Australian Schoolboys & National Championships 2013

[Inside Shoulder]

I'm with Hugh Jarse on this one Lee Grant.
Between 2 kids of equal development the one will stand out in the weaker team. One sees that all the time. From what I am reading on here we've already seen some selections that may be explicable on this basis. I have seen none of the games so I'm juts going on what I've read, I hasten to add.
You also get the phenomenon of a need for kids who aren't in the favoured system to be seen to be getting a go in higher honours.

 

[I like to watch]

wrong Lee Grant.
Seriously I sometimes wonder if the very strength of the GPS system both in NSW and BrisVegas doesn't actually disadvantage some of the "nearly there" kids. These boys would be absolute stars in lesser associations and actually get some decent time in front of the selectors. In NSW an AAGPS III boy is reliant on reputation, and JGS/NGS because as a team they only got to play in one walkover game very early on in the main day. The same boy with rugby smarts gets far more chances to impress if they were attending a CHS or CAS.

In BrisVegas the trials seem to be a little more equitable but it is easier to draw the eye of the selectors as a big fish in a small pond, and the corollary is that it is difficult to shine in the GPS big pond with all the other big fish.

You realise that 27 of 46 players selected are GPS?
Give every GPS III's a choice of trialing for GPS III's or AICES, who would they rather play for?
Or give them the choice of trialing in CAS II or ISA II instead.
They all have less chances than the GPS III's players.
Then we have the advantage of trialling in the GPS I's or II's,being around such good players,with front foot ball all day,gives these players a huge advantage.
NSW picked 4 9's & 10's in their squad. 3 of each are GPS boys.
Is that an indication of the strength of their comp,or is the factor that each of these 9's & 10's were never under any pressure?
I bet both the CAS and CHS 10's are certain they would have been selected if they played behind ANY GPS pack.

 

[CTPE]

That won't be the case because they don't play against schools sides anymore, unless by exception.

The Oz Schools team played six games on tour in 2009 and only one was against a schools team. They won that one comfortably, against Ireland Schools, but the other five were against national or regional academy teams and they lost four of them.

Fortunately for the Aussies, the scheduled seventh match, against the England Under-18 Academy XV, was cancelled because the ground was frozen.

Mind you, they should have won the match against an England Under-17 academy development team. No excuses there.

Oz Schools beat an England Under 18 Academy team in 2005 but the landscape has changed since then.

Now the young Poms play in an Under-18 version of the Six Nations Under-20 Championship at the beginning of the year, and by the time the Aussies arrive they would have finished their Under-18 Regional tournaments and chosen the England Under-18 team for the Oz game from that.

Most of the England players have already left school and would have been training full-time at one of the 14 academies they are are all attached to. Some would have already been at the academies part-time for a year or two.

If the England Under-18 lads are as physically prepared and rugby-wise as the squad that was in Australia in 2011 and beat an Oz Under-19 team, the Aussie lads will be in strife — and the 2013 young Poms will be months advanced on that 2011 team.

The Under-18 academy players from the other countries the Oz Schools team will play don't have the same comprehensive preparation as the England lads do, but they are still on the high bits of an uneven playing field.

It would be good if our Oz Schools team played against Under-18 schoolboys only, as we do when their schools sides come here, but those days are gone.
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One of the major reasons for the success of English schoolboy rugby teams in recent years (and subsequently the success of their u18 and u20 national teams) has been the establishment of an Advanced Apprenticeship in Sporting Excellence Program in rugby at certain schools in partnership with the English RFU and the Academies of the English Premiership clubs. Effectively the boys do an apprenticeship in rugby at school with many of the schools having been purpose built via government funding for this. The schools involved play in the elite AASE League and as all boys at the schools doing the rugby apprenticeship have been selected on their rugby talent they have a veritable multitude of boys competing for a position in the schools 1st XV.

http://www.rfu.com/takingpart/careersinrugby/programmes/aase/aaseleague

 

[CTPE]

Further to the above, this list of Hartpury College students selections at international and representative level in 2012 is a good example of the results coming out of these rugby colleges and they are only one of the eleven colleges in the AASE league!


