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Australian Schoolboys & National Championships 2018

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bignoofa

Allen Oxlade (6)
Anyone notice a few Australian players not congratulating teamates on tries in game v Tonga no7 in particular. I
 

Up the Guts

Steve Williams (59)
Quite a good effort from our boys. Kopua was great when he came on and Reimer and Moretti (bar the high tackle) were strong all game. Thought we had the edge in the forwards in the second half, shame about the rain which didn't let either backline do much.
 

bignoofa

Allen Oxlade (6)
No

Not sure what your point is here. Is he not congratulating or is he not being congratulated? o_O. I thought #7 had a very strong game when he was on the field.
No my point was on several tries a few guys didn't congratulate the scorer which well is upto everyone's opinion , and yes 7 had a very strong game too physical to strong for them was just a observation. In my opinion teams win as teams and teams congratulate each other
 

Titch

Frank Row (1)
If anyone has the Australian Barbarian lineup and the scorers against Tonga Schoolboys, would be much appreciated
 

Dan54

Rod McCall (65)
Well went to NZ/Aus schoolboy game at Ballymore, a pretty good game I thought. Aussie boys certainly weren't that far off I thought, and both teams should be congratulated with standard of game in wet conditions!
 

will2shy

Stan Wickham (3)
Australian Schools UK tour squad

AUSTRALIAN SCHOOLS AND U18S ALPHABETICAL NAME SURNAME SCHOOL TEAM
Daniel Ala St Augustine’s College NSW 2
Angus Bell Newington College NSW 1
Angus Bell St Ignatius’ College NSW 2
John Connolly The Kings School NSW 1
Vincent Creagh St Joseph’s College, Hunters Hill NSW 2
Max Douglas NSW Gen Blue Academy
Reno Gerrard The Southport School
Carter Gordon Brisbane Boys College QLD 1
Will Harris The Scot’s College NSW 1
Zane Hogan St Edmund’s College ACT
Lachlan Ilias Trinity Grammar School NSW 1
Spencer Jeans The Southport School QLD 1
Brendan Jimenez St Edmund’s College ACT
Tyrell Kopua The Southport School QLD 1
Thomas Lambert Trinity Grammar School NSW 1
Viliami Lea Reds Academy
Reesjan Pasitoa St Joseph’s College, Nudgee QLD 1
Billy Pollard Barker College NSW 1
Luke Reimer Barker College NSW 1
Seb Strang The Scot’s College NSW 1
Phrancis Sula-Siaosi St Joseph’s College, Nudgee QLD 1
Bailey Tautau St Joseph’s College, Nudgee QLD 1
Carlos Tizzano WA Future Force Academy
Tom van der Schyff The Southport School QLD 1
Harry Vella St Joseph’s College, Nudgee QLD 1
Joey Walton Wadalba HS NSW 1
Jeremy Williams The Scot’s College NSW 1


https://www.schoolsrugby.com.au/2018/news/uk-tour-squad-announced/
 

rugbyontherange

Frank Nicholson (4)
Just wondering if someone can shed light as to the changing of the Australian Schoolboys Program and tour, to be anyone who is U18 is good to go.

From the list above there are 3 boys added who didn't play any of the schools tournaments and are listed as Academy players - so clearly not at School.

Looking at the original posts from Australian Schoolboys program, it was never mentioned that this was a program that was open to any U18 year old. If it was or is an open program, why weren't the trials structured as such. Surely there are more than these 3 x 18 year olds not at school who are awesome players.

As we saw, all the trials leading up to the national champs in July, the International games just held, and the naming of the touring team, were structured around the schoolboy selection system;
- clearly a quoto per school thing happening to make up the original trials for state team selection.
- the restriction on QLD schools by picking players to attend trials on last years form, (i.e. before the current season had even started)
- the advantage of NSW over QLD as the players had a full season of rugby under their belts rather than not having played comp games at all. (Fitness, sharpness, timing).
(Yes the same old Term 2 v Term 3 Rugby issue – ripe fruit v unripe fruit).

