British & Irish Lions tour of New Zealand (2017)

[waiopehu oldboy]

The 12th British & Irish Lions tour of New Zealand (or 11th depending on how one views the 1908 tour that Scotland & Ireland chose not to participate in) is taking shape with the fixtures list & B&IL coaching staff confirmed:

Fixtures

Sat 3 Jun v Provincial Unions, Whangarei
Wed 7 Jun v Blues, Auckland
Sat 10 Jun v Crusaders, Christchurch
Tue 13 Jun v Highlanders, Dunedin
Sat 17 Jun v Maori All Blacks, Rotorua
Tue 20 Jun v Chiefs, Hamilton
SAT 24 JUN v ALL BLACKS, AUCKLAND
Tue 27 Jun v Hurricanes, Wellington
SAT 1 JUL v ALL BLACKS, WELLINGTON
SAT 8 JUL v ALL BLACKS, AUCKLAND

Sir Clive Woodward brought an unprecedented 44 players in 2005 for an arguably much less demanding schedule (3 tests, Maori All Blacks & seven provincial sides). The mind boggles at how many Gatland may feel he needs to tackle his itinerary!

Lions coaching staff:
Head Coach: Warren Gatland (Wales)
Assistants: Rob Howley (Wales - backs), Steve Borthwick (England - forwards), Andy Farrell (Ireland - defence)

Previous tours
1904 (British Isles) played 1 test, won by NZ
1908 (Anglo-Welsh) 3 tests, NZ won series 2-0
1930 (British Isles) 4 tests, NZ won series 3-1
1950 (British Isles) 4 tests, NZ won series 3-0
1959 (British Isles) 4 tests, NZ won series 3-1
1966 (British Isles) 4 tests, NZ won series 4-0
1971 (British Isles) 4 tests, Lions won series 2-1
1977 (British Isles) 4 tests, NZ won series 3-1
1983 (British Isles) 4 tests, NZ won series 4-0
1993 (British Isles) 3 tests, NZ won series 2-1
2005 (British & Irish Lions) 3 tests, NZ won series 3-0

Overall NZ have won 29 of the 38 matches & 9 of the 10 series (or 27 of 35 & 8 of 9 excluding the Anglo-Welsh). The 1904 match was tacked on to the Lions tour of Australia where they won all 3 tests. Some of the subsequent tours had a match in Australia tacked on before or after the NZ segment, the next Australia-only tour wasn't until 1989.

 

[Twoilms]

I'll start with a possible backline for the B&IL

9. Youngs
10. Sexton
11. North
12. Henshaw
13. Joseph
14. Watson
15. Hogg

 

[wamberal]

This series will be won and lost up front.


That is why I reckon the Lions will win it.

 

[fatprop]

I wouldn't get too excited about who "could" play.

The preliminary games will cull 7 or 12 from the possibles as they fly home wounded

 

[USARugger]

Well, not a lot of mystery around how their attack is going to shape up.

 

[Antony]

I'll start with a possible backline for the B&IL

9. Youngs
10. Sexton
11. North
12. Henshaw
13. Joseph
14. Watson
15. Hogg

There's got to be a pretty big chance Ford or Farrell will play 10, and I'd sub in Zebo for Watson.

 

[KevinO]

I'll start with a possible backline for the B&IL

9. Youngs
10. Sexton
11. North
12. Henshaw
13. Joseph
14. Watson
15. Hogg

Going off November.


9. Murray (Two games against NZ were outstanding, outplayed both Smith and TJ)
10. Sexton (If fit, if not Ford would be my pick)
11. Watson
12. Henshaw (Best 12 in Europe at the moment)
13. Joseph
14. Zebo
15. Brown

North is out, possibly being forced to retire from concussions injuries. Don't see him recovering and having a impact worthy of a spot.

Wales had a poor 6 Nations, got spanked 3 times by NZ and by the Wallabies. Can't count the win of the Boks or Pumas as anything special when they only just beat Japan. Would not be selecting to many from that squad.

I'd expect a few Scottish to make up the bench, don't think anyone but Hogg has a chance of starting.

England and Ireland should make up majority of the squad, with recent match experience against the All Blacks any 50/50 calls should go the way of the Irish. That match experience will be important, some of the English players in contention have never faced the All Blacks.

 

[zer0]

10 matches, 9 against completely professional teams, 5 against nigh full strength franchises, 1 test match in all but name against the Maori and 3 proper tests. All in the space of a little over a month.

