Continued decline in Sydney Junior Rugby
- Thread starter Quick Hands
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Dave Beat
Paul McLean (56)
SHEEETT Fat Cat - that ain't good is it - what can we do?
What do you suggest, should we start another thread about great jokes, and riddles. Man I don't have a solution but the 1%ers count in even the biggest companies - so if we share our ideas some of them may stick.
Sometimes these times the 1% ers are easy to apply but have a far greater impact that a solitary %.
More info coming but after a recent SJRU meeting I hear that from 15,s up if you want to play rugby it will be on a Friday night or a Saturday after 3pm, it will be out concord way, and it will be 7 a side. My info may not be accurate we will find out soon.
There you go if all that is true, if you are 15 and above, and want a game of rugby you can't unless you go to a flash school.
Looks like the SJRU may be the marketing arm of the GPS, CAS, and ISA school systems.
There you go if all that is true, if you are 15 and above, and want a game of rugby you can't unless you go to a flash school.
Looks like the SJRU may be the marketing arm of the GPS, CAS, and ISA school systems.
Dave Beat
Paul McLean (56)
I understand that what Fat Cat has said is true. Apparently the SJRU called a meeting with club/district representatives on Monday evening (24th Feb) to discuss the horrendous drop in club registrations for 2014, particularly in the Under 15's and above, where many clubs were struggling for numbers to make up one team in those age groups. One area/district put forward the view that for the these age groups the comp be played in the same districts as those that represent at the State Championships. Play each other once throughout the season and then Top 4 play off in the semis and final for the State Championship. The feedback I have received is that this idea was demonstrably squashed across the board and the resolution is as outlined by Fat Cat - a 7's comp located at St Luke's at Concord to be played on a Friday evening and/or Saturday afternoon from 3pm.
I can't believe the body chartered with the growth/fostering of rugby in Sydney would come up with this as a solution. Should we go down this path the flow on affect to suburban junior clubs will be shattering. This will then penetrate through to the Shute Shield and the Waratahs. I further believe that once someone realises the damage that has been done through this course, we will have travelled too far and the fix will be many years in the making.
I am a suburban club and Rep coach. I know how difficult it has been for the clubs in my District to get individual club teams together this year, but we have managed. This will be lost if each of us has to turn around and tell them that it is now a 7's comp each Friday and/or Saturday at Concord. They simply won't participate as 7's is not what they are interested in. They want to play 15 a side rugby, as many have done year in and year out since the Under 6's.
Further, the greater majority of the players in our District are not private school students. This is their only avenue of playing rugby. We are simply handing Rugby League another free kick and some outstanding rugby union Representative level footballers.
The edict has not been issued formally by the SJRU, but I understand it is not far away. We need to voice our opposition to this course of action before it does become law and both club and district level.
I can't believe the body chartered with the growth/fostering of rugby in Sydney would come up with this as a solution. Should we go down this path the flow on affect to suburban junior clubs will be shattering. This will then penetrate through to the Shute Shield and the Waratahs. I further believe that once someone realises the damage that has been done through this course, we will have travelled too far and the fix will be many years in the making.
I am a suburban club and Rep coach. I know how difficult it has been for the clubs in my District to get individual club teams together this year, but we have managed. This will be lost if each of us has to turn around and tell them that it is now a 7's comp each Friday and/or Saturday at Concord. They simply won't participate as 7's is not what they are interested in. They want to play 15 a side rugby, as many have done year in and year out since the Under 6's.
Further, the greater majority of the players in our District are not private school students. This is their only avenue of playing rugby. We are simply handing Rugby League another free kick and some outstanding rugby union Representative level footballers.
The edict has not been issued formally by the SJRU, but I understand it is not far away. We need to voice our opposition to this course of action before it does become law and both club and district level.
Dave Beat
Paul McLean (56)
Well gee aren't we lucky we have this pathway to fall back on.
Looks great - but fuck - ensuring Junior Rugby lasts doesn't work sitting down doing power point presentations.
The junior clubs have just kicked the can for $200 a team - surely to fuck the ARU needs to step in and tell the SJRU to rack off you're a complete waste of space and $ with that type of "cop out" attitude.
These are the grass roots that need to be watered so they can grow into Wallabies.
Bill, the clubs have kicked they now need your support.