Georgia - Merab Sharikadze
England U20 - Elliott Stooke
England U19 - Elliott Stooke, Lewis Grinsell, Stephan Reynolds, Ross Moriarty, George Hymes
Wales U19 - Ben Thomas
England U18 - Billy Burns, Callum Braley, Josh Buggea, Ross Moriarty
Wales U18 - Nicky Thomas
England U17 - Ellis Genge
England Students - Brad Field, Richard Barrington, Graeme Lawler, Phil Hoy, Richard Townsend
England Counties U20 - Harry Casson, Jack Hayes
England U18 Sevens - Stephan Reynolds
England Women U20 - Katie Turnbull, Megan Goddard, Courtney Gill, Bianca Blackburn, Lucy Aylesbury, Emily Hatherall
England Women Sevens - Charlotte Keane

 

[Inside Shoulder]

One of the major reasons for the success of English schoolboy rugby teams in recent years (and subsequently the success of their u18 and u20 national teams) has been the establishment of an Advanced Apprenticeship in Sporting Excellence Program in rugby at certain schools in partnership with the English RFU and the Academies of the English Premiership clubs. Effectively the boys do an apprenticeship in rugby at school with many of the schools having been purpose built via government funding for this. The schools involved play in the elite AASE League and as all boys at the schools doing the rugby apprenticeship have been selected on their rugby talent they have a veritable multitude of boys competing for a position in the schools 1st XV.

http://www.rfu.com/takingpart/careersinrugby/programmes/aase/aaseleague

competitions like this might help too:
http://www.dulwich.org.uk/college/sport/news/2013/06/21/twickenham-2013-documentary

 

[Lee Grant]

One of the major reasons for the success of English schoolboy rugby teams in recent years (and subsequently the success of their u18 and u20 national teams) has been the establishment of an Advanced Apprenticeship in Sporting Excellence Program in rugby at certain schools in partnership with the English RFU and the Academies of the English Premiership clubs.

Excellent post CTPE but I would rather have our lads play a team of current schoolboys who are undergoing such a programme than a national or even a regional Under-18 academy team, most of whose players left school months before, and have been training full-time since in a professional environment whilst our guys are opening their text books at every opportunity.
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[Brian Westlake]

wrong Lee Grant. With a 6 week rugby tour to the UK and Ireland, I am bitterly disappointed that the selectors have once again gone for youth over experience, and overlooked me once more. I have no idea what more I can do to get a gig.

Seriously I sometimes wonder if the very strength of the GPS system both in NSW and BrisVegas doesn't actually disadvantage some of the "nearly there" kids. These boys would be absolute stars in lesser associations and actually get some decent time in front of the selectors. In NSW an AAGPS III boy is reliant on reputation, and JGS/NGS because as a team they only got to play in one walkover game very early on in the main day. The same boy with rugby smarts gets far more chances to impress if they were attending a CHS or CAS.

In BrisVegas the trials seem to be a little more equitable but it is easier to draw the eye of the selectors as a big fish in a small pond, and the corollary is that it is difficult to shine in the GPS big pond with all the other big fish.

Excuse me Mssr Jarse... Uncle Lee is never wrong... Misunderstood, misguided, errant... But never Wrong!!!

 

[WesternKiwi]

Here's the West Australian Squad for Nationals. Good luck to all the W.A boys, coaching staff and parents/supporters traveling to Sydney.

1. Aden Kambouris - Hale School

2. Terrell Berryman - Aranmore Catholic College

3. Tristan Schneider - Mindarie SHS

4. Liam Husband - St Marks ACS

5. Blake Philips - Clarkson SHS

6. Auvae Auvae - Seven Oaks

7. Tevin Ferris - John Tonkin

8. Hayden Anderson - Aranmore Catholic College

9. Angus Taylor © - Newman College

10. Timothy Koiatu - Tuart College

11. Joshua Billington - Hale School

12. Jacob Kohinga - Aranmore Catholic College

13. Kauri Cudd - Comet Bay College

14. Isaiah Pedersen - Thornlie SHS

15. Jayden Ngamanu - Aranmore Catholic College

16. Thomas Sheminant - Christchurch Grammar

17. Michael Tui - Port School

18. Grayson Artmanni - Padbury SHS

19. Ruban Birch - Guildford Grammar

20. Luke Foulwer - Mazanod

21. Hershelle Classen - Aranmore Catholic College

22. Michael Fotu - Lynwood SHS

23. Chris Miller - Kennedy Baptist College

 

[CTPE]

Excellent post CTPE but I would rather have our lads play a team of current schoolboys who are undergoing such a programme than a national or even a regional Under-18 academy team, most of whose players left school months before, and have been training full-time since in a professional environment whilst our guys are opening their text books at every opportunity.
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I agree LG but the problem is that the English Upper Sixth year finishes in early June after they complete their Uni Entry Exams. If the Oz Schoolboys were to play a schoolboys team where the boys were still at School, given that this would occur in December, they'd be playing boys who were only in their 1st semester of U6 - essentially 16 and 17 year olds against Oz boys who had all turned 18 with some not far off 19 so you can see why the Poms schoolboys will by and large already have left school and be in their Premiership clubs academies.

