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Concussions and Protecting Our Players

Dctarget

Tim Horan (67)
Also North got his fifth! concussion against France on the weekend, awful to see happen and he seems quite prone to it now.
 

Tex

Greg Davis (50)
Biggar is such a worry.

Is there any research showing that previous concussion injuries results in future impacts resulting in concussions more easily? Because he seems to be going down so frequently.

I'm not a father but I'd be reviewing which sports my kids play. This week research was published showing former soccer players experience neuro-degenerative conditions (alzheimers, dementia etc) at three times the rate of non-playing people. Heading balls is the obvious risk factor, which (on the surface) appears to be much less traumatic than the types of head injuries seen in the contact codes.
 

Dctarget

Tim Horan (67)
Biggar is such a worry.

Is there any research showing that previous concussion injuries results in future impacts resulting in concussions more easily? Because he seems to be going down so frequently.

I'm not a father but I'd be reviewing which sports my kids play. This week research was published showing former soccer players experience neuro-degenerative conditions (alzheimers, dementia etc) at three times the rate of non-playing people. Heading balls is the obvious risk factor, which (on the surface) appears to be much less traumatic than the types of head injuries seen in the contact codes.

I'm completely guessing here but do you think it's from the pure repetition of it with heading balls? Professional football players would've headed(?) a ball 10,000+ times in their career. Whereas rugby players hopefully have <10 much more severe head collisions.

But surely the research would show rugby players display similar conditions at the same rate if not even more severe.
 

Tex

Greg Davis (50)
In England they've banned kids from heading balls at training, and the Australian soccer federation has followed suit. I think it's in recognition of the cumulative effects, rather than the risk of single traumatic incidents. I don't know what the answer is.

I watch UFC and I can't shake the discomfort at watching these guys knocking brain cells away for pretty paltry fight purses.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Listening to the House of Rugby Podcast and Haskell had on Sean O'Brien (worth a listen)

SOB said he hasn't played a game without some pain for 8-10 years, the last two years, constant pain and regular private tears
 

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
I don't think that's out of ordinary for most elite players to be honest. Injuries are usually, are they restrictive? Don't play. Just painful? Play.
 

Tex

Greg Davis (50)
Good news.

I read somewhere recently that CTE is the result of many "sub-concussive" impacts to the brain over an extended period. It's great that the acute injuries appear to be on the downward trend and if it holds over an extended period, I think most fans and commentators will gladly walk back earlier criticisms of the rule changes.
 

liquor box

Peter Sullivan (51)
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/sp...ic-lawsuit-on-concussion-20201208-p56lnc.html
More than 70 former rugby players are preparing a potentially seismic group-litigation action due to the effects of concussions suffered during their careers.
The London Telegraph has learnt the group includes several former England, Wales and New Zealand internationals. Nearly all sustained multiple head knocks during their careers and have suffered from memory loss, insomnia, migraines and depression since retirement.

In the 1970s, the International Rugby Council, as World Rugby was known, instituted a three-week stand-down period for players who suffered a concussion. This was revised down to a week in the 2000s.
Barry O'Driscoll, who resigned as former chief medical officer to the IRB in protest at its concussion protocols, has confirmed this will form a central plank of the law firm's argument.
"My understanding of it is that this will be one of the crucial parts of the case and there is very little scientific basis for the seven-day rule other than it allowed players to return to play for next week's game," O'Driscoll told The Telegraph.

This could be interesting and very expensive for the IRB and individual countries if the class action succeeds.

I like to think the game has progressed with on field treatment of head injuries but it does seem odd how quickly some players are able to return to the game after a bad concussion the week before.
 

sendit

Bob Loudon (25)
Im very interested to see where the line is drawn for personal responsibility as opposed to the union being at fault
 

Dismal Pillock

David Codey (61)
Sounds like this thing is about to go mental (poor choice of words, MORAN)

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...by-union-players-dementia-landmark-legal-case
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...ia-presents-sport-with-reality-dared-not-face


Look at this graph ffs

60 lineouts a game back in the day! 60!

And only 38 rucks!

concuss.png


Re; dementia, sounds like its just really an elite pro level thing? Too much practice time and high impact shit in matches? Plus all the little knocks adding up over all those hours and hours for fulltime pros. And every high speed impact even to just the body is another reverberating jiggle to the brain.

WFT is the solution?

Can't "limit practice". It'll just go underground.

"Weight restrictions" are dumb too. A brave little prick can still run into you fast as fuck and hello, theres another brain jiggle.

