Broadcast options for Australian Rugby

[JRugby2]

I reckon this is probably one of Buzz's main points though - the scrum resets are probably the biggest complaint of people who find rugby hard to watch. Even the painted-on fans get frustrated when we spend a couple of minutes re-packing scrums.

And it is probably a fair point - when you look at the rule variations that rugby has brought in over the past decade, a lot of them are about lessening the amount of scrums or giving teams the choice to have a scrum or not.

Yep - I'd be a big fan if in professional rugby we ruled that the clock was automatically stopped upon reset.

In most places around the world, we could automate timekeeping to reduce the burden on onfield referees to manage this.

 

[Major Tom]

Ball in play without context is a bit shit as well, especially considering we have a real set piece with specialists skills (and time) required to execute these (which will account for the largest amount of time lost) - and more penalties, but again in Rugby, penalties can be won or forced to a significantly greater proportion to which they can in League.

BUT, rugby could do better in this area.

- Time off between scoring kicks and kick offs
- Time off between scrum resets, as two obvious examples that also won't blow out the actual run time of a game

I reckon the time between scoring a try and the kick off is pretty quick compared to league. I don’t watch league but when watching SoO I was actually blown away how long it takes between scoring a try, having a shot at goal and then a kick restart. That fit the adds in between them all.
Rugby just needs to get quicker with reviewing tries / foul play. But at the same time you’ve gotta get it right.

 

[Rob42]

Yep - I'd be a big fan if in professional rugby we ruled that the clock was automatically stopped upon reset.

In most places around the world, we could automate timekeeping to reduce the burden on onfield referees to manage this.

I don't think stopping the clock fixes the problem - scrum resets are still wasted time with no action even if it doesn't come off the game clock. Some Super Rugby played in poor conditions would be interminably long if this was the case.

 

[JRugby2]

I reckon the time between scoring a try and the kick off is pretty quick compared to league. I don’t watch league but when watching SoO I was actually blown away how long it takes between scoring a try, having a shot at goal and then a kick restart. That fit the adds in between them all.
Rugby just needs to get quicker with reviewing tries / foul play. But at the same time you’ve gotta get it right.

Maybe, but it's still eaten time. For TMO reviews the clock is stopped anyway so we don't lose time.

Someone might correct me but I I'd guess there would be on average 25s between kick at goal and kick off (of an allowed 30s) - so for the Wallabies vs Lions - that's nearly 4 minutes of BIP time lost on the weekend where the NRL would have just stopped the clock.

The NRL will also blow time off at 1:20s from the time of a try scored if the conversion hasn't happened (less relevant to the example since rugby is now 60s max allowed and we'll just wave away the kick).

 

[Major Tom]

Maybe, but it's still eaten time. For TMO reviews the clock is stopped anyway so we don't lose time.

Someone might correct me but I I'd guess there would be on average 25s between kick at goal and kick off (of an allowed 30s) - so for the Wallabies vs Lions - that's nearly 4 minutes of BIP time lost on the weekend where the NRL would have just stopped the clock.

The NRL will also blow time off at 1:20s from the time of a try scored if the conversion hasn't happened (less relevant to the example since rugby is now 60s max allowed and we'll just wave away the kick).

Still takes ages in league to restart the game. Stop the clock all you want but I was literally gobsmackes with how long it took to restart after a try. Felt like minutes!

 

[PhilClinton]

Yep - I'd be a big fan if in professional rugby we ruled that the clock was automatically stopped upon reset.

In most places around the world, we could automate timekeeping to reduce the burden on onfield referees to manage this.

I think more likely we will move to a limit on the number of resets.

E.g. on the third reset it becomes a short arm to the team in possession, but the halfback must pass the ball away from the scrum zone or kick the ball to touch and doesn't get the benefit of a quick tap and run as there hasn't been an actual infringement.

 

[JRugby2]

I don't think stopping the clock fixes the problem - scrum resets are still wasted time with no action even if it doesn't come off the game clock. Some Super Rugby played in poor conditions would be interminably long if this was the case.

I'm specifically referring to the discrepancies highlight in the Buzz article re Ball In Play time - so it's quite literally not wasted time if we stop the clock.

Should we try to figure out a solution to preventing as many scrum resets, and are scrum resets boring for the average fan - absolutely - but this could be an overnight fix that detracts nothing from our current reality.

