CAS Rugby 2017

[Rich_E]

2017 Nationals and Aus Schools match dates released

http://www.schoolsrugby.com.au/2016/events/2017-asru-dates/

 

[Show and go]

AS and others,

5 kick gets lots of mentions but clearly they are doing something better than us. Anyone willing to articulate why so it can be countered?

Any talented boy finishing school can either go into league get their Uni education paid for by the chosen club, get a good salary most likely a 3 yr contract ,after that depends if they make the grade or other option go into u20s waratah's squad and survive off family handouts hoping to be offered a decent contract, obviously financially some boys/family's cannot afford this sacrifice and their decision is already made. This is what the ARU are up against, it looks like an uphill battle to retain a lot of these schoolboys unless something changes.

 

[rugboy]

ASRU selectors will disagree. They select who they believe are the best at the time, noting that historically less than 50% of Schoolboys players go on to a professional career in sport.

@Lee Grant has spoken to the selectors on several occasions and confirmed that they do not see that their role is to "penalise" those who will be playing Fivekick they year after graduation.

Herein potentially is the difference between the continued strength in NZ rugby and here. The NZ schools team all had to sign loyalty agreements this year. 2 boys wouldn't sign as they had committed to NRL teams and were subsequently told their services were no longer required after originally being named in the squad. I seem to recall a number of years back the same approach was followed here although the shift in thinking as you mention means it was abandoned.

 

[Azzuri]

Herein potentially is the difference between the continued strength in NZ rugby and here. The NZ schools team all had to sign loyalty agreements this year. 2 boys wouldn't sign as they had committed to NRL teams and were subsequently told their services were no longer required after originally being named in the squad. I seem to recall a number of years back the same approach was followed here although the shift in thinking as you mention means it was abandoned.

perfect example of strategic thinking versus "I don't want to upset little Mungo"

 

[The Honey Badger]

The schools cant put restrictions like that onto individuals.
All they can do is insist they prioritise school rugby over any league commitments.
In fact I think its part of the agreement to attend some (all?) private schools that the students commit to playing school sport.
Exemptions can be granted under certain circumstances but thats the general rule.

@SLV, schools can and do put restrictions on individuals. Seem to remember a talented boy at Scots last year, played 3rds because he would not commit to the training schedule for the 1 & 2's.

Private Schools are private and can make their own rules.

 

[sidelineview]

@SLV, schools can and do put restrictions on individuals. Seem to remember a talented boy at Scots last year, played 3rds because he would not commit to the training schedule for the 1 & 2's.

Private Schools are private and can make their own rules.

I said a school can insist a student prioritise school rugby over any league commitments but cant stop them playing league.

You must have misread it.

 

[sidelineview]

perfect example of strategic thinking versus "I don't want to upset little Mungo"

Herein potentially is the difference between the continued strength in NZ rugby and here. The NZ schools team all had to sign loyalty agreements this year. 2 boys wouldn't sign as they had committed to NRL teams and were subsequently told their services were no longer required after originally being named in the squad. I seem to recall a number of years back the same approach was followed here although the shift in thinking as you mention means it was abandoned.

I think this is a good idea but at what stage do you implement it? Before the State or National championships?
And I wonder what the details of the agreement are.
I assume it would only involve players who had already signed with NRL teams, but it wouldn't prevent players signing after the Australian Schoolboy Championships.

 

[The Honey Badger]

I said a school can insist a student prioritise school rugby over any league commitments but cant stop them playing league.

You must have misread it.

@SLV very true, a school can't stop a boy from playing another sport in his own time.

But a school does determine who plays in the 1st XV and therefore who is available for representative selection.

You seem a bit defensive, is there any League connection at Waverley?

 

[Rugby Central]

Rightly or wrongly, the "stick" approach can't work. Looking past all the legal ramifications for restricting what kids can do if all their school commitments are met, you're generally looking at two kinds of kids. Scholarship players, who are advancing their lives through their sporting talent, so they will continue down that path, i.e get paid for their ability. Or kids of parents wealthy enough to pay the fees, who can pick and choose schools. Threatening to punish little Johnny will hardly endear the school to them or potential fee paying parents.

Yes, there are kids from less well off families doing the struggle with fees, but they would be even angrier if their kids education experience was disrupted because he was good enough to excel at both codes.

And finally, why on earth should a School compromise itself for, at most, 10 kids good enough to play both codes at that level, when there are a thousand others to look after. Would you expect a school to stop a kid pursing a baseball contract even though he was a rep cricketer.

The problem is with the ARU not managing the game or its finances properly. It's just not appealing enough for a 15-17 kid compared to league. That's what they have to work on.

 

[sidelineview]

@SLV very true, a school can't stop a boy from playing another sport in his own time.

But a school does determine who plays in the 1st XV and therefore who is available for representative selection.

You seem a bit defensive, is there any League connection at Waverley?