Excuse the language.
juniors spectator
Stan Wickham (3)
From what I understand this Saturday initiative is to ensure there is some club rugby on a Saturday for the older age groups. The Sunday comp will still operate. I have been told that 2 u/16 teams want to play on a Saturday. They cannot or do not want to play Sunday... 2 teams do not make a competition. Something has to be done to ensure numbers in older age groups....and trying something new to get a different group involved in Rugby seems a good start....there must be lots of boys at state schools who do not play any rugby on a Saturday who may get involved and you never know the numbers may enable a full comp later....
juniors spectator
Stan Wickham (3)
Also what happens to the couple of Killara high or Turramura boys at age 15 or 16 when the rest of their Sunday team decide to drop club rugby and concentrate on their school rugby?????
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
This looming catastrophe has been about 12 years in the making. The original move to Sunday rugby was to keep more teams going. An admirable objective, but long term it's actually killed junior club rugby.
Whereas before players left at 13 to go to private schools, the players who were left found a club and kept playing and that club usually kept going until 17s because it hadn't depended on private school players for 5 years, they had to pick up one or two players each year along the way but they made it.
Now what happens is these teams keep going beyond 13s propped up by private school players playing backing up for a second game. But when they hit 15 or 16 most of the private school players stop playing the second game, so most of the team leaves and it's too hard to go out and find 8 or 10 16 year olds to fill the gap. So now the team folds and the boys who are left can't find a team.
The only positive that I can see is that SJRU seem to have come to a similar conclusion. If they can re-invigorate Saturday club rugby and provide a meaningful competition for boys who don't have a school competition they will have done a great job.
And what is the ARU doing as junior club rugby sinks into the mire? Slaps them with a $200 levy - Bill, be a man and admit this decision is wrong and be big enough to scrap it immediately.
Whereas before players left at 13 to go to private schools, the players who were left found a club and kept playing and that club usually kept going until 17s because it hadn't depended on private school players for 5 years, they had to pick up one or two players each year along the way but they made it.
Now what happens is these teams keep going beyond 13s propped up by private school players playing backing up for a second game. But when they hit 15 or 16 most of the private school players stop playing the second game, so most of the team leaves and it's too hard to go out and find 8 or 10 16 year olds to fill the gap. So now the team folds and the boys who are left can't find a team.
The only positive that I can see is that SJRU seem to have come to a similar conclusion. If they can re-invigorate Saturday club rugby and provide a meaningful competition for boys who don't have a school competition they will have done a great job.
And what is the ARU doing as junior club rugby sinks into the mire? Slaps them with a $200 levy - Bill, be a man and admit this decision is wrong and be big enough to scrap it immediately.
Gary Owen III
Syd Malcolm (24)
Where does this stuff come from?
I have spoken in depth to 3 different people whom where at that meeting and that is not what transpired i am told.
The topic was the U16's on a Saturday where the SJRU has two and a half teams nominated as wanting to play Saturday rugby (the Sunday comp has many more nominations but as in years gone by these are down from the respective U15's numbers from the previous year). As two teams do not make a competition it was proposed that a 7's comp for this age group be created to be played on a Saturday afternoon. The idea to try to attract some fresh interest as the current offering is not working. Proposal was first one to be at St Lukes at 3pm on Sat and the 7's comp would be an U17's so to open to both 16's and 17's players. Then it was decided to offer same to the U15's to see if any interest.
Apparently the two districts with the current nominated teams then turned around and said they still wanted to play 15 man rugby - but against who? each other 14 times in a row? neither wanted to join Sunday as it affected their league kids (can you explain to me how this is different to Private schools not playing Saturdays?). It was proposed the Menai team might join the Sunday comp but play it games on a Friday night - this was to be proposed to the other clubs, but thoughts were many wouldn't play ahead of school games on a Sat.
There was talk re an opens (U17 or U18) and it was more for the SJRU propose to NSW that they invoke a 4th grade colts competition into the premiership clubs that would be an U17 or U18 comp. Get the powers that be to create an equivalent of a Harold Matts and give these lads a pathway thought the U18's. It was noted that plenty of U18 players are already at colts and wouldn't be that hard to install. but the Premiership clubs wont do it without a push. This is being taken to the board to discuss.
Interesting isnt it! The fat cats of the ARU underperform so they propose to slap every junior team (not club) with a $200 levy.