The rucks are just some horrid shit now. Defenders bending over rucks in a totally prone position to compete for the ball and pricks freely allowed to wipe them out by the brains 213 times per match. That shit has to go.
 

Dismal Pillock

David Codey (61)
Sounds like rugby has done its dash. The only remaining options appear to be the following;
  • turn it into touch rugby
  • completely revolutionise rugby into a new hybrid sport.
For the latter, some sort of "rugby basketball". Played on a hugish grass bball court, with a rugby ball, still have to pass ball backwards, like bball so no tackling with arms or barging. Although holding is fine. Obviously no rucks or scrums. Still have lineouts. Court is maybe 40 metres long and incredibly wide so plenty of space. Maybe 60 metres wide.

Haven't thought through the rest of the details eg scoring. B.Ravesheart will know what to do with those. He is very sensible.
 

Derpus

Nathan Sharpe (72)
^^^
informed consent and no tackling before adulthood imo are the only ways Rugby survives CTE long term.

I really doubt it's only a pro thing. Apparently even soccer players get it from heading a ball repeatedly - meaning lots of lower impact collisions are likely to result in some harm.
 

Derpus

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Im very interested to see where the line is drawn for personal responsibility as opposed to the union being at fault
They are extremely fucked for any harm occuring back in the day when they did jack shit to protect the players and no one knew what was happening to players brains.

For stuff happening now you might attribute a bit more to personal responsibility.
 

Dismal Pillock

David Codey (61)
Scoring-wise, the game also needs to get away from the goalline stands where players exocet themselves in head-first to score/stop each other. Maybe the "tryline" has to be a waist-high line the width of the field. Ball just needs to cross the plane like NFL. To factor in excitement factor for fans, when plane is crossed, electronic lights beam up the width of the field. The crowd erupts. A smile plays at the corners of Commissioner Pillock's mouth. He folds his arms and nods wisely from his Exec Box. All the cheerleaders stadium-wide start spontaneously twerking in his general direction.
 

waiopehu oldboy

George Smith (75)
.....Apparently even soccer players get it from heading a ball repeatedly - meaning lots of lower impact collisions are likely to result in some harm.

I'm sure the Brits were at least trialling not allowing youth players (under 16, from memory) to head the ball.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
but would I let my kid play knowing what we do now? Very doubtful.


It seems like the better they are likely to be, the more you need to worry.

The average kid who plays for a few years and then gives it up? No worries.

The kid who is outstanding and becomes a professional? Massive worries.
 

Adam84

Phil Kearns (64)
Sounds like this thing is about to go mental (poor choice of words, MORAN)

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...by-union-players-dementia-landmark-legal-case
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...ia-presents-sport-with-reality-dared-not-face


Look at this graph ffs

60 lineouts a game back in the day! 60!

And only 38 rucks!

concuss.png


Re; dementia, sounds like its just really an elite pro level thing? Too much practice time and high impact shit in matches? Plus all the little knocks adding up over all those hours and hours for fulltime pros. And every high speed impact even to just the body is another reverberating jiggle to the brain.

WFT is the solution?

Can't "limit practice". It'll just go underground.

"Weight restrictions" are dumb too. A brave little prick can still run into you fast as fuck and hello, theres another brain jiggle.

The rucks are just some horrid shit now. Defenders bending over rucks in a totally prone position to compete for the ball and pricks freely allowed to wipe them out by the brains 213 times per match. That shit has to go.

Yeah some concerning statistics there. It’s hard to know what the solution is. Players are so much fitter, faster and agile these days that they’re covering so much more of the field every game. I think they need to speed the game up, push players to fatigue again.

I think they need to restrict the use of the bench to only a few interchanges and not all 7, players getting fatigued and not making it to every ruck would be a positive for the game, not a negative.

They need to remove the stoppages so players again aren’t getting opportunities to catch their breath. That’s what halftime is for. I think scrums are bad for this, if a scrum collapses and no obviously infringement then it’s a short arm, and I think short arm penalty should remove the option for another scrum and should instead be a quick tap or kick.

TMO decisions, penalty goals and kicks at goal all need to be sped up. NRL are adopting a change where kickers can setup for a kick whilst TMO rules on whether a try is allowed or not, something similar should be adopted by rugby.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Yeah some concerning statistics there. It’s hard to know what the solution is. Players are so much fitter, faster and agile these days that they’re covering so much more of the field every game. I think they need to speed the game up, push players to fatigue again.


Doesn't speeding up the game just add more tackles and rucks?

I would be pretty certain that the concussions stemming from rucks are the first players there, not the guys arriving later. Would fatigue change that?
 
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