Brisbane Junior Club Rugby 2017 - U13 to U17

[Garry Owens]

Very good, I like that one.
I see there was some sort of suspension handed down to the lads, would this affect them playing for school or the BJRU selected teams?

Yeah I'd expect so Sunny

It got pretty wild and wooly

Player leaving the bench ....a big ass melee etc

I didn't know this until fairly recently but the tribunal have the power to hand out any length of punishment they see fit , and yes , if the offence is serious enough to warrant it - they could conceivably take players out of School or later season Rep opportunity in the 16's if they were being considered for that

 

[Sunny]

It's a bit quiet on the BJRU teams for 2017 front, Is there no trial day on, where teams all play at the one ground? I find it a good day, you can get around and see heaps of games.

 

[Chalkie]

Having moved to QLD from NSW this year I,m blown away that the BJRU combine 15 and 16 year old boys in the one Rep age group as 16's. While there are a few 15 year old boys that may match it with there 16 year old peers, there are only a few and not the numbers that managed to get selected in the current under 16 Rep teams. At our previous club in NSW we had a younger team that were minor and major premiers that were constantly giving the older team heaps about how they would smash them if they played. The older boys who finished last in their age group had enough and said right lets have a game, so the game went ahead and what do you think the result was. The older boys taught the younger boys a valuable rugby lesson when they put 100 on them. My point is that for an under 15 boy to be selected in an under 16 team they should have to play against the under 16 boys to see how they compare and not how they stand out in their own age group. They may be the big fish in their age group but most will get destroyed against the older boys. A lot of quality 16's missed out to allow 15's a spot.

 

[Garry Owens]

Maybe yes. Maybe no

I don't think you can apply a blanket generalisation Chalkie

The truth is that best in class of U16 aren't doing Club Rugby. If they were best in class as of right now they would have just played or they would be preparing for their school First XV season

Don't get me wrong there are some fine U16 players playing Club - a number of whom likely have good prospects in the game - but the quality of depth is pretty thin

There are 9 x U15 boys selected out of 46 spots available . Maybe a touch high but carrying 3 or 4 younger age boys to a team is not completely unreasonable

More the question is who and how . For example if a player can't get it done at their age group level and compete against best competition at his age group level - then it's fair to assume it's not going to happen in the age group above him

And it's sort of what's wrong with Australian Rugby generally and why it is in the state it is in .

At every level we are enamoured with size at the expense of heart , smarts , and skill

Yours is a good suggestion though in the scheduling of some U15 v U16 games in the rep round

This is where a lot of these questions would be answered

 

[Sunny]

Maybe yes. Maybe no

I don't think you can apply a blanket generalisation Chalkie

The truth is that best in class of U16 aren't doing Club Rugby. If they were best in class as of right now they would have just played or they would be preparing for their school First XV season

Don't get me wrong there are some fine U16 players playing Club - a number of whom likely have good prospects in the game - but the quality of depth is pretty thin

There are 9 x U15 boys selected out of 46 spots available . Maybe a touch high but carrying 3 or 4 younger age boys to a team is not completely unreasonable

More the question is who and how . For example if a player can't get it done at their age group level and compete against best competition at his age group level - then it's fair to assume it's not going to happen in the age group above him

And it's sort of what's wrong with Australian Rugby generally and why it is in the state it is in .

At every level we are enamoured with size at the expense of heart , smarts , and skill

Yours is a good suggestion though in the scheduling of some U15 v U16 games in the rep round

This is where a lot of these questions would be answered

Plenty of GPS based lads played U16's this season and there are more than just a few NON GPS boys that are very much up to the quality needed, and the picking of 15's over quality 16's it total bull..


The whole process is corrupt and reeks of it, For instance the Sunnybank coach for 15's is the BJRU selector and it's no coincidence plenty of his Sunnybank 15's got in, and what about the u16 boy picked who never played a game all season? That pretty fair to those who did played all season busting their gut for and for what?

The whole thing was a farce, for god sakes the trial round was made up at the last minute, the u16's were told the rounds were done and that is it, see ya next season to those who missed finals. And then out of know where, trials are suddenly on and boys signed up for clubs at the last minute for the trail day only and they got in, my guess is on the back of the QRU and the development officers pushing for them and the whole controlled event.

Now thats what the problem with rugby in Australia is.. It is totally controlled.

