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CAS Rugby 2014

abe01

Frank Nicholson (4)
Does anyone know the record for the most tries in a CAS season? Whatever it was Widders-Leece must surely have broken it now.
Would be interesting to see all top try scorers and point scorers over the years. Is the information available anywhere?
 

SonnyDillWilliams

Nev Cottrell (35)
Widders-lee is another who IMHO should consider himself unlucky not to be an Aussie schoolboy

Probably just missed out, because a particularly good year for hookers ... Is he in the shadow squad?
 

Elfster

Jim Clark (26)
Widders-lee is another who IMHO should consider himself unlucky not to be an Aussie schoolboy

Probably just missed out, because a particularly good year for hookers . Is he in the shadow squad?

In the immediate term I think the 7's side could look at him. He has speed, strength, passion and good football nous to be effective there I think.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Staff member
Widders-lee is another who IMHO should consider himself unlucky not to be an Aussie schoolboy

Probably just missed out, because a particularly good year for hookers . Is he in the shadow squad?

JWL was rated behind hookers Craig, Pritchard and Serhon by the NSW selectors.

I saw every game in the Aus Champs (Div I) and he didn't shine.

Apart from the hookers that were chosen by Aus Schools I thought the ACT skipper TS Tai was very good before he was injured and that James Wilkinson of Combined States (who played flanker for CHS, and is a similar player to JWL) was more unlucky to miss out on an Aus Schools berth than JWL.
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S

sidelineview

Guest
Reply to Snort's comment

Since Scythe is so keen to chat, let's consider Cranbrook. How can they be beaten?

First: you won't beat them up front. Waverley was hugely competitive everywhere last Saturday except in the set pieces, where they didn't turn up at all. I think Waverley won three line-outs all day, and routinely lost their own throw. Cranbrook was also dominant at scrum time. Try not to let them dominate, but don't expect to win here.
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You're pretty spot on with your analysis of the Cranbrook vs Wav game, but it's not true to say Waverley didn't turn up in any aspect of the match. It infers they weren't trying. They were severely outclassed in the lineouts and only won 2 for the entire game, and obviously need to improve. Waverley did win their fair share of ball at the lineout against Knox so it was surprising, but maybe it highlight's Cranbrook's dominance in this area.

Waverley had a player missing as well: Justin Cooper. He is usually dominant at the lineout and also very busy at the breakdown. His absence played a part in Saturday's game.

Cranbrook are beatable, and I agree have weaknesses: they give too many penalties away and are too willing to kick possession away too often.
I think Waverley put them under pressure and it showed, as you mentioned. Waverley matched it with Cranbrook through the heart they showed, not through their over abundance of natural talent. Although they do have talent on their roster, Waverley's strength is their teamwork and determination.
A smart, disciplined team that continues to put the pressure on and is defensively strong can beat Cranbrook, although Knox can give a lot of penalties away as well.
 

Snort

Vay Wilson (31)
You're pretty spot on with your analysis of the Cranbrook vs Wav game, but it's not true to say Waverley didn't turn up in any aspect of the match. It infers they weren't trying. They were severely outclassed in the lineouts and only won 2 for the entire game, and obviously need to improve. Waverley did win their fair share of ball at the lineout against Knox so it was surprising, but maybe it highlight's Cranbrook's dominance in this area.

Waverley had a player missing as well: Justin Cooper. He is usually dominant at the lineout and also very busy at the breakdown. His absence played a part in Saturday's game.

I certainly didn't mean to suggest they weren't trying. But Waverley was overwhelmed in the forward set pieces to an embarrassing extent. No doubt Cooper's absence had an impact, but you can only assess the players who make it onto the field. Everywhere else they were highly competitive and played with a lot of heart. I like the arrangement of the backs with Bailey at 10 and Paterson at 12 - Bailey is a livewire, and in theory the arrangement should free up Paterson to run more. I wonder whether Paterson was fit on Saturday because he underplayed his own running game (although, oddly, he acted as a more effective ball-player than when he played at 10, showing a few skills I didn't know he had).
 
