Continued decline in Sydney Junior Rugby

[Dave Beat]

So a $200 levy is about $8-10 on average per head on a team of 20-23?. Seriously, why everyone is so wound up about this is beyond me.

We're getting so wound up about it because it is wrong in principle and unfair in practice.

If people can't see that it's wrong that a team of 6 year olds has to pay a $200 levy to help support players earning north of $100,000, and if people can't see that it's unfair that clubs struggling to pay basic expenses must pay the levy but teams at private schools who can afford Directors of Rugby and Sports Scientists won't, then it's no wonder rugby is shrinking.

When something is wrong and unfair, it's wrong and unfair - trying to minimise it by equating it to sausages is disingenuous in the extreme.

Seriously, is this the best that our highly paid administrators can come up with.

I say again a levy of this sort is a lazy and unfair way to raise money.

QH - agree.

All I'm saying is that given it appears it has been done, and yes in principle as you've said unfair practice, plus the delivery could have been improved.

I'm sucking it up, and will contribute at every game i go to.

 

[Quick Hands]

True, we have to suck it up. We know that some who run the game have their minions looking at threads like this. Maybe the message might get through.

 

[Dave Beat]

True, we have to suck it up. We know that some who run the game have their minions looking at threads like this. Maybe the message might get through.

Yes, and some of the great ideas may also start getting a ray of sunshine with a bit of luck.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Has the Junior Gold Cup had any impact on the registration numbers for SJRU in the Under 17's and U15's?

Could this be seen as the ARU investment in Junior Development and player retention?

 

[Brainstrust]

Sadly I get the sentiment that much of the opinion here is more about a non rugby view of the merits of private schooling v public schooling. Much of the club scene is populated by both, and the club scene needs both to be healthy. The perspective that schools will fall in line with the ARU, or clubs, is just not in touch with reality. They could all switch to loig tomorrow and tough shit... The absolute drop in numbers in club, versus the continued strength in school programs has to be recognised. Stop whinging and bleating about the disparity of private v public and just get behind the game... This is the view of a not so private school dedicated dad who has had boys through the club system. And yes I still believe that 8, , 10, or whatever it takes is fine. I want to see a strong wallaby side, and as a shareholder I am not against a capital raising through tough times.

 

[Quick Hands]

You miss the point completely. It's got nothing to do with private schools v clubs. Plenty of us have kids involved in school and club.

What it's got to do with is fairness. If you can't see that it's unfair that one group of participants are being required to pay a levy and another group of participants aren't, it's probably pointless having a discussion.

 

[Fat Cat]

That is exactly what the ARU is doing but it will not stem the tide of players leaving rugby. The existing pathway is wrong. If these kids don't cut it in the JGC and don't make the gold squads they are going to say that's it. So again
you need to create a pathway via district rugby as discussed earlier in this
thread for everybody. Those kids and their parents in Sydney need to be confident there is a meaningful pathway via their local district club to greater honours. That way you broaden the player base across Sydney

If you build it they will come !

the club rugby based kids will have little or no rugby after this unless they go to a flash school and they get lost in the black hole or go to league.

I have spoken to players this year whom prefer rugby but go to league because there is no where for them to go within these age groups

 

[Dave Beat]

If you build it they will come !

the club rugby based kids will have little or no rugby after this unless they go to a flash school and they get lost in the black hole or go to league.

I have spoken to players this year whom prefer rugby but go to league because there is no where for them to go within these age groups

Agree - but there are so many areas that need to be addressed from the U6's through to U21's, and each area requires a different approach.
In short I'd like to see;

• U6 School kindy - U9 have an Auskick type program. Serious hard work and concentration has to be applied to area. I referenced that Macquarie Bank day above that was very well put together on a Saturday. All the kids there already had rugby boots. If that day was put on through the schools we'd be touching allot more kids. The local district clubs need to be included in this day.
• U10's - U15's - The clubs, and schools further develop what has been invested in the juniors. What I see as most important here is the structure that needs to be built. We have kids going from Prep school to senior school (& public / private). Kids are lost to the code right here - and pathway 6 years down the track mean nothing. Whilst the ARU can't change GPS, CAS, ect - IMO I think they classify themselves as their own separate entity and don't care about what is outside their 4 walls. Can the ARU build something that will compliment and the 4 boxes so they can be playing against each other.
• U16 - Colts, further growth on the above point but we already have the Shute Shield for the school leavers, I've already suggested the NRC at colts level, and after that we have Super rugby.

have to wrap it up and work, but each geographic area may need to be approached differently but each player would flow in the same direction. Square bucket may scoop up the kids in the west, whilst a round bucket may scoop up the kids in the east but when you pour them out the all flow out the one funnel.

 

[I like to watch]

Dave, I'm not sure why you mention the Macquarie day.
It's a corporate event,where they spoil clients kids,rather than just another corporate schmooze where they spoil the clients.
It is an amazing day,for those lucky enough to get a gig though!

 

[Dave Beat]

Dave, I'm not sure why you mention the Macquarie day.
It's a corporate event,where they spoil clients kids,rather than just another corporate schmooze where they spoil the clients.
It is an amazing day,for those lucky enough to get a gig though!

We maybe talking about a different day. This day it was about rugby and kids and that is all. I'd say upward of 750 kids aged from 5 - 12 at a guess, Super players were taking groups and running through drills dependent of age group - they left with a ball and a kicking tea.

There was no corporate schmooze at all, and I can assure you it wasnt clients kids - invite came out through the Junior Clubs.

It was at Joeys but as far as I'm aware Joeys had nothing to do with it - I think the location may have been more of a cost influence than anything else.

Only reasons I mentioned Macquarie is that it was a reference point, plus sponspers like it and they may do more?