 

[Chalkie]

Maybe yes. Maybe no

I don't think you can apply a blanket generalisation Chalkie

The truth is that best in class of U16 aren't doing Club Rugby. If they were best in class as of right now they would have just played or they would be preparing for their school First XV season

Don't get me wrong there are some fine U16 players playing Club - a number of whom likely have good prospects in the game - but the quality of depth is pretty thin

There are 9 x U15 boys selected out of 46 spots available . Maybe a touch high but carrying 3 or 4 younger age boys to a team is not completely unreasonable

More the question is who and how . For example if a player can't get it done at their age group level and compete against best competition at his age group level - then it's fair to assume it's not going to happen in the age group above him

And it's sort of what's wrong with Australian Rugby generally and why it is in the state it is in .

At every level we are enamoured with size at the expense of heart , smarts , and skill

Yours is a good suggestion though in the scheduling of some U15 v U16 games in the rep round

This is where a lot of these questions would be answered

Just to clarify I am a product of the GPS system having been at IGS from 85 to 89 during the schools purple patch when they won 3 titles in as many years under the coaching of Steven Nance (went on to be the trainer for the Wallabies during their first world cup win) and Peter Wilson (David Wilson's, yes the Wallaby, younger brother) and I think that the GPS system is a big part of the Australian Rugby problem. The GPS players are no better than any quality club player but they are always put up on a pedestal and are often, no always given spots over equally as good non GPS players.

I have also coached junior rugby in our previous NSW union for 6 years having coached teams to 2 minor premierships, 4 grand final wins and one grand final runner up. I was also part of that unions Rep program as a coach and selector for a couple of years so I do have some understanding of the game and its issues.

Further to my last were I made a comparison between an u15 player and an u16 player, the same holds true for a Division 1 player and a Division 2 player. During the u16 trial games the Logan team who finished last in the Division 1 comp played Souths who are on top of the Division 2 comp. Logan beat them by 40+ yet South's have more players in the Rep teams. Logan also played Wynnum another Division 2 team and also beat them by 40+. There is a big difference between Division 1 and 2 in both skill level and execution not to mention that the Division 1 boys play at a consistently higher level. There is a reason why the Division 1 teams always beat the Division 2 teams, it's because the players are better which makes me wonder why so many Division 2 players have also found their way into the Rep teams. Hang on I think Sunny has hit the nail on the head, I think that you will find that every private school boy in the u16 comp some how managed to get a spot in the Rep team including the boy who never played a game.

On the Rep weekend Logan beat Brothers, even though the score was only 12-10 Logan actually dominated the game and it was only a couple of late tries by Brothers that made it look close. How many players did Brothers get in and how many did Logan get in?

The reason why I stepped down from my previous NSW union Rep program was because of all the back room politics which tended to shape the team for the worse. This is my first hand observation. I hand hoped things would be better here but it seems not. What a shame for all those young lads that should have been picked and weren't.

 

[Rugrat]

Chalkie, welcome to Qld. Agree with you. The BJRU is sadly incompetent. At under 13 rep designated rounds The BJRU asked for nominations and presented a criteria. Parents decide to nominate or not based on many issues such as expense and individual child commitments. BJRU ignores its own processes and procedures and selects kids that havnt nominated. Why?

 

[Sunny]

Chalkie, welcome to Qld. Agree with you. The BJRU is sadly incompetent. At under 13 rep designated rounds The BJRU asked for nominations and presented a criteria. Parents decide to nominate or not based on many issues such as expense and individual child commitments. BJRU ignores its own processes and procedures and selects kids that havnt nominated. Why?

The BJRU is now run by the QRU and they have their own agendas that override any rules with no question. The QRU development staff influence the who gets in or not with no regard to skill or performance over every round of rugby played by the boys, their main priority seem to be getting every GPS lad they can into teams, even if they didn't play club this year or only turned up to trial day? Because in their ancient way of thinking, all the best lads play GPS, if they don't play GPS they are not good players and not worth looking at.
This is the only sport that worries what school you go to and put you on a pedestal because of it, Look at League, they proudly tell you during state of origin what Junior club, yes club they came from.
No wonder there was no u17 club comp in BJRU this year.

 

[Confucius Say]

You can hardly call rep when the best all not available for selection. Let the boys and parents have their fun. Some of the u15 selection could not make their Metropolitan rep team. A more accurate reflection of ability? Why no cross reference from the QRU process to the QSS.....................because it is not about the development but the dollar.