 

[JRugby2]

Still takes ages in league to restart the game. Stop the clock all you want but I was literally gobsmackes with how long it took to restart after a try. Felt like minutes!

Yep, but to be clear this is a different point to the one I'm making.

 

[Strewthcobber]

I watched the game with a bunch of kids old enough for the 8pm kick-off - none of them made it to the end. The last thing wee need to more time stoppages with games taking longer. They are already over 2 hours.

The issue with rugby isn't the ball-in-play time, it's the long ball-out-of-play times. The penalty at 75mins was a classic example. We all just stand around until the 1 min is up because the Lions are killing time. kids = zzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[Major Tom]

Yep, but to be clear this is a different point to the one I'm making.

Yeah I’m just ranting about league v rugby product in general. Always hear how league is faster blah blah blah.

 

[JRugby2]

I think more likely we will move to a limit on the number of resets.

E.g. on the third reset it becomes a short arm to the team in possession, but the halfback must pass the ball away from the scrum zone or kick the ball to touch and doesn't get the benefit of a quick tap and run as there hasn't been an actual infringement.

I don't think this will happen.

Goes against the ethos of rugby that everything is a contest if we arbitrarily hand possession to a team just to start playing. There will be massive amounts of stakeholder pushback.

 

[PhilClinton]

I don't think this will happen.

Goes against the ethos of rugby that everything is a contest if we arbitrarily hand possession to a team just to start playing. There will be massive amounts of stakeholder pushback.

I take your point - but you need to remember the baseline of why we have scrums and lineouts is to provide a way to restart play, not because we want to see who can win a penalty. The longer the scrum contest goes on, whether the game clock is on or not, the longer we are taking to restart play.

 

[JRugby2]

I watched the game with a bunch of kids old enough for the 8pm kick-off - none of them made it to the end. The last thing wee need to more time stoppages with games taking longer. They are already over 2 hours.

The issue with rugby isn't the ball-in-play time, it's the long ball-out-of-play times. The penalty at 75mins was a classic example. We all just stand around until the 1 min is up because the Lions are killing time. kids = zzzzzzzzzzzzz

I don't think those 2 examples I gave would dramatically increase the overall run time of the game.

A scrum reset (time between whistle and crouch) might save / extend the run time of the game by 30s per scrum - and with 8 scoring plays on the weekend we find another 4 minutes of rugby stopping between scoring kicks and kick offs. Probably extends it by 10 minutes max, and could be offset by more strict enforcement of time wasting (eg: 15 seconds to choose an option anytime one is needed to be made).

 

[Dctarget]

rugby is fine, it's a good product. It's a quick game, ball in play is high. People get around NFL which is much slower. Basketball and AFL are hugely popular and they go forever. No matter of tweaking the game will make it popular in Aus. The young generation in France are all rugby mad. The wallabies win the Bled for a few years would be the best outcome. But even that wouldn't shift the dial too much, NRL and AFL are way too ingrained in a relatively small country.

 

[qrwat]

It's a story of one - but - I watched the game on Saturday with 4 mates and our families. We each have 14 year old boys that play rugby at school, none of them have ever played League.

The boys popped in and out to check the score periodically but otherwise chose to sit around the fire and chat rather than watch the game. The same group were glued to the SOO a few weeks ago even though none of them have any direct connection to League.

I was trying to understand why and could only put it down to the fact that rugby, and even the Lions series as a spectacle, aren't in the face of the casual sports fan, or being talked about by their mates at school, in Australia because of our recent performances. crowded market, pay TV, insert 8 more reasons here.....

 

[Micheal]

It's a story of one - but - I watched the game on Saturday with 4 mates and our families. We each have 14 year old boys that play rugby at school, none of them have ever played League.

The boys popped in and out to check the score periodically but otherwise chose to sit around the fire and chat rather than watch the game. The same group were glued to the SOO a few weeks ago even though none of them have any direct connection to League.

I was trying to understand why and could only put it down to the fact that rugby, and even the Lions series as a spectacle, aren't in the face of the casual sports fan, or being talked about by their mates at school, in Australia because of our recent performances. crowded market, pay TV, insert 8 more reasons here.....

Part of this is the failure of rugby to participate in modern media, e.g. podcasting and on short-form entertainment platforms (e.g. TikTok, Instagram Reels etc.)

