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Australia v England

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Derpus

Jason Little (69)
I’m not saying I wouldn’t prefer it. I’m saying I can’t see Cheika going that way. What do I know though.

I will say IMO Cheika is between a rock and a hard place. Combination is about as important as player ability. The most settled combo he has is Foley & Beale. Would I prefer him to pick To'omua & Kerevi. Absolutely. Do I think they would be seamless against England. Absolutely not. For the last test of the year do you rr

Is it a problem if his own making - well, yeah - to an extent. But I really can’t blame him for the dearth in 10s in Australian rugby and I also think he could justify backing Beale up until the last 5 months or so.
Beale's form fell away at the start of the RC. He's a confidence player (as so many of our players are). We got pumped by NZ and then he got forced to 10 where he would inevitably perform poorly.

The bloke needs a break and some Super rugby to get his mojo back. I don't see any benefits in playing him against England.
 

Joe Blow

Peter Sullivan (51)
Probably not. I would suggest that Foley will start and probably KB (Kurtley Beale) as well which leaves the bloke who is most suited to test footy on the bench.
If we can shut England down in the first half we will have a pretty good shot. Having to hide half of our backline will once again prove to be a bit of an issue.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
In these tight, hard contests at the top level, it's very difficult to win without a solid tactical kicking game - particularly when exiting the 22. Employing the run at all costs plan has been proven to be unsucessful at this level - the All Blacks recognise this and judiciously use long kicks and short kicks into the corners to build pressure and long kicks to touch from their 22.

To'omua is the only 10 option that can fulfil this role (but I accept that it's highly unlikely that Cheika will pick him).

I think that the team has unfortunately evolved week by week into a bit of a mess - Genia the only backline player unanimously agreed to be a certain starter in his position.

The end of the season can't come quickly enough and one hopes that Cheika can indulge in some reflection in the offseason. There's a lot that I like about him as a coach, but the shortcomings are fairly obvious and his assistants don't inspire any confidence that they can ameliorate Cheika's deficiencies. (And I don't think Cheika should be sacked as I don't think it would achieve anything this close to RWC 19)
 

Brumby Runner

David Wilson (68)
I’ll give it a roll. Mind, this one will be decided at the coal face.

9 Genia
10 To'omua
11 DHP
12 Kerevi
13 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14 Naivalu
15 Folau

Bench
Phipps
Foley
Beale/Banks

I'd like to see that, but definitely Banks on the bench.
 

Brumby Runner

David Wilson (68)
I don’t reckon there is any chance both Beale & Foley will he left out.

And that will be primary reason the England backs are likely to run in multiple tries as the Wallabies backline again shuffles all over the place to accommodate either one or both of them.

We are unlikely to see another workable defensive effort if To'omua doesn't play 10. And then to have Kerevi/AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) in the centres would mean all players just stay in their own spots in both defense and attack. We might even see another top tackling effort by Hooper if he isn't always patrolling the backline covering for one or other of Foley or Beale.

That backline, or one very similar to it, could be the foundation of a much more competitive effort against the SDs.
 

Hawko

Tony Shaw (54)
That backline, or one very similar to it, could be the foundation of a much more competitive effort against the SDs.


I am on record as wanting To'omua at 10, Kerevi at 12, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 13 and Beale at 11/15 so in one sense I I can agree with you.

BUT! This would require our forward pack to match it with the Soap Dodgers pack. I think that whatever pack we put out there will be dominated, just as whatever pack we put out against NZ this year got dominated. A number of our best are playing poorly at the moment - TPN, Coleman and Hanigan come to mind and several of the others are playing average. To beat this English team, that came within two points of beating NZ, every one of our forwards would have to play out of their skin. Hands up anyone who is confident of that based on the last month!

Designing backlines is a lot of fun and lots of people have different views. But the chosen backline will only influence how many we lose by. The result will be determined by players 1-8 and 16-20 and based on our performances so far I have zero confidence we can even break-even. So fiddle all you like at the margins, this game has a 95% chance of being just another loss. And that is not good for our once-proud Wallaby reputation.
 

Joe Blow

Peter Sullivan (51)
I am on record as wanting To'omua at 10, Kerevi at 12, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 13 and Beale at 11/15 so in one sense I I can agree with you.

BUT! This would require our forward pack to match it with the Soap Dodgers pack. I think that whatever pack we put out there will be dominated, just as whatever pack we put out against NZ this year got dominated. A number of our best are playing poorly at the moment - TPN, Coleman and Hanigan come to mind and several of the others are playing average. To beat this English team, that came within two points of beating NZ, every one of our forwards would have to play out of their skin. Hands up anyone who is confident of that based on the last month!

Designing backlines is a lot of fun and lots of people have different views. But the chosen backline will only influence how many we lose by. The result will be determined by players 1-8 and 16-20 and based on our performances so far I have zero confidence we can even break-even. So fiddle all you like at the margins, this game has a 95% chance of being just another loss. And that is not good for our once-proud Wallaby reputation.

I agree with most of that but a backline that can tackle offensively and push back the Poms will help put Pocock and co on the ball and our forwards on to the front foot. Our main issue against quality sides has been that we ship too many points. Often we score enough although have not been doing that consistently of late either. So why play an attacking inside backline that is suspect in defence that is not scoring points?
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
And that will be primary reason the England backs are likely to run in multiple tries as the Wallabies backline again shuffles all over the place to accommodate either one or both of them.