Possibly, always the chance for the player to be overlooked. Still happening at all highest levels of sport.

 

[Chalkie]

You can hardly call rep when the best all not available for selection. Let the boys and parents have their fun. Some of the u15 selection could not make their Metropolitan rep team. A more accurate reflection of ability? Why no cross reference from the QRU process to the QSS.......because it is not about the development but the dollar.

Possibly, always the chance for the player to be overlooked. Still happening at all highest levels of sport.

I agree with what you are saying except for your first statement. Any quality u16 club player could walk into an under 16 A GPS team and play as well. We need to stop putting these entitled GPS boys on a pedestal. As you also said these GPS boys were just the lucky ones that have been noticed or their parents could afford to buy them into the GPS culture, there are plenty of other boys out there that are just as good that have not got there break yet. As a GPS graduate I am pleading with everyone to let go of this prejudice against anyone that is not a product of the GPS sausage factory before it destroys this great game. For every boy that is lucky enough to get a bursary/scholarship to one of these school there are at least 4 boy that are as good or better that don't so why does everyone constantly discount them. What a disgrace. Take the silver spoons out of you mouths and open your eyes GPS is killing club rugby just ask any non GPS boy in the U17 BJRU comp who have now probably gone to play league.

 

[shrek]

Sunny,
I was out and about today watching some junior rugby and ran across a few of the BJRU members. I posed the question that you raised being who now runs the Junior competition QRU or BJRU? They informed that while Jim Carmichael was at the helm there was an attempt of a "hostile takeover" of the BJRU. But the takeover did not succeed as all the club presidents held firm and supported the current structure. Ultimately it was just a cash grab from Jim Carmichael and the club presidents saw through it all. So therefore the BJRU is still run with volunteers with a couple of staff that are based at QRU house and is as it has been for some 30 + years. I also note that many of the BJRU members do not have children amongst the junior ranks, which I personally think is a good thing.

As for your comments regarding the U16 state championship selections being "rigged, "Corrupt". I must say I had a bit of a chuckle over that comment ! I have meet both camps of coaches several times over the years with my own son being involved one of those years. I can assure you that these two camps as they are now "North of the River" and "South of the River" have had a long and lasting, healthy rivalry for over 7 to 10 years now. With them both, it's all about winning and nothing more matters. I'm sure as they have in the past, have been out and about assessing players for several weeks at local club games and school games prior to the selection day. In fact both camps were both out again looking at players and combinations.
Furthermore, I do not believe that these coaches involved in the U16 age group would allow players to be thrust upon them by anyone. I did hear a few years ago this was the case and the coaches in that particular camp told the powers to be to "stick it" and refused to accept that player. This can only be admired I think! You only need to look at the record between these two camps over many years to see that no quarter is given and some of the best junior rugby you'll see with the talent available. I believe last year was the first year ever that either camp did not feature in the grand final. But, I think it was due to a lack of talent available for selection, due to schools not releasing players, costs or just away on holidays. The better years were when the State championships were held in September and all of the best club player were available and not restricted by schools. I think the QRU may need to look at his closely again and move the State Championships back to September as it was.

I sure the odd player may have missed out on selection due to performances on the day or leading up to selections. But I'm confident both camps would have selected players they believe will do the Job. As we all know coaching can be a bit subjective when it comes to selections. Just need to ask Billy Slater in the last State of Origin selections.


Just some food for thought!!

 

[Tall Paul]

I agree with what you are saying except for your first statement. Any quality u16 club player could walk into an under 16 A GPS team and play as well. We need to stop putting these entitled GPS boys on a pedestal. As you also said these GPS boys were just the lucky ones that have been noticed or their parents could afford to buy them into the GPS culture, there are plenty of other boys out there that are just as good that have not got there break yet. As a GPS graduate I am pleading with everyone to let go of this prejudice against anyone that is not a product of the GPS sausage factory before it destroys this great game. For every boy that is lucky enough to get a bursary/scholarship to one of these school there are at least 4 boy that are as good or better that don't so why does everyone constantly discount them. What a disgrace. Take the silver spoons out of you mouths and open your eyes GPS is killing club rugby just ask any non GPS boy in the U17 BJRU comp who have now probably gone to play league.

Entitled? Pedestals? Silver spoons? and prejudice? FFS. next you will be shouting 'think of the children'!