 

[I like to watch]

It's the same day,it has always been held at Joeys.
It has obviously been made more available to the masses in recent years.
Which is good news.
They goodies bag at the end was amazing,as was the BBQ at the end.

 

[Dave Beat]

It's the same day,it has always been held at Joeys.
It has obviously been made more available to the masses in recent years.
Which is good news.
They goodies bag at the end was amazing,as was the BBQ at the end.

.


My boy, our club loved it.
My only variation to it if possible would be to target a different market.

• The kids who went had rugby boots.
• Do it through the schools from School Kindy to U9's - it might be 3 schools at once, it might be 10 to capture the numbers.

NAB sponsor Auskick, okay so Mac Bank sponsors Wallaby.

My kids are bringing home all this stuff about kids banking at the moment, it relates to a bank that has been the kids banking space for a very very long time. Possibly a good approach for a sponsor ship similar to Auskick.

 

[Gary Owen III]

Has the Junior Gold Cup had any impact on the registration numbers for SJRU in the Under 17's and U15's?

Could this be seen as the ARU investment in Junior Development and player retention?

HJ - I don't know if there has been an impact directly related to the JGC, but i am told that all clubs are finding rego's are down on last year (particularly in the 14's and above)

With regard to the Saturday vs Sunday debate that keeps boiling along, it came out at a District meeting the other day that apparently the SJRU did a spot check of a couple of the larger North Shore clubs to see the impact of Private Schools on player numbers. Lindfield and Mosman came in with over 80% of their players at Private schools (not sure what age groups they looked at). Which explains the dynamic when they get to the older age groups and numbers fall off badly in these clubs.

 

[Dave Beat]

With regard to the Saturday vs Sunday debate that keeps boiling along, it came out at a District meeting the other day that apparently the SJRU did a spot check of a couple of the larger North Shore clubs to see the impact of Private Schools on player numbers. Lindfield and Mosman came in with over 80% of their players at Private schools (not sure what age groups they looked at). Which explains the dynamic when they get to the older age groups and numbers fall off badly in these clubs.

Using that Linfield Mosman area as an example;

ARU works solely with the public schools, and district clubs, and creates a zone team / academy - there could quite possibly be an a's b's & c's team. The ARU then knocks on one of the walls of either GPS, CAS etc and says can our rep team be integrated into your Saturday comp.

I cant go into enough detail with authority but I know Manly has the Manly Academy that plays quite a few touring teams each year. They put considerable effort into this and have developed a real pathway for all the juniors, there is now a Foundation set up to continue this development.

In the West it might be completely different, more focus and development through the schools as they may not be as affluent in that area with regards to Private Schooling (not said to upset anyone!!).

 

[Fat Cat]

I hope Manly's U16 age group gets a rep team this year, because I think league has got there mits into a lot of them and there is no grandfather clause for this age group any more according to the SJRU.

 

[Gary Owen III]

I hope Manly's U16 age group gets a rep team this year, because I think league has got there mits into a lot of them and there is no grandfather clause for this age group any more according to the SJRU.

I think league may have already hit - Manly's U15 Rep team last was not as strong as in previous years. Am fairly sure only one lad went on from the State Champs to represent at regionals.

 

[Dave Beat]

I think league may have already hit - Manly's U15 Rep team last was not as strong as in previous years. Am fairly sure only one lad went on from the State Champs to represent at regionals.

I hope Manly's U16 age group gets a rep team this year, because I think league has got there mits into a lot of them and there is no grandfather clause for this age group any more according to the SJRU.

That is a great example for the ARU though - great post.

That same age bracket on the Peninsular may though have a good representation within the Private School system, and when schooling finishes there needs to be a clear progression.

In short, again for example only - only because you used Manly, I'll do the same. ARU should support the Manly (or geographic club) to develop a zone A's B's C's from the local public schools to play in a comp. The right comp needs to be built though.

Out west though I think it should be the public schools that the ARU should be supporting and developing, and that development should flow throw.

 

[Runner]

That is a great example for the ARU though - great post.

That same age bracket on the Peninsular may though have a good representation within the Private School system, and when schooling finishes there needs to be a clear progression.

In short, again for example only - only because you used Manly, I'll do the same. ARU should support the Manly (or geographic club) to develop a zone A's B's C's from the local public schools to play in a comp. The right comp needs to be built though.

Out west though I think it should be the public schools that the ARU should be supporting and developing, and that development should flow throw.

I read on the ISA site that there is a small competition called the penninsula cup in the Manly area could that be developed.

 

[Runner]

There is at least one such competition running. The private schools on the Peninsula have organised the Peninsula Cup, which has been running for about 15 years now with schools such as St Luke's Grammar, Pittwater House, NB Christian School, Oxford Falls Grammar and many others.

Opens, 15s and 13s divisions, played at 4pm on either Mondays or Wednesdays.

This from Quick Hands

 

[Dave Beat]

There is at least one such competition running. The private schools on the Peninsula have organised the Peninsula Cup, which has been running for about 15 years now with schools such as St Luke's Grammar, Pittwater House, NB Christian School, Oxford Falls Grammar and many others.

Opens, 15s and 13s divisions, played at 4pm on either Mondays or Wednesdays.

This from Quick Hands

Perfect, but a while off considering my little one is U7's.

So the ARU along with Manly (team 1) and Warringah (team 2) look at the public schools from year 7 - year 12 and they play in the Peninsular Cup.
With a bit of hard work & there would be growth growth and development an A's, B's & C's may. I've read above come the teens the distric clubs struggle, so why not have the public schools also working together.

Just from the Peninsular over recent years look at the young crop that has come through;
9. Fabian, 10. Hodge, 12. Maile, 13. Meakes 13. Foketi, 13. Benson, 11. Northam, Philips