Australian Schoolboys & National Championships 2017

[WaltBrisney]

I assume that was a shot at selectors and not the player.

 

[KicknChase]

I assume that was a shot at selectors and not the player.

Yeah that was intended, just worded poorly. Edited it to make it clear

 

[sidelineview]

Yeah that was intended, just worded poorly. Edited it to make it clear

He could get called up; you'd have to think he was one of the next players on the list

 

[fkj]

A player who did not have a great tournament but who was no doubt the best centre in NSW did not make either side is Brooklyn Hardacker. He is special.

Having only watched the last two games of the tournament, if either Qld1 or NSW1 played to their potential then they would have won by 20 plus points over either side in the finals.

To be honest, I think the CAS 1st XV gelled better than either of the NSW teams and would have beaten both ACT and Qld2 if they were played.

Largely due to the benefit of combinations. And that is a hard thing to bring together in a week. The CAS teams had the benefit of a full Waverly backline combination plus some hot finishers from Barker,Knox and Trinity, so when they stepped up in the CAS squad it clicked straight away.

Those combinations did not play together enough. No doubt swapping Woodcock and Donaldson constantly from fullback to 5/8th did not work.

I predicted earlier that the bulk of the squads for the schoolboys and Bar Baa sides would come from NSW1 and QLD1. Hopefully the aussie coaching staff can develop the best from the lads chosen.

Well done to all those selected. Remember there is no right answer.

And Australian rugby wonders why it loses its best talent to league. Hardaker has been absolutely shafted this tournament by coaches who obviously have a set against him for whatever reason.

I seriously don't understand what the coaches at this tournament have to come from the schools system, seems like a recipe for this sort of thing to happen...

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[WLF]

Easy to blame the coaches. They are a soft target. There has been a lot of chatter about NSW players who dominate their school competitions who have had their confidence destroyed by coaches. Perhaps their confidence suffered because they found themselves in unfamiliar territory, under pressure from opposition or being asked to play a position that is not their preferred one because in this team they are not the standout and the coach has deemed it best for the team. No disrespect to the NSW players chosen for higher honours but it beggars belief that the two teams that contested the final could only manage two each in the Australian schools yet NSW I, finish fourth and manage 8.

The ability to quickly gel in a new team and overcome adversity would be handy traits I suspect when opposing the NZ schools. There will be plenty of adversity to overcome.

Put whatever spin you like on this. QLD and ACT have been short changed.

Pavlakis had to be in the top 5 attacking players in the tournament but no place for him?

I am sure you have watched your preferred players for some time now, probably throughout the years I would think.

The coaches typically put their hands up and are assess by the ARU school body. Whilst their willingness to support our sport is wonderful, what goes with that is a responsibility to coach well,particularly at this level with lots at stake. So they are NOT a soft target, they are in charge of what happens certainly in terms of player choice, and it is evident that player choice wins or losses games, so a soft choice,I think not.

Having seen a lot of the NSW1 boys play this year, the team selections made us all gobsmacked, and thus the final outcome for that team.

Yes the competition was strong but consciously walking away from proven winning combinations has, as expected, completely back fired.
I think it is fair to say that the ACT team had the best combination going in the comp, was a real team, and therefore won the comp.

The results were actually pretty close and ACT and QLD 2 were not completely dominant at all.

Read into that what you will, BUT it doesn't mean the NSW boys chosen aren't the best and won't deliver against NZ or Fiji.

Time will tell.

 

[Show and go]

And Australian rugby wonders why it loses its best talent to league. Hardaker has been absolutely shafted this tournament by coaches who obviously have a set against him for whatever reason.

I seriously don't understand what the coaches at this tournament have to come from the schools system, seems like a recipe for this sort of thing to happen.

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I recon Lachlan white and co have done a great job , to get 9/20 in the Aus team is a terrific effort I can't see what all the fuss is about the coach, he did his job well which was to get as many of his players in the Aus team as possible. I'm sure even the coach didn't expect that amount of players to get in .
Maybe hardaker might make Aus schoolboys at league this weekend instead .

