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CAS Rugby 2012

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Snort

Nev Cottrell (35)
Look, this forum is interesting when people post accurate information and reasoned opinion. Neither of those things happens when, in the space of a couple of posts, someone says that (a) the Barker 2nd XV prop will start in 1sts at "five eight" this week on his way to the CAS 1sts and (b) the player who is almost certain to play 10 for CAS 1sts will be outplayed this Saturday by a different Barker 10. Now, either of those might be a worthwhile opinion (they're not, but they might be), but if you post them both together, then they're nonsense. And if you post them with an allegation that one player will advance because of who his father is, they're nasty nonsense. Clear?
 

Eshayz

Sydney Middleton (9)
I agree with snort and RTD, I'm Getting fairly annoyed with these annoying posts about individuals and their comebacks from injury when they're clearly not true. Can we just keep it to the games about to happen.

Ontop of the trinity game this week I think waverley might be a very interesting game to watch, they will either dominate or have a close encounter as maybe other schools realise their weakness after barkers unexpected win. I think waverley are really going to have to work hard to make their way back up to the top two.
 

Snort

Nev Cottrell (35)
OK, so this weekend.

Here's the interesting thing about the competition table: it says that Barker is winning on defence. In four games, Waverley has run in a massive 148 points, Trinity 114, Barker only 91. But Barker has allowed only 42 points. In the modern game, that's quite phenomenal. What it tells me is that Barker is controlling possession and playing with great discipline, plus of course its defensive patterns are sound and individual defenders are doing their jobs.

In contrast, Trinity has leaked 106 points in four games - 26.5 a game. That's quite a mountain to climb - it pretty much means you need to score four tries a game to win. Barker has allowed five tries in four games so far. And what makes Saturday especially interesting is that Barker's strengths are Trinity's weaknesses. Trinity's forwards have not been good at securing and holding possession (although, in fairness, their retention of possession was much improved against Cranbrook); Trinity's discipline has been poor (a yellow card in nearly every game this season); and although individual tacklers do their jobs, the defensive patterns out wide have been a bit of a shambles.

To beat Barker, Trinity has to neutralise Barker's strengths, which means holding their own in the forwards and winning - oh, let's not get too excited - two-thirds of their own lineout ball. It must break Clark's heart when he drills a penalty kick fifty yards into the oppostion's corner, only to see his forwards fail to secure the lineout ball. It means matching Barker's discipline and commitment in defence.

Not sure if I can get there, but it should be quite a game.

St Aloysius and Waverley will be good to watch. Waverley is starting to look like the kind of team that can wallop you if they win enough ball, but don't have a Plan B if they're short on possession. I suspect they will win enough ball against Alos for the backs to do their thing. Knox and Cranbrook is a toss-up, and I guess it depends which Knox team shows up - the fired-up version that smashed Trinity, or the crew that succumbed to Waverley. Cranbrook will see this as their best chance in a while to beat Knox and (like Alos last week) will make a big effort to seize that opportunity.
 

Man on the hill

Alex Ross (28)
OK, so this weekend.

Not sure if I can get there, but it should be quite a game.

St Aloysius and Waverley will be good to watch. Waverley is starting to look like the kind of team that can wallop you if they win enough ball, but don't have a Plan B if they're short on possession. I suspect they will win enough ball against Alos for the backs to do their thing. Knox and Cranbrook is a toss-up, and I guess it depends which Knox team shows up - the fired-up version that smashed Trinity, or the crew that succumbed to Waverley. Cranbrook will see this as their best chance in a while to beat Knox and (like Alos last week) will make a big effort to seize that opportunity.

No doubt the round of the season so far with almost every team's fortunes reliant on their preformance this week.

Who would have thought that (not withstanding Barker's thus far clean sheet) that all 3 games appear to be up for grabs!

Barker win and they pretty much have it in the bag (at the least a share of it) at the half way mark.

Trinity - playing to redeem what many early season pundits thought was likely to be an even bigger clean sweep than last year. Oh so close - but with the expected return of Clunies, I'll back Trinity - he's the calm and spark that they appear to have lacked so far this year.

Knox - playing to avoid a loss to Cranbrook and to redeem themselves after a close loss to Aloys last week. Cranbrook caught Trinity on the bounce; comepeted early on and got swamped in the second half. Cranbrook in a close one.

Waverley / Aloys - Waverley yet to show who they are after an on again, off again start to theseason. And Aloys the surpise packet of the season - another nail biter, with Waverley to take the points.
 