I find myself increasingly interested in the NRL (and the NBA for that matter) because I'm constantly fed podcasts and highlights on these platforms, which serve to build narratives. There is almost no concerted attempt at narrative building in Australian rugby, but it's something that they could look for inspiration in other sports (e.g. the UFC of yesteryear was incredible at this, studying someone like Ariel Helwani would be grea too).

In terms of new media we only really have the KOKO boys. After that, the greatest servants to new rugby media in this country are legitimately Hello Sport (originally an NRL podcast who occassionally mentions Union) and The Betoota Advocate.

Outside of that? Nada.

If you look at the NRL, seemingly every ex-player has a podcast, and every current player has a YouTube channel.

Rugby Australia has to find a way to involve (or better yet, incentivise) players to take responsibility for growing and communicating the game -- every other sport has moved in that direction, but we still completely rely on centralised media arms and comms teams that are woefully behind the 8 ball.

 

[JRugby2]

Part of this is the failure of rugby to participate in modern media, e.g. podcasting and on short-form entertainment platforms (e.g. TikTok, Instagram Reels etc.)

I find myself increasingly interested in the NRL (and the NBA for that matter) because I'm constantly fed podcasts and highlights on these platforms, which serve to build narratives. There is almost no concerted attempt at narrative building in Australian rugby, but it's something that they could look for inspiration in other sports (e.g. the UFC of yesteryear was incredible at this, studying someone like Ariel Helwani would be grea too).

In terms of new media we only really have the KOKO boys. After that, the greatest servants to new rugby media in this country are legitimately Hello Sport (originally an NRL podcast who occassionally mentions Union) and The Betoota Advocate.

Outside of that? Nada.

If you look at the NRL, seemingly every ex-player has a podcast, and every current player has a YouTube channel.

Rugby Australia has to find a way to involve (or better yet, incentivise) players to take responsibility for growing and communicating the game -- every other sport has moved in that direction, but we still completely rely on centralised media arms and comms teams that are woefully behind the 8 ball.

Rugby has a number of podcasts made about it weekly, produced by an array of types.

But what you're pointing out isn't the direct fault of RA. A number of the popular podcasts or social media accounts that focus on other codes are first and foremost creator led, without any direct influence or incentive by said codes, and so if we want the same thing it's not up to RA to start them.

They are popular because they aren't directly connected to the governing bodies and therefore free from influence. RA leading that charge would be antithetical to potential popularity and cut through.

 

[Omar Comin']

I think one thing the broadcasters and pundits could do better at is to illustrate and explain what's going on tactically at the scrums and lineouts. These are interesting and unique facets of the game with a lot that can be highlighted from a technical and strategic perspective. We should lean into the fact rugby is more complex, with more tactical elements than rugby league and AFL (and this is mostly due to the fact it is more stop start with more set pieces and longer play books).

 

[Strewthcobber]

I think one thing the broadcasters and pundits could do better at is to illustrate and explain what's going on tactically at the scrums and lineouts. These are interesting and unique facets of the game with a lot that can be highlighted from a technical and strategic perspective. We should lean into the fact rugby is more complex, with more tactical elements than rugby league and AFL (and this is mostly due to the fact it is more stop start with more set pieces and longer play books).

Get the production team over to the NFL, work out how they can almost instantly get a replay up after every play with the critical blocker highlighted, and employ a pundit that can clearly explain what's happening.

Goog actually did a pretty good job on one of the scrum penalties last week, describing how the Lions LH was caught coming in at an angle. Except he used terminology that only rugby tragics could understand, and gave no visual clues as to where he wanted the TV viewers to be looking

 

[jason08]

rugby is fine, it's a good product. It's a quick game, ball in play is high. People get around NFL which is much slower. Basketball and AFL are hugely popular and they go forever. No matter of tweaking the game will make it popular in Aus. The young generation in France are all rugby mad. The wallabies win the Bled for a few years would be the best outcome. But even that wouldn't shift the dial too much, NRL and AFL are way too ingrained in a relatively small country.

Very true. Soccer is the most popular sport in the world, with games lasting 90mins plus injury time. Cricket is hugely popular and it's short form goes forever. This "ball in play" stuff is something usually only brought up by league fans, purely to say how great league is, how crap rugby is etc etc