Most of the families I have come across in AIC (my son) and GPS (my nephews) especially the ones who have been able to benefit from scholarships have come across as being far from any of these things.

Make your mind up mate. Are parents buying into a culture or are they lucky to be on a scholarship?

Blaming school based competitions for the death of U16 club rugby is stupid. Junior club rugby is a shit shoot in the older age groups because the clubs all suffer from a lack of vision when it comes to anything beyond the 'sausage factory' that is the younger age groups. Add that to non-existent player retention strategies it’s a wonder that any of the Brisbane suburban clubs can field a colts team at all.

You are failing to see schoolboy rugby (both GPS and AIC) for what it is - an opportunity and, a highly competitive opportunity at that. I think that the only prejudice I am reading here is yours.

With only a few exceptions, the clubs don’t have anything to blame but themselves. Especially those populated by guys loudly moaning about how unfair the system is. When it comes to the BJRU, all I can say is that it’s a bit like what they say about politics; you get the politician that you deserve.


Either way, I’m thinking that you might want to get someone to have a look at that chip on your shoulder. If you need some help, I know a good orthopaedic surgeon.

 

[Sunny]

Sunny,
I was out and about today watching some junior rugby and ran across a few of the BJRU members. I posed the question that you raised being who now runs the Junior competition QRU or BJRU? They informed that while Jim Carmichael was at the helm there was an attempt of a "hostile takeover" of the BJRU. But the takeover did not succeed as all the club presidents held firm and supported the current structure. Ultimately it was just a cash grab from Jim Carmichael and the club presidents saw through it all. So therefore the BJRU is still run with volunteers with a couple of staff that are based at QRU house and is as it has been for some 30 + years. I also note that many of the BJRU members do not have children amongst the junior ranks, which I personally think is a good thing.

As for your comments regarding the U16 state championship selections being "rigged, "Corrupt". I must say I had a bit of a chuckle over that comment ! I have meet both camps of coaches several times over the years with my own son being involved one of those years. I can assure you that these two camps as they are now "North of the River" and "South of the River" have had a long and lasting, healthy rivalry for over 7 to 10 years now. With them both, it's all about winning and nothing more matters. I'm sure as they have in the past, have been out and about assessing players for several weeks at local club games and school games prior to the selection day. In fact both camps were both out again looking at players and combinations.
Furthermore, I do not believe that these coaches involved in the U16 age group would allow players to be thrust upon them by anyone. I did hear a few years ago this was the case and the coaches in that particular camp told the powers to be to "stick it" and refused to accept that player. This can only be admired I think! You only need to look at the record between these two camps over many years to see that no quarter is given and some of the best junior rugby you'll see with the talent available. I believe last year was the first year ever that either camp did not feature in the grand final. But, I think it was due to a lack of talent available for selection, due to schools not releasing players, costs or just away on holidays. The better years were when the State championships were held in September and all of the best club player were available and not restricted by schools. I think the QRU may need to look at his closely again and move the State Championships back to September as it was.

I sure the odd player may have missed out on selection due to performances on the day or leading up to selections. But I'm confident both camps would have selected players they believe will do the Job. As we all know coaching can be a bit subjective when it comes to selections. Just need to ask Billy Slater in the last State of Origin selections.


Just some food for thought!!

Sorry if this bursts your bubble, it's corrupt how else do 2 boys in the U16 teams that never strapped on the boot this season, nor are they registered, yet there they are one in each team.
Look yourself, go over the BJRU U16 teams and match the players on rugby link web site to their teams list for each round and I'll give you the heads up, they are from Easts...you can also go on rugby link check if a player is currently registered by putting their name in the search box and ticking player option, it very easy.
I am bewildered how this can get past the BJRU, being you must be a REGISTERED PLAYER and to have played in the BJRU comp this year to be eligible for selection.

 

[Tall Paul]

Sorry if this bursts your bubble, it's corrupt how else do 2 boys in the U16 teams that never strapped on the boot this season, nor are they registered, yet there they are one in each team.
Look yourself, go over the BJRU U16 teams and match the players on rugby link web site to their teams list for each round and I'll give you the heads up, they are from Easts.you can also go on rugby link check if a player is currently registered by putting their name in the search box and ticking player option, it very easy.
I am bewildered how this can get past the BJRU, being you must be a REGISTERED PLAYER and to have played in the BJRU comp this year to be eligible for selection.

