Australia vs South Africa - Brisbane 7th Sept 2013

[Slim 293]

If that many opposition bombs are left to bounce then there is something desperately fucking wrong at fullback.

Take your blue and white tinted glasses (with gold rim) off just for a moment and try again.

I don't recall Mogg allowing any bombs to bounce....... In fact, one of his positives from the weekend was his security under the high ball.........

It only occurred when Genia was imitating a fullback, and I'm unsure why he regularly drops back there because he just gifted the ball back..........

Whatever changes are made, Genia needs to stop going back to receive the high balls when we already have 2 competant fullbacks able to receive those kicks..........

 

[Slim 293]

Mowen's performance is definitely related to Palu missing, he was such a workhorse.

A 20min workhorse followed by a 20min rest in the stable...........

 

[Gurz]

I hope Australia make a lot of mistakes. Watch how quickly yellows get dished out in this game..

mistakes... or deliberate infringements? I would hope too that for deliberate foul play the yellow comes out but for genuine mistakes.... I cant understand why kiwi ref not officiating...? ahhh the referee politics.....

 

[Ash]

The only change i'd consider is Genia being benched, he was fucking terrible in both games, worse than Mogg, who despite all the hate actually only made two errors in the 2nd match: the not out penalty, and the kick out on the full. In the swirling Wellington wind. Go re-watch the first half, he was actually excellent at the back for us, and the only thing you could even possibly say he did wrong was the weak tackle on Luatua's break. Half got him, but fell off at the end of the tackle, but he did enough to save a certain try.

Nope, watch again. You are completely wrong on Mogg's effort. Start from 3:45 of Scott Allen's analysis. Mogg barely even touched him. (I won't link to it as it is no longer a G&GR analysis piece).

That left JOC (James O'Connor) to cover. JOC (James O'Connor) saved a certain try, not Mogg. They then scored out on JOC (James O'Connor)'s wing because JOC (James O'Connor) covered Mogg's tackle. You can say that after Mogg missed the tackle that the All Blacks scoring was inevitable, just that JOC (James O'Connor) saving the try on that ruck ending up forcing the All Blacks to score out wide on the next ruck.

Mogg also missed a tackle that he should've done better on in the first All Black's try as well, although in his defence he was drifting.

Mogg's defence has been good when chasing contestable kicks, but complete rubbish when he's the last line of defence. It desperately needs to improve.

 

[Mank]

Folau has to be at 15. It has always been the correct choice. Why Deans and Link subsequently have continually resisted playing him in his natural position is totally inexplicable.

Totally inexplicable means they don't value their jobs at all and rolled a dice to select player positions. I'm sure you don't really believe that, so perhaps try to view it from a coaches perspective and think of the reasons they might have made those choices.

 

[James Smith]

Link has to tell genia NOT TO KICK!! have to get Folau to 15 but that leaves us short a winger with Digby gone and Speight not eligible yet. Cummins anyone? About the only specialist winger left. Not a big fan of Tomane...

 

[Bowside]

I reckon Quade should start purely to take the defensive pressure off Genia.

Folau at 15 as well.

 

[Mank]

Link has to tell genia NOT TO KICK!!

It's not as simple as that. The All Blacks have a very organised defence, particularly when following up on their positional kicks. It would be suicide to run everything back. Of course there is a balance to be struck, and Wallaby supporters typically want the more adventurous option, but the coach is the one who is ultimately liable, not the supporters.

 

[Richo]

I reckon Quade should start purely to take the defensive pressure off Genia.

Quoi?

 

[Blue]

Quoi?

我不知道他在說什麼

他媽的我，我不知道

 

[Hugh Jarse]

http://translate.google.com/?tl=ja#auto/en/我不知道他在說什麼 他媽的我，我不知道

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

The box kick is such a low percentage option. I've got no problem with going the boot to improve your field position but how often does the box kick work out? Hardly fucking ever, that's how often. The pigs should reserve the right to give Sanchez a clip over the ear every time he does without it being to our advantage. He totally over uses it.

 

[Bowside]

Quoi?

The opposition doesn't hound Genia as much when Cooper is playing because they have to commit more players to stopping Cooper.

To'omua does a host of other things better, but at this stage his simply isn't the same threat.

 

[Joe Blow]

The box kick works very well for the teams that are accurate with the kick and chase the box kicks relentlessly, the Boks for instance. But for the Wallabies it would be better to kick the ball out when in our own 22 to use our lineout or keep the ball in hand when in the oppositions half to utilize our firepower out wide.
I agree that there are limited options with the current inside backs and Genia decided to kick rather than spin the ball laterally along the line time after time.
They were better in Bled 2 and To'omua took it to the line a couple of times but there was still a predictability about our back play that made it look unlikely that we would score tries through the backs.