Comment by Realist back in June:
With the selections having to be made before our GPS season has even started means reputation plays a big part and not just current form and so things become very subjective. I am sure there will be a number of Kids that will put their hands up during the season and people will wonder why they never made the rep side, like wise the opposite will be said about some of those that have made it in. The only fair way to make the best decisions is at the end of the season when there has been plenty of time to look at them and also to see how they physically hold up, especially in this age group as maturity can have an impact on current form. But as we currently know this is impossibility at the moment with how the Australian schoolboy calendar is set up.


Leading in to the announcement of the Touring Team, how many of the players were aware that the Schoolboys Tour was now open to non schoolboys and for all the other non schoolboys out there, why weren’t they given a crack.
I don’t have any problem with Reno Gerrard being selected:
1: he is at school
2: he trialed and was injured
3: the selectors need to cover their embarrassment of not picking him after the way he played in the TSS v Nudgee R9 game and the U19’s tournament.

The addition of Phrancis Sula-Siaosi over Zane Nonngor?? They are listing PSS as QLD 1 but wasn’t, he was in the very poor performing QLD 2 side and hence wasn’t selected in Aus or Ba Ba’s team.
Didn’t Nonngor get a team man award for the tournament back in July and wasn’t he unstoppable for Aus Barbarians.
Gordon starting over Pasitoa ?? Gordons season was questionable at best and Pasitoa was on fire in the Nudgee v TSS game.
Clearly the lineout struggles by the Aust side v the taller NZ locks indicate that you can’t pick back rowers as locks. Yes the first half hookers throws were terrible, but you could also factor in the lack of options and added pressure, due to lack of height.
Just my (QLD) opinions - which I am sure others will disagree with and will have views of their own for different positions. Yes there is always a different view on selections and no, I am not a parent of a boy who missed out.


The other U18 boys who are not at school are listed as being from the Development academies already and I see they were playing in the U18 tournament for NON School boys.

Sydney U18 team to play NSW Country U18s at Concord Oval, 3pm on Monday 11th June (As a feature match in NSWJRU State Championships).
Max Douglas MANLY No 5
Is this the same Max Douglas that finished school last year, and was in Aus Barbarians last year.
played for NSW Country this year and is with Gen Blue development.

Carlo Tizzano finished school last year and was in Aust Barbarians side He is named in the 2018 Force NRC squad. Surely he is getting plenty of training and development opportunity.

Villami Lea, also finished school last year and was in the QLD U19 Country side that recently played.

Nothing against any of these lads but surely they have had their development opportunity and are continuing to do so.


So, if Aust Schoolboys is meant to be a development pathway, why are we throwing boys on the tour who have already had an opportunity and by being in the state academies, are already on a development pathway.


I guess in posting my thoughts, I am wondering :

- when did the goal posts moved re the selection process,
- was there transparency regarding the selection process for "non schoolboys" on a schoolboy tour.
- if it is now an U18's tour, what opportunity were others who are not at school given,
- and what is the benefit of adding 3 players who already have a development opportunity.


I am just thinking that some of those boys who busted their guts in camp and then to play at the Schoolboy Nationals last holidays and then in camp and international games all these holidays would be pretty gutted to be replaced by boys who aren’t at school and are already in development franchises.

Just saying.
 

The Engine Room

Chris McKivat (8)
Just wondering if someone can shed light as to the changing of the Australian Schoolboys Program and tour, to be anyone who is U18 is good to go.

From the list above there are 3 boys added who didn't play any of the schools tournaments and are listed as Academy players - so clearly not at School.

Looking at the original posts from Australian Schoolboys program, it was never mentioned that this was a program that was open to any U18 year old. If it was or is an open program, why weren't the trials structured as such. Surely there are more than these 3 x 18 year olds not at school who are awesome players.

As we saw, all the trials leading up to the national champs in July, the International games just held, and the naming of the touring team, were structured around the schoolboy selection system;
- clearly a quoto per school thing happening to make up the original trials for state team selection.
- the restriction on QLD schools by picking players to attend trials on last years form, (i.e. before the current season had even started)
- the advantage of NSW over QLD as the players had a full season of rugby under their belts rather than not having played comp games at all. (Fitness, sharpness, timing).
(Yes the same old Term 2 v Term 3 Rugby issue – ripe fruit v unripe fruit).

