Australian Schoolboys & National Championships 2015

[Happy to Chat]

Brian,
Just as a guide, Churchie was a very good team last. I have been involved with schoolboy Rugby for about 40 years, and that team was probably a one in 15-20 year team. Not as good as GT from 76-80, but they were very good.

Seen some footage of the Sydney GPS teams this year and they were easily in their league, if not better. Because come rain, hail or shine (the buggers!) did not make too many mistakes or drop the ball. My view is that more of them should have been (and as a non-Chirchie supporter I don't like saying this but!) more in the Queensland team last year.

Granted they were good, and I am singling out one specific example where a contracted RL player would/may have taken the place of a Union Player trying make it to higher honours in his preferred pathway/code.

 

[Lee Grant]

I don't know why we are getting our knickers in a knot about bias in selections or who is going to be captain.

Players are not chosen for the Aus Schools team in direct proportion to the results in the Nationals; that argument doesn't have legs.

I remember one year at Riverview when NSW II played Qld II in the final of the Nationals, yet the NSW and Qld lads chosen that year for the Aus Schools 1st XV (including Beale and Cooper) were nearly all from their state 1st XVs, who played off for 3rd and fourth spot.

There has been an argument mentioned that some selectors tend to pick players they know and if there are more selectors from a certain state, players from another state are disadvantaged, ipso facto.

I doubt if that is the case. They have robust meetings during the week chaired by a non-voting ARU guy. Conspiracy theorists will mention what state he comes from, and they will also ask for an argument about why Player A and Player B missed out.

Player A and Player B will be missing most years; and I will be surprised if they are not overlooked this year also.

As for the captain - so long as he is a forward (and the lower his jersey number, the better), I won't care what state he is from.
.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

One thing to remember in the cross border sniping is that until this years Year 8 (I think) reach Year 12, on average the Queensland schooling system graduates most of their Yr 12 boys as 17 year olds with most not legally allowed to consume alcohol at Schoolies - Yeah right.

Because of its proximal location, TSS attracts a number of cross border students, and their recruiting and class placement is apparently more in line with NSW, consequently many of their graduates turn 18 in Year 12. This extra year of maturity may go some way to explain why TSS punches above its weight in Qld GPS Comp (I say expecting to have just initiated a flame war about how TSS are crap and <insert school> always pumps them).

When the U16 National Champs were run, with 90% of participants in all teams being in their 16th year, Queensland I usually performed with distinction taking the chocolates in 2013, 2012, 2011, 2008 and being a Silver medalist in 2006, 2007. The Qld II (White) team were silver medalists in 2010, 2009, and at the all QLD final in 2008.

To be eligible for the National Schoolboys Championship a player must be Under 18 at Jan 1 of that year AND at School or studying towards Year 12 outcomes. Finishing Year 12 at 17, and moving on to Colts, or QPR grade footy prevents many talented QLD players from gaining national recognition against their Under 18 age cohort because the only national team chosen is Aust schoolboys/Schoolboys A and not a National Under 18 team.

Typically the Queensland team at Nationals is made up of the most of their previous years Under 16 teams, with the occasional 18 year old TSS boy or a lad from another school who is repeating Year 12. The nucleus of the NSW team at that tournament is typically made up of Under 16 cohort from 2 years previously with some early developers from Year 11. 12 months extra physical development can make a big difference at Under 18 level. For a QLD team to win at National Schoolboys which they did in 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010 (Q2), 2011, and on 10 other occasions prior to that since the championships started in 1975 takes an extraordinarily talented cohort of young men playing up against folk who are on average 1 year older than them.

If you go looking for bias, I can guarantee you will find it even if the Selectors were Nelson Mandela, Mother Theresa, and General Peter Cosgrove. Being selected into Australian Schoolboys is a great achievement that any player (and their school, parents, friends, coaches and associated) should be rightly proud of, but it is no guarantee of selection to higher honours or any other entitlement. Colts and U20 selectors care little for a players reputation as a Schoolboy, and even then people will definitely find evidence of some sort of bias in those selections. If Schoolboy selection was a meal ticket to the U20s then the Lochies from Eastwood (Anderson and Cannell) would be in Italy right now with the Under 20's not Lukhan Lealaiaulotu-Tui. He wasn't even selected for NSW CHS 1st XV last year!

In Sydney Colts rugby, being a Former Australian Schoolboy can be a real hinderance to your club if you are not able to maintain your form, or were a "political appointee" on the right side of an alleged quota. Each player is allocated a Player Points rating (Schoolboy = 6, State or Combined States = 4, Proletariat = 2). The 15 players in Colts 1 team must add up to 40 Player points or below (Colts 2 is 30 or below), and although there is no Player Points cap in the 3rds, Australian Schoolboys are not allowed to play in Colts 3's. A former Oz Schoolboy being dropped to Colts 2 on form only gives the 2's Coach 24 Player points left for his other 14 players. Coaches who have to drop in form State players (4 points) to the 3rds to stay under their points cap solely to accommodate the out of form former Schoolboy soon get pretty jack of that situation, but that is another story.