It is what it is

John Solomon (38)
Yes Barker do have a strong scrum, line out and rolling maul and plenty of size about them.
Smart teams will tap quick taps and run them around, drill the blindside to suck their forwards in (including their flanker who is permanently positioned in the centres in defence) and exploit Barker's shaky backline defence. Run them around as "fatigue makes cowards of us all".
Short lineouts with pre-determined calls to negate their star jumper, channel 1 scrum ball to clear quickly will help too, but you must have the composure to starve them of possession.
If you want to play them stop/start, with slow set pieces, kicking to touch and walking to line outs i.e. a game with lots of breaks, you're playing into their hands.
I'd refrain from kicking but if forced, I'd put the bubbling ball in along the ground to the fullback and put him under pressure....he has some good running skills but is erratic and makes questionable decisions under pressure.
 

Eshayz

Sydney Middleton (9)
I'll be at the trinity game and honestly I think barker may fall bac a bit after last weeks win. I'd call trinity just up by 5.
 

Newbie

Bill McLean (32)
Where is the Trinty game at, please tell its at 'Slummer Hill' (and yes the pun is intended as the suburb itself was once upon a time my old stomping ground when the surrounding district was slightly more working class ... Lol).

I'm hoping so because I haven't had the time to wash my helicopter in order to fly up to Barker. I could drive I suppose but then I may as well fly Jetstar to the Gold Coast and catch the bus down and make a weekend trip of it! Dilemmas, dilemmas!
 

Man on the hill

Alex Ross (28)
Where is the Trinty game at, please tell its at 'Slummer Hill'...

I'm hoping so because I haven't had the time to wash my helicopter in order to fly up to Barker. I could drive I suppose but then I may as well fly Jetstar to the Gold Coast and catch the bus down and make a weekend trip of it! Dilemmas, dilemmas!

Sorry newbie - get Jeeves to roll out the chopper!

Regards

MOTH
 

Eshayz

Sydney Middleton (9)
Rain may pose a huge deal of trouble for all games today. I know barkers no1 field is getting a workout. Players will have to be smart and keep their hands on the ball, otherwise it'll be a game full of knock ons.
 
A

Aussie School Boys Player

Guest
Wat were the results of the rest of the games today?
Knox 30 cranbrook 17
 

Eshayz

Sydney Middleton (9)
Barker 25 - 15 Trinity . Good tussle between the teams, trinity forwards put on a big show but barker was strong all around the field
 

pigprop

Peter Burge (5)
UP THE REDS
Barker basically CAS PREMIERS OF 2012
UNDEFEATED
25-12- Barker forwards domination lead to victory!
 

ABOYS2012

Bob McCowan (2)
Aloys 11 - 17 Waverley

As i'm sure all games experienced, the rain made for a tough game. An early penalty from Aloys had them on the front foot, but despite the rain, Paterson played very well for Waverley, scoring the opening try. The game went into half time with Aloys 8 - 10 Waverley with number 8, Eliot Stuntz, scoring an intercept to narrrow the scores for Aloysius. Poor discipline from both teams saw multiple kicks at goal, also resulting in many missed penalty opportunities from both sides. Waervley's inside centre, Number 5 and 15 had very good games. Mitch Wood (7), Harrison Williams, Luke Vevers and Dylan Goodearl (12) were stand outs for Aloys.

Many tight games for the Aloys team so far this season with a few close losses. It will be interesting to see how they perform against what seems to be an out-of-form Trinity side.
 

Fairpoint

Stan Wickham (3)
In response to ABOYS comment, Aloys close calls are all too common, last year, the years before and this year too. It's no different from the normal aloysius style of play, And referring to your trinity comment, I was out at barker today and this team is coming together, holding barker to a 10 point difference and never in the whole game showed signs of giving up.

Now, selections tomorrow. All the best to everyone, I'm sure a few interesting selections will be chosen given the open competition apart from barker.
 

Newbie

Bill McLean (32)
UP THE REDS
Barker basically CAS PREMIERS OF 2012
UNDEFEATED
25-12- Barker forwards domination lead to victory!

I know my sparring partner MOTH will add to my comments, however it was my view at the end of last season that Trinity were going to be a formidable unit in 2012 (surpassing even the class of 2011).

This is a team that has been carefully assembled, trained and prepared from my understanding and I am at a loss to explain how the Trinity season seems to be falling apart. I have personally seen most of these lads play at all level of competition over the last two years and each is a gifted and talented player in his own right!

Is it a case of the mix not being right? For example it well known among Sport Psychologists that having to many stars in one team can be detrimental if all within the team are not acutely aware of the role they have to perform within the group and operate outside their sphere of influence (e.g., the fly half takes it upon himself to go to the line all the time instead of spreading it wide to a waiting and capable back line).

Perhaps it is a case of that trite cliche, 'A CHAMPION TEAM WILL ALWAYS BEAT A TEAM OF CHAMPIONS'!

What the thoughts of others?
 

Snort

Nev Cottrell (35)
Turns out that the stats don't lie. See a few posts above - if you went on the Barker and Trinity defence stats you'd have expected Trinity to allow 26 points and Barker to give away 11 - so 25-15 isn't far off.