S

sidelineview

Guest
I certainly didn't mean to suggest they weren't trying. But Waverley was overwhelmed in the forward set pieces to an embarrassing extent. No doubt Cooper's absence had an impact, but you can only assess the players who make it onto the field. Everywhere else they were highly competitive and played with a lot of heart. I like the arrangement of the backs with Bailey at 10 and Paterson at 12 - Bailey is a livewire, and in theory the arrangement should free up Paterson to run more. I wonder whether Paterson was fit on Saturday because he underplayed his own running game (although, oddly, he acted as a more effective ball-player than when he played at 10, showing a few skills I didn't know he had).


Fair enough, but you're right, they were completely overwhelmed at the lineout. Hopefully they improve because they won their fair share of ball against Knox and got the better of them. I don't think the backs had many opportunities to run the ball on Saturday, but Patterson can be a dangerous runner and he's looking good in finding his support players to offload.
Bailey is only 15 and a good defender as well. In fact the the whole backline is strong defensively. Patterson, Bracewell, Nuttal and Mohi.
Anyway, we agree Cranbrook are strong but can be beaten by a team playing the right tactics.
 

Snort

Vay Wilson (31)
Cranbrook will be a little under-strength this week. Mahony is still out, as is McCombe, who was injured while scoring a try last week. Riley is in the second row and Szangolies is at 7. Will it matter? Unlikely.
 

Snort

Vay Wilson (31)
Fair enough, but you're right, they were completely overwhelmed at the lineout. Hopefully they improve because they won their fair share of ball against Knox and got the better of them. I don't think the backs had many opportunities to run the ball on Saturday, but Patterson can be a dangerous runner and he's looking good in finding his support players to offload.
Bailey is only 15 and a good defender as well. In fact the the whole backline is strong defensively. Patterson, Bracewell, Nuttal and Mohi.

There was a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth early in the season, as if something terminal had happened to Waverley Rugby. I suppose 82-0 can cause that. I said at the time that it was all premature, and the programme seems to me to be holding up pretty well, despite there being an open age group that is less strong than Waverley usually expects.
 
S

sidelineview

Guest
There was a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth early in the season, as if something terminal had happened to Waverley Rugby. I suppose 82-0 can cause that. I said at the time that it was all premature, and the programme seems to me to be holding up pretty well, despite there being an open age group that is less strong than Waverley usually expects.


Yes, the Waverley coaches and players have done well to improve from being described as a 'rabble' (probably accurately) to being respected.
 

SonnyDillWilliams

Nev Cottrell (35)
Yes, the Waverley coaches and players have done well to improve from being described as a 'rabble' (probably accurately) to being respected.
Yes and waverley's lower age groups seem to be going well ... Clean sweep across 13,14s, and 15s .. Unless I am mistaken. And 16as looked to have improved

Waves under 13s look particularly strong ... Is Warwick waughs kid in that age group?

Either way the 13as seemed to have handily accounted for cranbrook 13as, who have been performing pretty well over a few years
 

doublev

Frank Row (1)
Yes Waverley's younger age groups have been very dominant and I for one am looking forward to seeing what is to come of them in future years. I know that most of the 13s, 14s and 15s age groups are either undefeated or have only dropped 1 or 2 close games and that their 16s are about the same. The 16a's have a great side that have again only lost once or twice i think and that is with 3 of their backs already playing up in the 1st XV side. Look for that team to dominate the 1st XV next lineup next season.

It seems as though quite a few of the problems Waverley has been having have been adjusted as we have seen stronger performances by the side in the past 3 games compared to the horror run they were having at the start of the season. One problem however, that cant necessarily be adjusted is the fact that for the first time in quite a while the opens age group at Waverley is very weak. In the past few years there have been players in the 2nds very unlucky not to be in the 1sts and then players in the 3rds very unlucky not to be in the 2nds side however this year it seems as though, while there are a few players in the 2nds unlucky not to be in the 1sts, quite a few of the 2nds players probably wont ever be getting a run in the 'Double V' jersey. And with that said, most of the players in the 3rds team would struggle to step up to the level of intensity that the 2nd graders play with. This makes it hard for all of the teams to be able to hang with the likes of Barker and Knox who seem to always been strong through almost all age groups, which is why we constantly see those two schools dominate not only 2nds but most open grades and even the younger ones. Even in the 1sts there isnt a great number of Year 12 students and quite a few of the boys werent anywhere near the 1sts set up last year. This is highlighted by the 3 16a's players playing this year who seem to have a more secure spot than some others already.