Isn't there 2 season to the BJRU comp?
It could be that those boys are planning on playing in the 2nd comp

 

[Lute]

The talent pool is shallow,a div one kid may not be a div one kid,most div one teams make up the numbers,quite a few 15 year olds are better then lots of 16 year olds,as a another poster often says "it's a fact"

 

[Sunny]

Isn't there 2 season to the BJRU comp?
It could be that those boys are planning on playing in the 2nd comp

No, doesn't work like that. You must be part of season 1 and financial.
How can you be selected /seen if you haven't played a game?
How is that anyway fair to those that did play?

 

[Sunny]

The talent pool is shallow,a div one kid may not be a div one kid,most div one teams make up the numbers,quite a few 15 year olds are better then lots of 16 year olds,as a another poster often says "it's a fact"

True, maybe like every other season they should have put on their possible and probables and we could have seen, very strange /dodgy not to this year. Why?

 

[Chalkie]

Entitled? Pedestals? Silver spoons? and prejudice? FFS. next you will be shouting 'think of the children'!

Most of the families I have come across in AIC (my son) and GPS (my nephews) especially the ones who have been able to benefit from scholarships have come across as being far from any of these things.

Make your mind up mate. Are parents buying into a culture or are they lucky to be on a scholarship?

Blaming school based competitions for the death of U16 club rugby is stupid. Junior club rugby is a shit shoot in the older age groups because the clubs all suffer from a lack of vision when it comes to anything beyond the 'sausage factory' that is the younger age groups. Add that to non-existent player retention strategies it’s a wonder that any of the Brisbane suburban clubs can field a colts team at all.

You are failing to see schoolboy rugby (both GPS and AIC) for what it is - an opportunity and, a highly competitive opportunity at that. I think that the only prejudice I am reading here is yours.

With only a few exceptions, the clubs don’t have anything to blame but themselves. Especially those populated by guys loudly moaning about how unfair the system is. When it comes to the BJRU, all I can say is that it’s a bit like what they say about politics; you get the politician that you deserve.


Either way, I’m thinking that you might want to get someone to have a look at that chip on your shoulder. If you need some help, I know a good orthopaedic surgeon.

I can see that you are one of the people that has bought into the mistruth that GPS players are better than their non GPS counterparts. Its not the boys that are the problem they are lucky to be part of GPS. The problem is that the cultural norm is that, "oh you dont play GPS you must not be a good player". What a load a shit, I'm glad that your son nephew or whoever is part of GPS but that does not mean they are any better than any other player. Hence the silver spoon comment. It goes way back to my years at IGS, you were always told that only private schools play union and eveyone one else can go play thug ball. I didn't buy into it then and I dont now.

 

[Chalkie]

Entitled? Pedestals? Silver spoons? and prejudice? FFS. next you will be shouting 'think of the children'!

Most of the families I have come across in AIC (my son) and GPS (my nephews) especially the ones who have been able to benefit from scholarships have come across as being far from any of these things.

Make your mind up mate. Are parents buying into a culture or are they lucky to be on a scholarship?

Blaming school based competitions for the death of U16 club rugby is stupid. Junior club rugby is a shit shoot in the older age groups because the clubs all suffer from a lack of vision when it comes to anything beyond the 'sausage factory' that is the younger age groups. Add that to non-existent player retention strategies it’s a wonder that any of the Brisbane suburban clubs can field a colts team at all.

You are failing to see schoolboy rugby (both GPS and AIC) for what it is - an opportunity and, a highly competitive opportunity at that. I think that the only prejudice I am reading here is yours.

With only a few exceptions, the clubs don’t have anything to blame but themselves. Especially those populated by guys loudly moaning about how unfair the system is. When it comes to the BJRU, all I can say is that it’s a bit like what they say about politics; you get the politician that you deserve.


Either way, I’m thinking that you might want to get someone to have a look at that chip on your shoulder. If you need some help, I know a good orthopaedic surgeon.

I would like to clarify that I think the private school rugby system is great for those that are involved and I don't disagree that a lot of the blame for the state of rugby lies with the management such as the BJRU. My only issue is with the BS that non GPS boys are some how not as good as GPS players. People need to stop putting GPS players above everyone else and make Rugby the inclusive sport that League is and then and only then will rugby move forward in this country.

 

[Garry Owens]

Geez all I said was Jehovah !