We are unlikely to see another workable defensive effort if To'omua doesn't play 10. And then to have Kerevi/AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) in the centres would mean all players just stay in their own spots in both defense and attack. We might even see another top tackling effort by Hooper if he isn't always patrolling the backline covering for one or other of Foley or Beale.

That backline, or one very similar to it, could be the foundation of a much more competitive effort against the SDs.

Hooper expends a huge amount of energy covering for the backs. If you remember it was Hooper who stopped us going down 0-7 early against Italy by making a tackle in the corner (and the guy's foot just hit the touchline before the ball was grounded)

Honestly, I cringe whenever I see Foley defending in the tramtracks at the lineout. It would be embarrasing in Sydney club 4th grade let alone at international level. For all his undoubted skill with ball in hand, he can't kick tactically and needs to be protected in defence. No doubt his ability with ball in hand is what excites Cheika, but there is more to the game than running around with the ball in your hands. The sooner Australian rugby comes to grips with this the better.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
I am on record as wanting To'omua at 10, Kerevi at 12, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 13 and Beale at 11/15 so in one sense I I can agree with you.

BUT! This would require our forward pack to match it with the Soap Dodgers pack. I think that whatever pack we put out there will be dominated, just as whatever pack we put out against NZ this year got dominated. A number of our best are playing poorly at the moment - TPN, Coleman and Hanigan come to mind and several of the others are playing average. To beat this English team, that came within two points of beating NZ, every one of our forwards would have to play out of their skin. Hands up anyone who is confident of that based on the last month!

Designing backlines is a lot of fun and lots of people have different views. But the chosen backline will only influence how many we lose by. The result will be determined by players 1-8 and 16-20 and based on our performances so far I have zero confidence we can even break-even. So fiddle all you like at the margins, this game has a 95% chance of being just another loss. And that is not good for our once-proud Wallaby reputation.

The only hope we have in this game is the fact that the Wallaby players give full commitment in every match. In all the core skills of the game and tactically, we come second.
 

Up the Guts

Steve Williams (59)
To beat this English team, that came within two points of beating NZ, every one of our forwards would have to play out of their skin. Hands up anyone who is confident of that based on the last month!

I don't disagree with the rest of your assessment but I don't think the English coming close to NZ is a particularly good metric to measure our chances of success against. I feel with Barrett at fly-half NZ are a whole lot more vulnerable against NH teams that don't provide the counter attack opportunities that the faster looser style of the Wallabies and Pumas does. In contrast, I think our defensive patterns are a lot more adept at countering the structured style of the NH teams as the barn dance actually has time to get set. We certainly blunted the Irish attack reasonably well and we actually nullified one of their core strengths, the kick chase, because we had the right men positioned in the right places.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
I don't disagree with the rest of your assessment but I don't think the English coming close to NZ is a particularly good metric to measure our chances of success against. I feel with Barrett at fly-half NZ are a whole lot more vulnerable against NH teams that don't provide the counter attack opportunities that the faster looser style of the Wallabies and Pumas does. In contrast, I think our defensive patterns are a lot more adept at countering the structured style of the NH teams as the barn dance actually has time to get set. We certainly blunted the Irish attack reasonably well and we actually nullified one of their core strengths, the kick chase, because we had the right men positioned in the right places.

All the NH teams do what they do well. They play well to their strengths and England have plenty of firepower in attack too.

I like your optimism, but we're going to need to play out of our skins.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
At least our boys will be more familiar with the random penalty generator than England will be. :)

Referee​
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Jaco Peyper (South Africa)

Assistant 1​
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Glen Jackson (New Zealand)

Assistant 2​
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Alexandre Ruiz (France)

TMO​
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Marius Jonker (South Africa)
 

Up the Guts

Steve Williams (59)
All the NH teams do what they do well. They play well to their strengths and England have plenty of firepower in attack too.

I like your optimism, but we're going to need to play out of our skins.

Not saying we will win but I think our game is much more suited to running the NH sides close than NZ.
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
Not disagreeing with anything above, but our defence has been excellent on tour thus far.

I'd hope to see it continue. It's more of a system thing than anything to do with individual players - our forwards have been faster, more accurate and physical in the contact zone. Coleman and Rodda have led, and it's been great to see.

It could all fall down this week, but I hope it doesn't.
 
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A mutterer

Desmond Connor (43)
I suspect that chieka has probably been building internally towards a sacrifice everything to try and get the win over england. this would take the pressure of him and his assistants and some of the selections.

but i doubt he is tactically sound enough to pull off the upset.

For me I'd start simmons, and have him call, but also stop doing that stupid lets huddle up and casually walk over being ever so secretive but forgetting to wipe the smile off the face of the person its being thrown to. we had good lineout %'s in soup. rodda, dempsey, with the pooper (if pocock is fit). this is going to be won up front.

backline id have foley To'omua.
 

Joe Blow

Peter Sullivan (51)
It’s not the same English side of a year ago, but the same could be said about our blokes. Should be a good competitive test.
 
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