There's plenty of league connection at Waverley; a lot of the Eastern Suburbs boys play Club league until they hit Year 7 and then start playing rugby for the school. Those kids can often turn into really good rugby players after they serve some time learning the game.

The Waverley College coaches dont mind getting kids who can already tackle and have a good skillset; all they have to do is teach them the new game and be a bit patient.

Some others kids play Club rugby instead; some play both Club rugby and league but the league connection is strong.

I wasn't being defensive, it's just that Waverley College as with all other schools I'd assume want the best players available for their teams. And besides the discriminatory factor coming into play, they wouldn't want to sit 4 or 5 kids out because they play league. Everyone wants to win and besides that the parents would kick up a fuss and rightfully so.

I mean where do schools draw the line about what their students do in their spare time? It's none of their business when it comes down to it. Even if a player has signed with the Roosters why would they exclude him from the top team? That's a policy that should be set by a higher authority in regards to Rep rugby.

But they do set strict boundary lines regarding a student's commitment to school sport and they enforce it. It's an agreement the parents commit to when enrolling their sons: school sport comes first.

 

[White line fever]

Rugby C,

I agree, have a look at my post on the previous page, about it being a business!

Sideline, you are right, I also believe that playing junior League has some major benefits for union players as they grow up.
Look at some of our boys this year in the firsts, some very obvious and potent league skills!

 

[Azzuri]

Even if a player has signed with the Roosters why would they exclude him from the top team? .

Agree with you SLV, certainly let them play school rugby but if they signed a contract with a league club they should be excluded from consideration in school boy rep teams.

They may as well learn the life lesson early that a commitment is a commitment and signing a legal contract is not something that should be taken lightly.

I blame the parents and pushy player agents for this crap anyhow as anyone under 18 can't sign a binding contract.

Trouble is if we are waiting for the NRL and ARU to get their heads together and agree a bipartisan approach to stamping out U18 schoolboy signings, we'll be waiting a bloody long time.

 

[sidelineview]

Yeah I agree, they should be left alone until they leave school. They shouldn't be involved with BS like that at a young age; just play footy and enjoy yourself.

But being offered a few thousand bucks and gaining the ''kudos'' that goes along with it can be a carrot that's too hard to resist for some. No one has to like it but it is understandable, unless the family's rolling in it.

 

[The Honey Badger]

I found out that my son was playing a game of League and I read the riot act to him.

If he wants to go to a top school and I am forking out big money. He can at least respect the schools policy on these matters. They don't want him getting injured. And I want his full attention given to school and represtative opportunities.

 

[sidelineview]

Rugby C,

I agree, have a look at my post on the previous page, about it being a business!

Sideline, you are right, I also believe that playing junior League has some major benefits for union players as they grow up.
Look at some of our boys this year in the firsts, some very obvious and potent league skills!

They were a special bunch of players weren't they? it was a pleasure to watch them play and to watch them grow in confidence as a team as the season progressed. It just happened to be a very good year with a bunch of league-based boys in the team adapting well to the game they play in heaven.

The rugby purists wouldn't like this much but I've often thought that the best ''apprenticeship'' an aspiring rugby player could serve is to play a few seasons of league under a good coach and to have some private tuition from an AFL coach to learn how to kick properly. Front row forwards could be excused from the kicking lessons.
Then they could be let loose on the rugby field and off they go.

 

[sidelineview]

I found out that my son was playing a game of League and I read the riot act to him.

If he wants to go to a top school and I am forking out big money. He can at least respect the schools policy on these matters. They don't want him getting injured. And I want his full attention given to school and represtative opportunities.

tut tut to him. Was it a mortal sin?

He learnt the 11th Commandment in the Badger family:
"Thou must not go over to the dark side and play mungo ball".

 

[White line fever]

Sideline,

Couldn't agree more, did the same with my 2 boys.
They played Clovelly Crocs league as juniors for 4 years, until year 5, now playing for the school.
There are transferrable skills between the codes, the 2 I like most from league are obviously tackling and finding the line, because you can run without inhibition of being caught and isolated, and then turning over/losing the ball. In junior league you can explore your own running ability, and gain confidence to back yourself, as a result.

But school boy union imo IS the best footy you will see!

 

[Armchair Selector]

But school boy union imo IS the best footy you will see!

Couldn't agree more

Check out the highlight packages on the internet for any of the boys looking for contracts.

The freedom to throw the ball around and give it a go is what makes Schoolboy Rugby special and a joy for participants and spectators alike.

But its not just about the individual, that last round game between Newington and Joeys at Stanmore was special. I know its a CAS thread but if you weren't there check it out. Schoolboy Rugby at its best (without the tackling )

 

[White line fever]

AS,

I have seen it, and yes, it was magnificent!

As good as it gets!

 

[Rugby Central]

Front row forwards could be excused from the kicking lessons.

I wouldn't excuse them. If you want all round rugby players, give them all the skills. I'd back the All Black front rowers have a reasonable kicking game.

Anyway, there's nothing more beautiful than a chip, chase and regather from a number 3