Comment by Realist back in June:
With the selections having to be made before our GPS season has even started means reputation plays a big part and not just current form and so things become very subjective. I am sure there will be a number of Kids that will put their hands up during the season and people will wonder why they never made the rep side, like wise the opposite will be said about some of those that have made it in. The only fair way to make the best decisions is at the end of the season when there has been plenty of time to look at them and also to see how they physically hold up, especially in this age group as maturity can have an impact on current form. But as we currently know this is impossibility at the moment with how the Australian schoolboy calendar is set up.


Leading in to the announcement of the Touring Team, how many of the players were aware that the Schoolboys Tour was now open to non schoolboys and for all the other non schoolboys out there, why weren’t they given a crack.
I don’t have any problem with Reno Gerrard being selected:
1: he is at school
2: he trialed and was injured
3: the selectors need to cover their embarrassment of not picking him after the way he played in the TSS v Nudgee R9 game and the U19’s tournament.

The addition of Phrancis Sula-Siaosi over Zane Nonngor?? They are listing PSS as QLD 1 but wasn’t, he was in the very poor performing QLD 2 side and hence wasn’t selected in Aus or Ba Ba’s team.
Didn’t Nonngor get a team man award for the tournament back in July and wasn’t he unstoppable for Aus Barbarians.
Gordon starting over Pasitoa ?? Gordons season was questionable at best and Pasitoa was on fire in the Nudgee v TSS game.
Clearly the lineout struggles by the Aust side v the taller NZ locks indicate that you can’t pick back rowers as locks. Yes the first half hookers throws were terrible, but you could also factor in the lack of options and added pressure, due to lack of height.
Just my (QLD) opinions - which I am sure others will disagree with and will have views of their own for different positions. Yes there is always a different view on selections and no, I am not a parent of a boy who missed out.


The other U18 boys who are not at school are listed as being from the Development academies already and I see they were playing in the U18 tournament for NON School boys.

Sydney U18 team to play NSW Country U18s at Concord Oval, 3pm on Monday 11th June (As a feature match in NSWJRU State Championships).
Max Douglas MANLY No 5
Is this the same Max Douglas that finished school last year, and was in Aus Barbarians last year.
played for NSW Country this year and is with Gen Blue development.

Carlo Tizzano finished school last year and was in Aust Barbarians side He is named in the 2018 Force NRC squad. Surely he is getting plenty of training and development opportunity.

Villami Lea, also finished school last year and was in the QLD U19 Country side that recently played.

Nothing against any of these lads but surely they have had their development opportunity and are continuing to do so.


So, if Aust Schoolboys is meant to be a development pathway, why are we throwing boys on the tour who have already had an opportunity and by being in the state academies, are already on a development pathway.


I guess in posting my thoughts, I am wondering :

- when did the goal posts moved re the selection process,
- was there transparency regarding the selection process for "non schoolboys" on a schoolboy tour.
- if it is now an U18's tour, what opportunity were others who are not at school given,
- and what is the benefit of adding 3 players who already have a development opportunity.


I am just thinking that some of those boys who busted their guts in camp and then to play at the Schoolboy Nationals last holidays and then in camp and international games all these holidays would be pretty gutted to be replaced by boys who aren’t at school and are already in development franchises.

Just saying.
 

The Engine Room

Chris McKivat (8)
I agree the selection of academy players (who have finished/left the school system) is an insult to the genuine/attending schoolboys who trialled and played school games and schoolboy selection trials/games this season.
 

Garry Owens

Alan Cameron (40)
Seems as though "Schoolboys" is being transitioned and rebranded as Australia U18

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...s-with-super-rugby-clubs-20180921-p5058b.html

Still called ""Australia Schools and U18" but ultimately ( only IMO ) it will simply be known as Australia U18

The idea is to pick up guys from out of school pathways and who actually aren't at School and so wouldn't qualify for "Schoolboys" per se

What it means in the short term ( at least in QLD ) is that for the next 2 years guys who are 1 year out from School and playing Colts or Grade wjll still be eligible to play "Schoolboys and U18"

So a guy like Tom Kibble , theoretically , could have gone on the UK tour I believe - given he is still U18 this year ( doesn't turn 19 until next year ) but clearly ...guys like him that are already playing NRC and in the Junior Wallabies program ( U20 ) that is where he is at and stays for now . Same at another level up for Jordan Petaia

And next year all current Schoolboy and Barbarian reps who are leaving School and won't be 19 until 2020 will be eligible for "Australian Schools and U18" again
 

rugbyontherange

Frank Nicholson (4)
Thanks for the article, helpful to explain the restructure and have no objection to the change however...the article was only printed 21st September.