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I recon Lachlan white and co have done a great job , to get 9/20 in the Aus team is a terrific effort I can't see what all the fuss is about the coach, he did his job well which was to get as many of his players in the Aus team as possible. I'm sure even the coach didn't expect that amount of players to get in .
Maybe hardaker might make Aus schoolboys at league this weekend instead .

I think the point is that NSW got their representation despite their coaching.
If you're not going to pick solely on form in the tournament why have the tournament?

 

[rod skellet]

Clearly this tournaments form and result is not the only indicator. What is clear is that the lads are chosen from this tournament with the exception of 3 spots to allow for injury etc


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[rod skellet]

Last years high Qld and Act representation is testament to that


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[Inside Shoulder]

Clearly this tournaments form and result is not the only indicator. What is clear is that the lads are chosen from this tournament with the exception of 3 spots to allow for injury etc


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Not really.
Kids have come in who didn't play in it, iirc.

 

[Nightstalker]

ACT by far and away showing true character on the field compared to the "superstars"

"who will explain to these young men that guts and character aren't what the selectors are looking for.

I really hope i am wrong about the ACT boys regarding the future national team,
have to wait till Sat arvo, when the real ranting will begin from all who believe their side was dudded in the selection rooms (again)

Put this up on Wednesday night

why dont the stakeholders come clean about the criteria they use to pick these sides

It has very little to do with this tournament as was shown last year

 

[WLF]

ACT by far and away showing true character on the field compared to the "superstars"

"who will explain to these young men that guts and character aren't what the selectors are looking for.

I really hope i am wrong about the ACT boys regarding the future national team,
have to wait till Sat arvo, when the real ranting will begin from all who believe their side was dudded in the selection rooms (again)

Put this up on Wednesday night

WHY the stakeholders come clean about the criteria they use to pick these sides

It has very little to do with this tournament as was shown last year

You know this happened last year when the lower teams got most of the Aussie school boys.

Someone today from NSW, before any selections, suggested that why doesn't each state selection their teams then have a coach from another state coach that team,therefore there is no bias players in that team.

Great idea in my mind and may assist with a more logical selection process going forward, I am not attached to all this but can imagine the effect it can have on boys at this age.

I believe we all agree with this, keen for your thoughts so 1 day it is MUCH better.

 

[WLF]

I recon Lachlan white and co have done a great job , to get 9/20 in the Aus team is a terrific effort I can't see what all the fuss is about the coach, he did his job well which was to get as many of his players in the Aus team as possible. I'm sure even the coach didn't expect that amount of players to get in .
Maybe hardaker might make Aus schoolboys at league this weekend instead .

Rubbish, as a NSW supporter, I am sure this coach had extra pressure from
an internal source to make things happen for a boy, which happened in any position that arose, everyone saw it, and that was 1 of the major reasons why NSW1 never really had penetration until today.

Just hope this type of politics DOES NOT happen when our Country plays!

 

[Nightstalker]

How about instead of coaches putting forward their picks before the comp begins
That the opp. Coach puts forward after each game 3 forwards and 3 backs these could all then be correlated to form a team picked mostly on form without as much bias
Plenty of down days to get teams forming, this would get rid of the hype that some players bring with
Also players must play the majority of their game time in thier picked position or 1 other

Except reserves who should/ need more than a 60 minute opportunity.90 min minimum seems realistic, but even they must stay within the 2-3 positions they are reserve for

No form no rep jumper

Basic i know, but something has to done to stop this type of pre stacking teams

 

[WLF]

Rubbish, as a NSW supporter, I am sure this coach had extra pressure from
an internal source to make things happen for a boy, which happened in any position that arose, everyone saw it, and that was 1 of the major reasons why NSW1 never really had penetration until today.


Just hope this type of politics DOES NOT happen when our Country plays!

Brooklyn Hardaker is the most dynamic IC i have seen for many a year, and when he got 20 minutes on the field to shine it was ridiculous for him to pull a rabbit out of.....