Here we can see Dr E.Idle, B&I Lions team doctor, following the final whistle at the end of the second test match:

 

[Quick Hands]

The 12th British & Irish Lions tour of New Zealand (or 11th depending on how one views the 1908 tour that Scotland & Ireland chose not to participate in) is taking shape with the fixtures list & B&IL coaching staff confirmed:

Fixtures

Sat 3 Jun v Provincial Unions, Whangarei
Wed 7 Jun v Blues, Auckland
Sat 10 Jun v Crusaders, Christchurch
Tue 13 Jun v Highlanders, Dunedin
Sat 17 Jun v Maori All Blacks, Rotorua
Tue 20 Jun v Chiefs, Hamilton
SAT 24 JUN v ALL BLACKS, AUCKLAND
Tue 27 Jun v Hurricanes, Wellington
SAT 1 JUL v ALL BLACKS, WELLINGTON
SAT 8 JUL v ALL BLACKS, AUCKLAND

I also notice that the Kiwi super teams play a full round on the 3 June, 3 of the 5 teams have a bye the following week (only Hurricances v Chiefs on 9 Jun), then the next games involving NZ teams aren't until the 14 July.

One assumes that full the Blues, Crusaders and Highlanders will field full strength teams against BIL and that AB players would miss the mid week matches against Chiefs and Hurricanes (both of which are 4 days before test matches).

An imposing schedule to say the least.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0f1211o9d2qz5g6/2017 Super Rugby draw.pdf?dl=0

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^^^^^^^^^^^^ pretty sure Shag is on record as saying he'll only release AB back to the Super sides if he's returning from injury & in need of some game time.

10 matches, 9 against completely professional teams, 5 against nigh full strength franchises, 1 test match in all but name against the Maori and 3 proper tests. All in the space of a little over a month.

Here we can see Dr E.Idle, B&I Lions team doctor, following the final whistle at the end of the second test match:

"Provincial Unions" sounds like players who aren't signed to a Super franchise so if the Lions don't win that convincingly we'll know they're in trouble. That said I'm sure the guys who do play will view it as a chance to knock down a selection door or two.....

Likewise the (probably mostly) AB-free Super teams, every guy out there will be playing possibly the biggest game of their careers with the possibility of making a name for themselves.

Likewise but moreso the Maori, who will also have the added incentive of adding to their impressive record v touring teams. That's something they're rightly very proud of & will give it everything to maintain. Gunna be a tough five weeks down under!

 

[zer0]

Pretty sure I recall reading that only the very top tier AB's will be held back, with most being available for the franchise games. Will try and track down a source (assuming it exists and I'm not mis-remembering) tomorrow.

 

[Quick Hands]

I wouldn't get too excited about who "could" play.

The preliminary games will cull 7 or 12 from the possibles as they fly home wounded

You mean like this?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=10124789

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Great find, @QH!

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

On the fixtures list, I get why they're double-dipping at Eden Park but all it does is remind me that, almost SIX YEARS on from the main Canterbury earthquake, Lancaster Park STILL looks like this:

Fuckin' criminal IMO

Also Christchurch CC has just come to the conclusion that it's uneconomical to repair the old girl (Gee, really? You think? After only six years you've come to that conclusion? Good to see you're not rushing to hasty conclusions) AND pushed their funding contribution to the 35K-seat replacement out to FY 2021-22. Oh well, maybe if the B&IL are still around in 2029 there'll be a Test on the Mainland.............

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/87335370/christchurchs-lancaster-park-uneconomic-to-repair

 

[Quick Hands]

^^^^Unbelievable that nothing has yet been done about this.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

TBF they had to wait for the initial subsidence to stabilise but that happened ~3 years ago so there's no PRACTICAL reason for the stands to be still standing, it's all about money & IMO the fact that the current gov't doesn't really care about the South in general & mostly Labour-voting Christchurch in particular: whomever wins Auckland wins the election & all that. New PM (as of Monday) likely to be Bill English, nominally a Southland man, so maybe things might change. Or not, rebuilding the Picton-Christchurch highway & railway line after the more recent 'quake sequence is gunna cost billions & TBF is way more of a priority than a footy stadium. That said, they could've at least had the funding in place by now & done the preliminary ground-clearance work.

EDIT: no more quasi-political rants by me on this thread. Pinky-promise

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Back in '05 SCW pretty much brought two teams out, one for the Saturday matches & another for the mid-week. Didn't really work for him IIRC, even allowing for the inevitable injuries: reports of it all becoming a bit of an infighting-ridden shambles towards the end (results tending to confirm )

I wonder if Gatland can somehow wrangle what seems sure to be a squad of ~50 without creating those kinds of divisions, as well as finding a unifying captain.

 

[Quick Hands]

Lancaster Park during the 1977 BIL tour (I think that they were simply known as the British Lions in those days)

 

[Quick Hands]

Final test of the 1971 tour - with a very posh English commentator.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Lancaster Park during the 1977 BIL tour (I think that they were simply known as the British Lions in those days)

All Black legend Colin Farrell's second & final Test IIRC, AB's found themselves a proper fullback for T3

Final test of the 1971 tour - with a very posh English commentator.

Awesome 45m JPR droppy saved the series & pretty much created the legend of the all-conquering ''71ers which looks less convincing when one factors in the five-tries-to-two, 12-22 pummelling at, of all places, Lancaster Park. Ian Kirkpatrick's try still rates in the all-time top-20 IMO.

Still remember the audio, "and away goes Kirkpatrick upfield with it......" High rotation in the then-future WOB household circa early/ mid '70's