The 3 lads dropped in to the tour this yea, following changes announced 2 weeks ago, are already in establised franchises and are on the establised pathways, so what is the benefit for them to "go back" to schoolboy rugby. If they are playing U19's why aren't they in the U20's program - oh yes, some of them are. So again, what is the benefit.

There is a completely different selection process for schoolboys v non schoolboys so where is the transparency of the selection process.

All good for it to start next year with a few more guidelines in place regarding the trial process, but at the moment I am questioning the lack of integrity around the selection process.
 

Garry Owens

Alan Cameron (40)
Hmmmm

Possibly a couple of those boys are heavily League aligned and might never have any intention of playing Rugby
 

bignoofa

Allen Oxlade (6)
Seems as though "Schoolboys" is being transitioned and rebranded as Australia U18

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...s-with-super-rugby-clubs-20180921-p5058b.html

Still called ""Australia Schools and U18" but ultimately ( only IMO ) it will simply be known as Australia U18

The idea is to pick up guys from out of school pathways and who actually aren't at School and so wouldn't qualify for "Schoolboys" per se

What it means in the short term ( at least in QLD ) is that for the next 2 years guys who are 1 year out from School and playing Colts or Grade wjll still be eligible to play "Schoolboys and U18"

So a guy like Tom Kibble , theoretically , could have gone on the UK tour I believe - given he is still U18 this year ( doesn't turn 19 until next year ) but clearly .guys like him that are already playing NRC and in the Junior Wallabies program ( U20 ) that is where he is at and stays for now . Same at another level up for Jordan Petaia

And next year all current Schoolboy and Barbarian reps who are leaving School and won't be 19 until 2020 will be eligible for "Australian Schools and U18" again
The nsw18s side that toured qld in July were told then that they were eligible for this uk tour and yes max played in that (exceptionally well I might add) he also played city not country ... if a boy leaves school early to take up a trade this is a fantastic opportunity to continue their rugby ,but in my opinion if you have already completed yr12 being given another chance seems strange I’m not sure which banner the 3 boys added from academy rugby fall under but I’m sure they will do everyone proud
 

rugbyontherange

Frank Nicholson (4)
Wow, well that is an interesting fact that the boys were told this in July, when the model to blend Schoolboys and U18's was only announced on 21st September 2018;

This article below was on rugby.com and is dated 24th September. It refers to the announcement of the new model as being announced last Friday. (21st September)
Wondering if all the state U18 sides were told the same info or it was just a privilege for NSW teams.
I am wondering if the school boys were told any of this before they played their hearts out only to find they are not competing against schoolboys for spots in the schoolboys team. Since it only became Schoolboys & U18's from 21st September 2018.


Max Douglas def completed year 12 last year. I would presume the others did too, otherwise they would have been playing in the Schoolboy champs this year.

I don't have any problems with whoever gets selected as long as the process is transparent and in the best interests of developing more rugby players for Australian rugby.

Giving players (who have already made it in to development programs), spots in a younger developing team, does not make any sense. These players have been playing with the top notch U19 players and now they are going back to play with 17year olds.
A backward step for the boys who finished school last year and missed opportunity to develop players further from this year.

Why?
 

Gary Owen III

Syd Malcolm (24)
By the same argument - Saying these boys "had their chance" when in year 12 (when they were only turning 17 that year against other kids turning 18) seems to be unfair to them i would think... Why should they be denied the opportunity to play in the nations highest U18 team if they are good enough? Only because they left school young?

This new pathway means that every U18 player in the country can have an equal pathway - be they at school or not...
 
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