 

[Scrummy]

Any possibility of tv coverage?

 

[Dark Shark]

I am getting some text messages from people at the tournament as follows

MONDAY 1st JULY
1015 Game 1: Div 1 – NSW II v VIC First Field - unknown
1130 Game 2: Div 1 – QLD II v CS First Field - QLD II win 31 to 17
1300 Game 3: Div 1 – QLD I v ACT First Field - QLD 1 currently giving ACT a touch up
1430 Game 4: Div 1 – NSW I v WA First Field

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Dark Shark, The Red horde from the North seems to be pretty strong on paper.

What is your take on their chances of a Candy Cane Final on Saturday (Reds vs Whites)?

From my perspective I think it will end up the traditional NSW I vs Qld I battle with a scare or two along the way.

 

[WesternKiwi]

Thanks Dark Shark for the updates - pls keep it up.

HJ - are you at the Nationals? If not, can you get on to people there to get updates through on this site. As many as possible. Cheers from Over West.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Unfortunately I'm required down the Salt Mines in the Gulag for most of this week, but the Big Yellow has made an appearance today for the first time in 10 days. This will encourage some of the snouts to get out and about to Riverview to watch some decent footy.

My plan is to get there for the Thursday and Saturday games.

I think some snouts will start posting updates soon, and Uncle Lee can be relied upon to do his usual excellent standard daily report after a quiet sherry and taking the dogs for their constitutional.

 

[JstWaiting4amate]

NSW1's beat WA 66 to 8

 

[random2]

wins today for both of the NSW and QLD sides, NSW 1s were without a doubt the side of the day. Not sure on all names but a few standouts included:
NSW 1s - 6,7,8,10,11,13,14,15
NSW 2s - 13
QLD 2 - 9 (I think)
QLD 1 - 6,7,14,15
Impresses by ACT, especially all 4 halves who were outstanding for their size.

Andy Kellaway is Randoms player of the day.

 

[Roar]

wins today for both of the NSW and QLD sides, NSW 1s were without a doubt the side of the day. Not sure on all names but a few standouts included:
NSW 1s - 6,7,8,10,11,13,14,15
NSW 2s - 13
QLD 2 - 9 (I think)
QLD 1 - 6,7,14,15
Impresses by ACT, especially all 4 halves who were outstanding for their size.

Andy Kellaway is Randoms player of the day.

Standout players were...6 Crichton, 7 McCalman, 8 Vosayoco, 10 Deegan, 11 Taylor, 13 Milne, 14 Jones, 15 Kellaway

NSW 1s Should have the whole Backline for the Aust. Team.
All the boys played well, especially for the first game, as some boys don't know each other very well but played like a Professional Outfit.
I thought the Ref. Was Ordinary in the second half. But a great scoreline, so can't complain. Well done boys ! Rest day tomorrow for all the boys.

 

[angrydog]

Im not sure if anyone is able to provide this information, but can anyone who attended today maybe put up what the starting ACT side was?

 

[George Smith]

Im not sure if anyone is able to provide this information, but can anyone who attended today maybe put up what the starting ACT side was?

I watched the ACT game and thought Beau Donovan (15) and Connal McInerney (2) demonstrated they could easily play higher (Aust A?).

I noticed James Rumble (13) came on then off then back on. Many of the reserves were used later on (probably to clock up their required 70mins of playing time).

ACT were really competitive for the first 50mins but lost structure as more and more reserves came on. (Half time was 14-7 or maybe 19-7 as Qld scored in the corner on the hooter). This lack of depth contributed to the lopsided final score.

 

[George Smith]

Standout players were.6 Crichton, 7 McCalman, 8 Vosayoco, 10 Deegan, 11 Taylor, 13 Milne, 14 Jones, 15 Kellaway

NSW 1s Should have the whole Backline for the Aust. Team.
All the boys played well, especially for the first game, as some boys don't know each other very well but played like a Professional Outfit.
I thought the Ref. Was Ordinary in the second half. But a great scoreline, so can't complain. Well done boys ! Rest day tomorrow for all the boys.

note: Tepai Moeroa (12) didn't play today.