What I wonder is how does a school, or the rugby program at a school address the lack of depth that it may have and how can it be improved?
 
S

sidelineview

Guest
What I wonder is how does a school, or the rugby program at a school address the lack of depth that it may have and how can it be improved?
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'double v' .. does it just come down to numbers at the respective schools?Some schools cover injuries well, while others really struggle if some key players are out.
At the schools with smaller numbers it may also just come down to whether it's been a strong crop of kids come through a particular age group or if it's been a weaker group.
The younger age groups at Waverley look strong; I think the 15As lost narrowly (and controversially) against Knox and therefore may be co-premiers or a close second. They are a very good team.
The 16s posted a close win against Cranbrook and have had a good season.
The 14s and 13s have dropped a couple of games and have some serious talent there.
The next 2 or 3 years look promising for Waverley.

There are 2 @16s playing in Waverley 1sts: Jackson Mohi and Tyzac Bailey, although Jaya Yoannidis has been a handy replacement player during the season.
 

Elfster

Jim Clark (26)
CAS Rd # 8 – 26th July

St. Aloysius v Knox

Barker v Waverley

Trinity v Cranbrook

My thoughts for the games this week. Though, on paper, there are definite favourites I think that this week should see some attractive Rugby.

Trinity is hosting Cranbrook. Cranbrook have a few injuries, but I believe Trinity has as well. This game probably brings the best scrummaging sides together. Both sides have big, powerful and aggressive packs and I imagine it will suit Trinity to keep the game tight. For Trinity to beat Cranbrook they will need to be disciplined, patient and apply pressure. One area in which they may dominate is the line out, so they should try that. Trinity struggles in attack, they do miss Barkley-Brown and their current attack seems to be too hesitant an one dimensional. One lesson they could have learnt from Knox was the ability of Knox to offload in the tackle - if they did that they would see opportunities be created. Their big issue is their depth - a few injuries and the game could be over. That said they will try all day and make the most of what is offered.

Cranbrook is a well balanced, confident and professional side. By that I mean they will pressure relentlessly, keep their structure and build. They look a fit side and will play the full game. They are excellent in defence and use that as an option in attack. Though not as potent in attack as Knox, their forays into their opponents 22 will inevitably lead to points. And, unlike previous years there is some depth in Cranbrook Rugby. Cranbrook will win, but Trinity will make them work for it.

Barker versus Waverley

At home Barker should win, but Waverley, to their credit, is the most improved side in the competition. It may depend on which team from either side turns up.
Both teams have different natures. Waverley is unpredictable and thrives on broken play. Barker will be well drilled and be methodical and use Burkett and their 9 and 10 to effect.
Waverley will want to play wide and expansive. Take risks and apply pressure to Barker by running the ball at them. There are some good runners in that back line and I don't think Barker's defence matches that of sides of previous years. Barker will keep the game tight and apply pressure and try to get advantage of any lapses in Waverley's discipline. Of the three games this weekend, this will probably be the hardest to pick and potentially the lowest scoring game, but at home and with an obvious advantage in depth I lean towards barker.

Aloys vs Knox

If games were played on paper, this game would be lay down misere. However Aloys play the game in a highly spirited manner and have off a good win against Barker. They will be confident and in recent years Knox seems to struggle at Willoughby Oval. There is no doubt that this is a very good Knox side, but they have issues in playing the full 80 minutes. Perhaps if they lost a bit of flamboyance and became more clinical their season would have been even better. But they can play very attractive attacking rugby and I would expect that tomorrow. The slighter smaller ground may not totally suit their side-to-side attacking prowess, but their forward advantage will probably allow them to play a more direct physical way. The Knox side has multiple attacking go to players in their side, but i think one of their real strengths in attack is their ability to support the ball player, offload in tackles, get quick ball away and change angles of attack. They are also strong in defence when they are fully concentrating. They will need to concentrate on this game rather than the one against Cranbrook the following week. But they do tend to lapse in that area and would give away too many penalties for the coaches liking.