The thread below exists to have a good old rant about biased selections, quotas and politics.
http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/co...ics-and-bias-gold-squads-unfairness-etc.8261/

Please take the arguments there.

 

[Lee Grant]

^^^^^^^^^^^^
Great post that HJ - I will have to bookmark it.

I didn't know the nitty-gritty of Colts Player Points before then, though someone tried to tell me once and I started nodding off.
.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

as a matter of interest is the no oz schoolboys in Colts 3 rule relatively new?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

For at least the last 3 years IIRC. Introduced to counter the possibility that some clubs would warehouse "talent" in Colts 3 (no points cap), then come off the bench for the 2's (and 1's) as a non-fresh reserve to circumvent the points cap limitation. Player Points for a reserve considered "fresh" (i.e. did not play in the lower graded fixture) count against the teams Points Cap, while reserves who have played lower grade games do not count against the Points Cap when they play for the higher grade team.

Never underestimate the lengths that some people and some organisations will go to to tilt the scales in their favour.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

some clubs

they did do it, IIRC

 

[pablo]

http://www.schoolsrugby.com.au/

Couple of teams up on the site, WA and ACT, Vic's final squad is up on

http://www.melbournerebels.com.au/news/article/rebels-u18-schoolboys-finalised

When do the NSW, QLD and CS teams get announced, or are they already?

 

[Eyes and Ears]

The final selection matches are today.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

NSW Schools 1st XV
1. Harry JOHNSON-HOLMES, Merewether HS, CHS
2. Tom HORTON, St Josephs College, AAGPS
3. Harry CHAPMAN, The Kings School, AAGPS
4. Tom PIRRODI, Newington College, AAGPS
5. Ryan McCAULEY, The Scots College, AAGPS
6. Nathanial GITTOES, St Josephs College, AAGPS
7. Charlie SMITH, The Scots College, AAGPS
8. Lachlan ANDERSON, Oakhill College, ISA
9. Harrison GODDARD, Oakhill College, ISA
10. Jack McGREGOR, St Ignatius College, AAGPS
11. William (Viliami) LATU, Illawarra SHS, CHS
12. Daniel ENGLAND, The Scots College, AAGPS
13. Simon KENNEWELL, Newington, AAGPS
14. Sepesa LOGA-TAROGI, Newington College, AAGPS
15. Tom WRIGHT, St Josephs College, AAGPS
16. Dylan WOODS-BRUDENELL, The Scots College, AAGPS
17. Jack MORRISON, St Ignatius College, AAGPS
18. Teu ATIOLA, Newington College, AAGPS
19. Max GIRDLER, The Scots College, AAGPS
20. Mila HINGANO, St. Augustine's College, ISA
21. Joshua OXLEY, St. Stanislaus' College, ISA
22. Koheleti VAITAIKI, Homebush BHS, CHS
23. Blaise BARNES, St Josephs College, AAGPS


Manager: John GUY, Hunter Valley Grammar School,
Coach: Brad GILL, Newington College
Assistant Coach: Luke BOWER, Cranbrook School
Physiotherapist: Narelle VEVERKA

NSW Schools 2nd XV
1. Cody WALKER, Kinross Wolaroi School, ISA
2. Jack NETTLETON, St. Augustine's College, ISA
3. Will McRAE, St. Augustine's College, ISA
4. Tom LANE, Hunter SHS, CHS,
5. Lachlan SWINTON, Knox Grammar, CAS
6. Dylan PIETSCH, The Kings School, AAGPS
7. James DONATO, St. Stanislaus' College, ISA
8. Harry McLENNAN, Trinity Grammar School, CAS,
9. Theo STRANG, The Scots College, AAGPS
10. Jayden WRIGHT, Hunter SHS, CHS
11. Jake PRINDIVILLE, The Scots College, AAGPS
12. Luke LOUGH, St. Augustine's College, ISA
13. Jack HAWKINS, The Scots College, AAGPS
14. Tyrone TAUKAMO, Newington College, AAGPS
15. Tim CLEMENTS, St Josephs College, AAGPS
16. Maxwell STEWART, St Edward's College, CCC,
17. Sama MOLOLO, Randwick BHS, CHS
18. Nick BROWN, The Kings School, AAGPS
19. Zac VON APPEN, St. Augustine's College, ISA
20. Lachie SIMPSON, St Josephs College, AAGPS
21. Matt LONG Newington College, AAGPS
22. Nick WILKINSON, St Josephs College, AAGPS
23. Patrick PELLEGRINI, Champagnat Catholic College, CCC


Manager:Saxon BOWLES, Oakhill College
Coach: Lachlan WHITE, Trinity Grammar School
Assistant Coach: Hugo ENGELE, Trinity Grammar School
Physiotherapist: Alistair BURGESS

 

[rod skellet]

As a ex Churchie (Qld GPS) and Barker (NSW CAS) student, and having followed schoolboy rugby reasonably closely for the last few years, I offer the following observations on the transition of schoolboys to super xv and or test players.

