is low. Even Pocock and Hooper.

It would be bizarre if morale wasn’t low.

I’m with those of the view that it is not the cattle nor the fitness. At least the cattle are not currently the substantive issue and fitness has largely been addressed. Injury rate seems excessive but not surprising as they have “upped the fitness ante. Tick to the coaching there.

For me the big issue is rugby analysis and tactics. The world of top class rugby is changing and it is tougher. The coaching is adapting and changing around this. But they are slower and less skilled than the top nations. From there they resort to increasingly left of field solutions. Some of which work and give them hope. But mostly it’s a flop.

 

[Up the Guts]

Oh the irony. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is brought into the term to mentor younger players..

Seems to be a real lack of self-awareness on his part. You've been parachuted back into the side and you go and flaunt the rules risking your place in the side while guys like Paenga-Amosa, who would give their left nut to be on the tour, are left at home.

 

[Lorenzo]

I get that culture and effort are important, and this seems to be a recurrent focus (at least from the dribs and drabs that percolate out at interviews).

But.

The messages that come out from the players and coaches are all about trying harder, when from my comfortable seat on the couch it appears that effort isn't the problem. Pocock and Hooper are the most prominent but across 1-22 they look to be trying pretty hard.

The problem isn't effort but their shape and execution. And the pool of available players, which we can't really afford to self-sabotage.

On the other hand, removing Beale from the 23 isn't really self-sabotage at this point. He has performed poorly in almost all of his appearances this year and we havent seen any of the "go nuts when the game opens up" that most people seem to hope for. How many line breaks has his partnership with Foley generated this season? He certainly isn't there for his defensive prowess.

 

[KOB1987]

So there's a breach of team protocol and all of sudden it's reminiscent of the Link/Beale/Patson saga (of which we still don't know the full details). Maybe the protocol was that they can't take females back to their rooms while and tour and they had to leave the hotel bar by 10pm or something. I don't think Cheika would orchestrate a cover up.

We still don't know what's happened to Tupou though, perhaps that one is more serious.

 

[Lorenzo]

Seems to be a real lack of self-awareness on his part. You've been parachuted back into the side and you go and break the rules risking your place in the side while guys like Paenga-Amosa, who would give their left nut to be on the tour, are left at home.

Well put. I don't know how other people feel about this but frankly I don't think AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) should be there at all. People on this board said they'd happily pick him if he excelled at Super rugby next year, and you can't argue with that, but he's been given a spot despite not playing top shelf provincial footy since early 2017. And he wasn't exactly Christian Cullen when he left here, either.

Also, what kind of rose coloured glasses are we viewing his career through anyway? Yeah he played 400 tests but we hardly filled the trophy cabinet during that period.

 

[KOB1987]

I don't think anyone is vouching for AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to be seriously considered for the RWC squad until we see how he goes next year, for this tour though considering the circumstances, it's understandable.

 

[Lorenzo]

It's possible that this was used internally as cause for dropping Beale instead of his form, when the latter is the real reason. And AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is collateral damage.