Aloys won't be able to defeat Knox by defence and restricting knox to one or two tries. They will need to attack early and constantly. Play risky rugby and see what happens. Aloys are a spirited side and do play attacking Rugby, but they do have an issue with size and depth. I can't see them doing to Knox what Waverley did, but Aloys are more than capable of springing an upset on their day. In a high scoring affair with potential lead changes I see Knox pulling away comfortably by the end of the game. However the final score may not be a true reflection on the closeness of the game.

But I hope all the games are good ones, played in the right spirit and with no injuries. And all the players have a great time and enjoy themselves
 

doublev

Frank Row (1)
What I wonder is how does a school, or the rugby program at a school address the lack of depth that it may have and how can it be improved?
----------------

'double v' .. does it just come down to numbers at the respective schools?Some schools cover injuries well, while others really struggle if some key players are out.
At the schools with smaller numbers it may also just come down to whether it's been a strong crop of kids come through a particular age group or if it's been a weaker group.
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Well lets use Aloys for an example. They are a pretty small school when compared to the other 5 schools in the CAS and its not surprising that they struggle to match teams in the lower grades and often ive seen an aloys b or c team playing a c or d team from the opposing school. Up in the opens that can be a factor that may influence the 1st and 2nds sides once injuries hit. It can also make it hard from the get go if the crop of players to choose from isn't as high a standard as a coach would like.

For Waverley, the opens age group seems to be a bit lighter on numbers this year compared to the last 3 years or so and id say the crop of players to choose from isnt as high a standard as most coaches would like. Now dont get me wrong, the boys in the 1sts deserve to be there and are just now starting to prove it to with much stronger performances against heavyweights of the competition, when i say the crop is weaker im talking about players from lower grades (3rds and below) who would struggle to step up when needed and this can really hurt the rugby program at a school. It worries coaches that there are no suitable replacements if an injury occurs and if numbers are down at training for whatever reason its hard to get one of them to fill in. Come game day and the star player goes down injured in the first tackle of the game, what then? Its definitely an ongoing problem year after year (some years more obvious than others). Now im not sure of what program the other schools have in place as far as pre season goes and who is involved in what you could call more serious training but I know Waverley usually focuses on the 1st and 2nds sides training through the new year and the other opens tend to wait until a few weeks before the end of term 1. Maybe its time that they have their own preseason that extends beyond the 2 or 3 weeks the have before the season starts?
 

BigKev

Stan Wickham (3)
3/3 Spot on big kev mate, what's your call for next weeks fixtures?


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
Hux we've got another great week, hopefully come out with at least 5/6 in tipping over this week and last because there's one game that's going to be very tough to call. I'm talking about Barker v Waverley, it should just be one of those games.
Barker plays a structured game heavily dictated by their 10, a game plan which managed 7 points against Aloys. I'm not sure if their injured CAS halfback is returning but he may be what it takes to unlock a more clinical attack required to get a sound win. Comparatively, Waverley admirably attacks with conviction and flair but have been criticised at the set piece. This stark contrast in rugby brands is why I'm so excited for this game. Home ground advantage says Barker and I believe that set piece control wins games. Barker to do what Aloys did to them last week and win by 10.
Cranbrook v Trinity, I keep expecting a wholesome spirited performance from a Trinity side that has been more than unlucky this year although it seems that Cranbrook and Knox are just a class above. I really hope this is the week they give a top side a run for their money. Cranbrook have injuries but it's a testament to their strength that they fill the gaps and roll on undefeated, a characteristic of a premiership side. Cranbrook will lock away the title (at least joint) with a win and I can't see them having trouble. Cranbrook by a number of tries.
Aloys v Knox, these two schools have had an intriguing David and Goliath history in recent years. Aloys turned around to beat both Trinity and Barker after first round losses, where will their improvement end? Knox needs this for any shot at the title and Aloys, with their passionate crowd (and old boys), certainly relish spoiling all things Knox. It may seem I'm trying to fuel the fire of an Aloys boilover but I'm still picking Knox, just saying that I think it will be high scoring with some lead changes, keep an eye on 10. James Dainton. The amount of Knox players in CAS and state levels attests to their strength across the park which I believe will get them over a line they'll be pushed to.
 

doublev

Frank Row (1)
Ill throw my predictions out there as well.