It is easy to follow the backs and to pick those at schoolboy level who may go onto greater honours. Beale, Cooper, Betham, Turner, Kellaway, Davis have all been logical choices for both Qld and NSW schoolboys who have gone onto greater honors for either U20, Super XV or Wallabies.

What is much harder is to watch the forwards progression from schoolboy level to higher honors.

Watching Harley Fox and Cameron Orr in previous Aust schoolboys games as good as they are against their Aust peers (age equivalent) will be interesting to follow from Super XV perspective.

I will offer this.

Should McCauley (Scotts) , Pirrodi (Newington) and Gittoes (Joeys) (all NSW 1st 2015 selections) remain un-injured and get the required coaching, then certainly the Waratahs have the cattle coming through the system that I believe will put them in a enviable position in 5 years time.

These kids have size and skills that have just not been evident (to this writer at least) by any other schoolboy equivalent over the last few years. (Including Angus Crichton last years standout).

As much as i am a keen follower of Qld GPS rugby I just have not seen their players, but from what I have seen of NSW schoolboys this year, I will go out on a limb and suggest the NSW 1sts will win the Aust schoolboys title once again.

But if the Qld side can make a real game of it this year, then Australian Rugby can look forward to retaining the Webb Ellis trophy in 5 years time.

 

[formerflanker]

Watching Harley Fox and Cameron Orr in previous Aust schoolboys games as good as they are against their Aust peers (age equivalent) will be interesting to follow from Super XV perspective.
These kids have size and skills that have just not been evident (to this writer at least) by any other schoolboy equivalent over the last few years. (Including Angus Crichton last years standout).

It is difficult to make comparisons to the 2014 Crichton as he played in the centres at school then was injured and didn't play Australian schoolboys. (I think he was selected in the back row). It's a shame rugby lost him from a 3-year loose-forward development pathway which would, IMHO, have made him a Waratah certainty and a possible Wallaby.
Perhaps he will do a Palu and come back to the game they play in heaven.

 

[rod skellet]

A certainty for next years NSW teams will be Tim Anstey at LHP (CAS 1sts, Barker).

He matched the CHS lads this year in the CAS v CHS game (won by 6pts by CHS) and resulted in H Johnson-Holmes ( CHS and Merwether HS) deservedly selected in NSW 1sts.

Tim is a year 11 lad who has superb srummaging technique, brick-wall defense and superb running and passing skills.

If not for a unfortunate concussion in his last school game he may well have been a inclusion from the CAS teams in this years state squads.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

It is difficult to make comparisons to the 2014 Crichton as he played in the centres at school then was injured and didn't play Australian schoolboys. (I think he was selected in the back row). It's a shame rugby lost him from a 3-year loose-forward development pathway which would, IMHO, have made him a Waratah certainty and a possible Wallaby.
Perhaps he will do a Palu and come back to the game they play in heaven.

Grrrrrr.
Most disappointing decision and a waste of 3 years in rugby which he cannot get back. Note: after the massive fanfare at his signing and a cameo in Auckland 9s has not been sighted off hobbies.
presumably he is playing I the "Mercedes sold more cars than Hokden" Cup - but even my dog won't watch that.

 

[10to12]

Grrrrrr.
Most disappointing decision and a waste of 3 years in rugby which he cannot get back. Note: after the massive fanfare at his signing and a cameo in Auckland 9s has not been sighted off hobbies.
presumably he is playing I the "Mercedes sold more cars than Hokden" Cup - but even my dog won't watch that.

Bumped into Angus last week. Injured..
He has stuffed up his finger (ligaments) and must admit it looks pretty manky. IThink he said its been operated on and just waiting for the healing. Still s big boy but not that much bigger than last year. Cheers.
PS Hope your boy is on the mend

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Bumped into Angus last week. Injured..
He has stuffed up his finger (ligaments) and must admit it looks pretty manky. IThink he said its been operated on and just waiting for the healing. Still s big boy but not that much bigger than last year. Cheers.
PS Hope your boy is on the mend

thanks

 

[GSP]

As a ex Churchie (Qld GPS) and Barker (NSW CAS) student, and having followed schoolboy rugby reasonably closely for the last few years, I offer the following observations on the transition of schoolboys to super xv and or test players.