I only saw the last half hour or so (it was 15-5 when I got there). Trinity had to play catch-up and couldn't in the wet conditions. Barker's better control in the forwards seemed to be the difference, with the big 5 going over from close range. Trinity's go-to move (Whicker's inside ball to Malaki) brought Trinity back within range but the result was fair and should seal the premiership for Barker.

CAS tips? It was too wet and dark to tell much. The Barker centres were strong and should be in contention; the fly-half was very quiet and gave away a silly penalty when he ran behind a decoy runner. For Trinity, Clunies-Ross got through the game and made one great run while I was there. I'd have him in the team. But there will be lots of blue and red socks around him.
 

no9

Ted Fahey (11)
I know my sparring partner MOTH will add to my comments, however it was my view at the end of last season that Trinity were going to be a formidable unit in 2012 (surpassing even the class of 2011).

This is a team that has been carefully assembled, trained and prepared from my understanding and I am at a loss to explain how the Trinity season seems to be falling apart. I have personally seen most of these lads play at all level of competition over the last two years and each is a gifted and talented player in his own right!

Is it a case of the mix not being right? For example it well known among Sport Psychologists that having to many stars in one team can be detrimental if all within the team are not acutely aware of the role they have to perform within the group and operate outside their sphere of influence (e.g., the fly half takes it upon himself to go to the line all the time instead of spreading it wide to a waiting and capable back line).

Perhaps it is a case of that trite cliche, 'A CHAMPION TEAM WILL ALWAYS BEAT A TEAM OF CHAMPIONS'!

What the thoughts of others?

Maybe they're just not as good as they or others think. The form from the St Pat's trial has stuck and not improved.
 

CTPE

Nev Cottrell (35)
Given that backs go nowhere without a dominant forward platform it's hard to believe that a pack consisting of Morsello, Satiu, McLean, Afele, Orr, etc has not delivered that platform or is it that Trinity's 2012 backs lack the talent to take advantage of what's been delivered to them?
 

Snort

Nev Cottrell (35)
Maybe they're just not as good as they or others think. The form from the St Pat's trial has stuck and not improved.

I think it's slightly more complicated than that.

Essentially the Trinity pack has half a dozen very gifted props. Only two can play there, so McLean and Malaki play second row, Morsello at hooker and Ola at No8. That's maybe a little harsh on Malaki and Ola, but neither has quite the mobility you'd ideally want in a back-row forward. This leads to two problems: a lack of genuine lineout strength (and that's putting it kindly) and a lack of presence at the breakdown - Trinity just doesn't get the numbers there, and doesn't have a genuine open-side flier. The result is that continuity of possession is hard to come by.

So, you have a forward pack full of gifted individuals who don't quite add up to a formidable pack because they don't have the ability to monopolise possession. The players I mentioned are all excellent footballers, in my view. If you had a genuine lineout jumper (Harb is OK, and works hard, but no-one fears him) and a genuine open-side (hurst is a whole-hearter player, but doesn't dominate) it might just work. Mae, who was just about the only player from last year's Trinity team not to play CAS, would be a godsend to this side, because of his speed to the breakdown.

The backs? Well, to be fair, they don't get much good ball. There's a problem at scrum-half. Whicker played another really good game today: he's industrious, defends, tidies up loose ball and runs strongly and bravely. But the one skill he really needs - the ability to send the ball to the spot where his fly-half can run onto it without breaking stride - just eludes him. A lot of Trinity's backline moves falter because they start with Clark hauling in a pass from over his head. I know I bang on about this, and I take no pleasure in criticising a gutsy and talented player, but I think he may be a fantastic footballer who happens not to be very well suited to the position he plays (I thought this about George Gregan, too, so I guess he's in good company).

Clark I think has done a good job under the circumstances. He has a heap of skill, kicks well, and has defended bravely and effectively this year. But outside him there's a revolving door of players. Mostly because of injuries, Trinity has not fielded the same back line two games running (and that's in eight or nine games). Finn has talent to burn, but dies a lot with the ball. Roberts has heaps of pace but never gets the ball in space. Clunies-Ross is brilliant, but has played only one of five competition games. Early in the year, Trinity worked up a heap of moves that involved Clark bringing Clunies-Ross into the line, or occasionally using him as a decoy and releasing Finn. There hasn't really been much opportunity to use those moves.

That's my take on it anyway. I don't think it's a reflection on the personalities, or big heads, or lack of desire. I just think it's that the mix is missing a couple of important ingredients. Barker, in contrast, seem to lack the explosive individual talents that Trinity has, but have great balance and discipline and really solid basics. They will not run up fifty points against anyone this year. But quite possibly no-one will put twenty on them either.

Footnote: As Barker defended its line in the second half today, one of the Barker forwards yelled repeatedly and loudly: "Come on, let's f%&k these c^%#s up!" Am I just getting old, or is this a bit too unpleasant for schoolboy Rugby?
 
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