Trinity v Cranbrook

A few injuries for Brook and perhaps a bit of a shock last week, probably thinking theyd run over Waverley once again, sees them in need of a confidence boost and a big win to keep their stellar season going forward strongly, officially secure the premiership and attempt to finish the season on a high. For Trinity, im sure now most of them want to play for a bit of pride and maybe try and set them selves up for a better season next year. Expect them to throw everything at Cranbrook and for Cranbrook to do the same back but if Trinity cant change something expect another cricket score here. With that said, Cranbrook to win by 30+.

Barker v Waverley

A toughie. Barker at home is a notoriously hard game for any travelling side. Barker sit in the middle of the two packs on the table (leaders by far Knox and Brook and the race to escape the spoon- Wav, Trinity and Aloys), however a loss this week will see Waverley leapfrog them. Expect 2 different styles of play and whoever can execute better will go home happy with the 2 points. With that said a big factor in the game will be whichever team turns up to play from the opening whistle and whichever team can play with the most confidence should take it home. In a very, very close game, Barker to steal the win from Waverley in the final minutes of the game.

Aloys v Knox

A chance for Aloys to make a name for themselves in this years competition by shocking the 2nd place Knox team. Against Waverley, Knox came out far too over confident and that was ultimately what cost them the game. They can't afford to do that again on Saturday and Aloys would be hoping that if they do, they can capitalize and knock-off Knox. Knox need the win to stay alive in the comp. With Cranbrook 2 wins ahead of them, they will be praying for miracles and hoping Trinity can put them on their way to a 3 game losing streak which would hand Knox the trophy provided they win all of their games. Im picking Knox to go back-to-back with big wins here after humbling Trinity last week and putting 20+ on Aloys.
 

Kilgore Trout

Herbert Moran (7)
Ill throw my predictions out there as well.

Trinity v Cranbrook

A few injuries for Brook and perhaps a bit of a shock last week, probably thinking theyd run over Waverley once again, sees them in need of a confidence boost and a big win to keep their stellar season going forward strongly, officially secure the premiership and attempt to finish the season on a high. For Trinity, im sure now most of them want to play for a bit of pride and maybe try and set them selves up for a better season next year. Expect them to throw everything at Cranbrook and for Cranbrook to do the same back but if Trinity cant change something expect another cricket score here. With that said, Cranbrook to win by 30+.

Barker v Waverley

A toughie. Barker at home is a notoriously hard game for any travelling side. Barker sit in the middle of the two packs on the table (leaders by far Knox and Brook and the race to escape the spoon- Wav, Trinity and Aloys), however a loss this week will see Waverley leapfrog them. Expect 2 different styles of play and whoever can execute better will go home happy with the 2 points. With that said a big factor in the game will be whichever team turns up to play from the opening whistle and whichever team can play with the most confidence should take it home. In a very, very close game, Barker to steal the win from Waverley in the final minutes of the game.

Aloys v Knox

A chance for Aloys to make a name for themselves in this years competition by shocking the 2nd place Knox team. Against Waverley, Knox came out far too over confident and that was ultimately what cost them the game. They can't afford to do that again on Saturday and Aloys would be hoping that if they do, they can capitalize and knock-off Knox. Knox need the win to stay alive in the comp. With Cranbrook 2 wins ahead of them, they will be praying for miracles and hoping Trinity can put them on their way to a 3 game losing streak which would hand Knox the trophy provided they win all of their games. Im picking Knox to go back-to-back with big wins here after humbling Trinity last week and putting 20+ on Aloys.
Knox 26 Aloys 5 half time
 
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