It is easy to follow the backs and to pick those at schoolboy level who may go onto greater honours. Beale, Cooper, Betham, Turner, Kellaway, Davis have all been logical choices for both Qld and NSW schoolboys who have gone onto greater honors for either U20, Super XV or Wallabies.

What is much harder is to watch the forwards progression from schoolboy level to higher honors.

Watching Harley Fox and Cameron Orr in previous Aust schoolboys games as good as they are against their Aust peers (age equivalent) will be interesting to follow from Super XV perspective.

I will offer this.

Should McCauley (Scotts) , Pirrodi (Newington) and Gittoes (Joeys) (all NSW 1st 2015 selections) remain un-injured and get the required coaching, then certainly the Waratahs have the cattle coming through the system that I believe will put them in a enviable position in 5 years time.

These kids have size and skills that have just not been evident (to this writer at least) by any other schoolboy equivalent over the last few years. (Including Angus Crichton last years standout).

As much as i am a keen follower of Qld GPS rugby I just have not seen their players, but from what I have seen of NSW schoolboys this year, I will go out on a limb and suggest the NSW 1sts will win the Aust schoolboys title once again.

But if the Qld side can make a real game of it this year, then Australian Rugby can look forward to retaining the Webb Ellis trophy in 5 years time.

100% correct
Qld gps1 and Gps 2 put over 40 points on their opposition last night but it was all by brilliant individual backline play .the forwards in Gps 1 werre average and got pushed around in scrums . disappointing

 

[Rich_E]

Grrrrrr.
Most disappointing decision and a waste of 3 years in rugby which he cannot get back. Note: after the massive fanfare at his signing and a cameo in Auckland 9s has not been sighted off hobbies.
presumably he is playing I the "Mercedes sold more cars than Hokden" Cup - but even my dog won't watch that.

He got injured in round 3 and is still a couple of games away fro returning

 

[Derick Slater]

Queensland Schools First XV

1. Harry HOOPERT - Toowoomba Grammar School
2. Efitusi MA'AFU - Ipswich Grammar School
3. Gavin LUKA - St Joseph’s Nudgee College
4. Darcy SWAIN - Brisbane Boys College
5. Zac SHEPHERD - Brisbane State High School
6. Kalala MENI - St Joseph's Nudgee College
7. Angus ALLEN - The Southport School
8. Reece HEWAT - St Joseph's Nudgee College
9. Jordan LENAC - The Southport School
10. Hamish STEWART - Toowoomba Grammar School
11. Kris VEREVIS - Brisbane Boys College
12. Tony HUNT - St Joseph's Nudgee College
13. Len IKITAU - Brisbane Boys College
14. Dylan RILEY - The Southport School
15. Jayden NGAMANU - Brisbane Boys College
16. Matthew FAESSLER - Toowoomba Grammar School
17. Jordan TUPAI-UI - St Columban's College, CSS
18. Calum BALL - The Southport School
19. Michael WOOD - Padua College, AIC
20. James MacMILLAN - Anglican Church Grammar School
21. Joshua VUTA - Somerset College, CSS
22. Tyler CAMPBELL - The Southport School
23. Willie MALALA - St Joseph's Nudgee College

Queensland Schools Second XV

1. Braden SCHILLER - Ipswich Grammar School
2. Tevita 'UNGA WOLSKE - Ipswich Grammar School
3. Joel KUCHEL - Anglican Church Grammar School
4. Emmanuel LATU-MEAFOU - Ipswich Grammar School
5. Harry HOCKINGS - Anglican Church Grammar School
6. Louis SCHWENKE - Padua College, AIC
7. Jack FARRELL - Brisbane Boys College
8. Sam WALLIS - Anglican Church Grammar School
9. Rueben WALL - St Joseph's College, Gregory Terrace
10. Liam MOSELEY - St Joseph's Nudgee College
11. Ben SIMPSON - Brisbane Boys College
12. Matthew SMIT - Brisbane State High School
13. Michael WOLSTENHOLME - Brisbane Grammar School
14. Kailab COVENTRY - Kirwan State High School, CSS
15. Geoffrey ROBERTSON - Ipswich Grammar School
16. Sean FARRELL - Brisbane Boys College
17. Tom O'TOOLE - Padua College, AIC
18. Lachlan FOULDS - Brisbane Boys College
19. Harrison BARTKOWSKI - Brisbane Grammar School
20. Justin SIKIMETI - St Patrick's College, AIC
21. Max BAKER - Villanova College, AIC
22. Tiaontin RAOREN - Brisbane Boys College
23. Ashton WATSON - Toowoomba Grammar School

 

[number 6]

Congrats to these QLD boys selected. Pardon my ignorance, but can someone tell me: Is that young lad, Kalyn Ponga, still in school, and if so, why was he not selected?