 

[I like to watch]

The opposition doesn't hound Genia as much when Cooper is playing because they have to commit more players to stopping Cooper.

To'omua does a host of other things better, but at this stage his simply isn't the same threat.

It's got more to do with our forwards in front of him,and their effectiveness.Rather than who is outside Genia.
It's not like Genia's box kicks were a huge value add when QC (Quade Cooper) is outside him..

 

[Slim 293]

The opposition doesn't hound Genia as much when Cooper is playing because they have to commit more players to stopping Cooper.

Really?

 

[Scotty]

The box kick works very well for the teams that are accurate with the kick and chase the box kicks relentlessly, the Boks for instance. But for the Wallabies it would be better to kick the ball out when in our own 22 to use our lineout or keep the ball in hand when in the oppositions half to utilize our firepower out wide.
I agree that there are limited options with the current inside backs and Genia decided to kick rather than spin the ball laterally along the line time after time.
They were better in Bled 2 and To'omua took it to the line a couple of times but there was still a predictability about our back play that made it look unlikely that we would score tries through the backs.

We only need to look at the line breaks we made to see the solution:

A) short passing close to a straightening runner (AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) first test and Lilo both tests)

B) draw and pass to get outside them (Folau second test, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) first, JOC (James O'Connor) both?)

Both require engaging defenders and passing close to the line. It isn't rocket science.

 

[Brumbieman]

If that many opposition bombs are left to bounce then there is something desperately fucking wrong at fullback.

Take your blue and white tinted glasses (with gold rim) off just for a moment and try again.

Well maybe Genia should get out of the fucking way and stop calling for them then. Mogg caught 3-4 high balls under a lot of pressure. He also kicked (those two late in the 2nd half aside) very well, and shat all over Dagg in that contest. His kick-chase was by far the best of anybody and he actually earned us a couple of turnovers by pressuring the receiver and spinning him (Dagg) in the tackle.

Watch it again mate, those two poor kicks aside Mogg was actually very good.

Whether or not Folau should be playing 15 is a question out of any of our hands. I think Folau's limited involvement personally, is down to him not going looking for work (how hard would it be for him to charge onto a short ball from lealiifano in the midfield? He hasn't gone looking for work at all.

Secondly, our attack hasn't properly clicked yet for a few reasons. We're getting shit ball at the rucks (AB's lying all over the ball, and Genia fucking around trying to appeal for a penalty we all know isn't going to come) and Genia is shovelling shit sideways to To'omua who receives it under pressure.

I would certainly like to see Izzy chasing more kicks (again, hasn't done much of that) and competing in the air, and more cross field kicks into the corner for him. To'omua has a great boot, and so does Lealiifano, it should certainly be in the gameplan to try a few more of them.

All that aside, the point still stands that we've just played 5 tests against the Lions and All Blacks. Fuck me, if any country has had a harder start to the test season than that, i'm all ears. We now get a chance to spend two weeks working on things that were not going well, and then try them against a much stupider team.

Keep the same team, and if they don't perform against the Boks, THEN look at making some changes. At least give them a chance to win a game and get their spirits up before shitcanning everyone.

 

[barbarian]

Watch it again mate, those two poor kicks aside Mogg was actually very good.

No, no he wasn't. There is a case to be made for Mogg staying at fullback, but don't overegg the pudding mate. You can't be 'very good' if you never take the ball into contact.

Keep the same team, and if they don't perform against the Boks, THEN look at making some changes. At least give them a chance to win a game and get their spirits up before shitcanning everyone.

This argument shits me. It isn't the fucking under 7s. 'Get their spirits up'??? Really?? Are they that fragile that we need to ensure we 'get their spirits up' before we drop them??

And the Springboks are hardly easybeats, you make it sound like we are playing Namibia.

This is test rugby. You pick your best 15 players, and when they are no longer your best 15 players you fucking change it. It is now clear to me that JOC (James O'Connor) or Folau would offer quite a bit more than Mogg. So he has to go, at least to the bench.
.

 

[Braveheart81]

Box kicks are something that pretty much every international side uses to varying degrees.

There seem to be two things that are going badly wrong with Genia's box kicks. Firstly, he doesn't seem to be getting enough forward blockers at the side of the ruck to protect him. I see this as only a minor issue though.

The biggest problem is that Genia is executing them very poorly. It appears to me that he is getting the angles all wrong and his kicks are either going far too deep or getting charged down.

I think that rather than kicking the ball over his shoulder more (which forces him to kick more vertically and also means that he strikes the ball from a position further away from the opposition defenders) he is too front on and his body position is closer to it being a standard kicking action.

Several of his box kicks, particularly in the second test weren't even close to landing in the right spot. They were going 10 or 15m too far which meant we were just turning over possession with absolutely no pressure.