Meanwhile in AFL, any junior club that has had a player come through to play for the Sydney Swans receives $1000's a year. The player also visits the junior club for a few weeks every year to tell the up and coming juniors of his experience and promotes the game by visiting local schools and clubs etc.
Our local junior AFL club currently has one player in the Swans team and another young lad who is U17's this year and has been selected in the Swans reserve side. I have watched with interest the development of this player, whom I have no doubt, will make the senior side in a couple of years.
If the ARU are not financially sustainable at the top and have to 'steal' from junior clubs then they have failed miserably.
Dave Beat
Paul McLean (56)
Top Cat - to early to judge yet but I think it maybe Bills predecessor who could have created what we have now, and now difficult desions have to be made to rebuild / remodel
Plus him walking with a $2m. payout I think i have read.
Dave, Irrespective of who created the idea, it should not be happening.
Junior teams are not there to 'fund' the ARU and you can guarantee if it is put in place that the '$200 levy' would remain in place and just increase in time.
It's akin to taking money from your child's 'piggy bank' because as a parent you or someone else didn't undertake their parental responsibilities.
Junior teams are not there to 'fund' the ARU and you can guarantee if it is put in place that the '$200 levy' would remain in place and just increase in time.
It's akin to taking money from your child's 'piggy bank' because as a parent you or someone else didn't undertake their parental responsibilities.
Dave Beat
Paul McLean (56)
Top Cat, you mention the Fat Cats at the top of the ARU under performing. IMO it is still to early to make that call with Bill.
I was simply suggesting it was possibly Bill's predecessor that under performed and some difficult calls are being made to improve the position.
1. agree Junior teams are not their to fund the ARU.
2. agree with your piggy bank.
Dave Beat
Paul McLean (56)
.
Thought that, we can see things are happening now - some have raised concern ($200 / team), and others have created huge interest and ideas that people have shared right hear.
I'd be surprised if some of them didn't get serious airtime at the round tables in at the ARU - and this is a good thing.
Shane Smeltz
Fred Wood (13)
Absolutely. Football New South Wales has 220,000 registered players.
180,000 are Juniors.
Of the Juniors the club players pay around $200-$250 for a season of club. The representative players pay around $1500 (for ages 9-11) and max of $2500 for 12s and over for a season. A season for rep players is from Dec-Aug in FNSW-land.
There is plenty of fat in there for FNSW, FFA etc. Whoever wants a slice of the pie there is plenty there.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
just for the record soccer has levied junior teams for a number of years now. But remember Juniors wise soccer is a lot healthier than rugby.
That's right, and also soccer development is club based and there is a clear pathway from junior clubs to junior reps etc. In rugby the primary development of most the elite takes place in private schools - not paid for by the ARU but by fee paying parents.
That's right, and also soccer development is club based and there is a clear pathway from junior clubs to junior reps etc. In rugby the primary development of most the elite takes place in private schools - not paid for by the ARU but by fee paying parents.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
neither wanted to join Sunday as it affected their league kids (can you explain to me how this is different to Private schools not playing Saturdays?).
I'll try.
It goes like this; the boys at GPS/CAS/ISA schools are already playing rugby (in a well organised, well equipped and well-coached structure), so timing your matches so that they can play club rugby doesn't mean that there are any more boys playing, just that the same boys are playing twice as many games. On the other hand, if the matches are timed to allow boys playing league to also play rugby, it means that there are more boys playing rugby. That is the essential factor for me - more boys playing rugby.
This sleight of hand used by the ARU whereby they double and triple count the same players and boast that participation is actually rising when it's falling is a matter for another thread.
(What they do is count the numbers playing village rugby, count the numbers playing private school rugby, count the numbers in irregular gala days and count the numbers playing 7s and add them all together to get participation statistics.)
I'll try.
It goes like this; the boys at GPS/CAS/ISA schools are already playing rugby (in a well organised, well equipped and well-coached structure), so timing your matches so that they can play club rugby doesn't mean that there are any more boys playing, just that the same boys are playing twice as many games. On the other hand, if the matches are timed to allow boys playing league to also play rugby, it means that there are more boys playing rugby. That is the essential factor for me - more boys playing rugby.
This sleight of hand used by the ARU whereby they double and triple count the same players and boast that participation is actually rising when it's falling is a matter for another thread.
(What they do is count the numbers playing village rugby, count the numbers playing private school rugby, count the numbers in irregular gala days and count the numbers playing 7s and add them all together to get participation statistics.)
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