The coaching team needs to explain, why this happened to him, but this will not happen. So unfortunately the school and CAS winning team combo was destroyed due to personal pressure.

Just hope this DOES NOT translate into the National team.

 

[Chris9012]

It seems apparent that the selectors (who two of which are aligned with ACT) have selected a national team full of boys that were strong, fast, and showed talent.

However, the majority of these boys selected are individuals that have no ticker and concede defeat when facing a challenging opposition. This was revealed by the hearty ACT and QLD teams winning the comp, with both NSW 1/2 teams losing consecutively as their championship opportunity was viewed as over. (and correspondingly many probably believing their chance of AUS rep was over as well.

Although as mentioned before, it is particularly saddening that two of the selectors have ACT affiliation, and despite this, they refuse to acknowledge the ACT win with the respected amount of AUS representatives. You would think that they would desire to grow SchoolBoy Rugby in their home, through proper acknowledgement and recognition?!

IMO the Head coach, Pat Langtry (ACT, ST Edmunds), who coached last year and ridiculously got 7 ACT boys in an AUS team, despite finishing 6th. Has ultimately lost all of his favours due to last year and has had to succumb to this NSW onslaught revealed on Saturday. His greediness possibly costing the ACT boys this year.

Nonetheless it seems evident that the politics and NSW patriarch of Rugby is suffocating the sport, destroying it across the entire country. (Excluding the Highbrow private school society in NSW that is).

 

[sidelineview]

Rugby God said:
So I go back to my original point, what is the objective of the week? Is it to win or is it for selection in the Aust teams?

Even though the playing conditions weren't included in this year's program, all coaches were forced to give their players at least the equivalent of a full game (60 minutes) which equates to one quarter of the total time over 4 games. That's if the rules were the same as last year.

Whether this allotted time manages to draw a fair balance between giving players a fair go to be noticed by selectors and giving a team a fair chance of winning is debatable.

Maybe a game and a half, 90 minutes is fairer?

ACT only scrapped home in a couple of their matches, but thats all they had to do. They showed they knew how to win through their great teamwork and they did enough to win. The goal kicking from their 10 under pressure was outstanding.

Good luck to ACT for winning the tournament but as we've seen over the last two years, where a team comes in the Championships doesnt necessarily have a lot of bearing on the selections of players for the two Schoolboys teams.

 

[sidelineview]

Regarding the NSW teams, with wisdom in hindsight and as a previous poster pointed out, it would have been better to play Michael Pavlakis at fullback for NSW1 and for Woodcock to play fly half for the 2s.

It worked for the CAS teams and would have worked for NSW teams as well.
Woodcock would have had a better chance to impress at fly half if he played for NSW2.

Pavlakis may have been overlooked because he is small, but if you're good enough you're big enough. I'm not sure who they could have left out to accommodate him; the numbers are restricted, but he's one of the unlucky ones. Maybe he'll get a call up. If not, he'll just have to settle for being popular.

If Woodcock was selected as a fullback for NSW1s, that's where he should have played, but as many people have pointed out, he's a fly half.

If the intention was for Woodcock and Donaldson to share the fullback and fly half roles, it didn't work.
When Donaldson was moved to fullback in their final against Qld , the team didnt perform as well. He was moved back to play 10 and they nearly got up and won.

It's too late now, but playing players out of position just so they can be in a particular team doesnt work.

 

[Adam Osborne]

ACT 2017 - 43rd Australian Schools Rugby Champions !

 

[Quick Hands]

ACT with only 2 players in the Australian schoolboys team and only 2 from QLD II. Both teams were finalist but yet NSW 1 have 10 players and came 4th, this is the problem with Australian rugby. Congrats to all the boys who participated in the comp.

I hate to disrupt your conspiracy theory but I'd point out that last year NSW I played NSW II in the final but had very few players selected whereas Qld I and Qld II played off for 7th and 8th but dominated Aust selections. You might not agree with the selections and you might even be right, but it's the process not favourable treatment for one state.
I happen to think that the process is more of an arse covering exercise for the organisation rather than one designed to give all the kids a fair go.