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Continued decline in Sydney Junior Rugby

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rugbynut2010

Bob McCowan (2)
So that will mean all players who left there village club to play 18s at district club will only get half season of rugby while the village clubs struggle for numbers.

All I see with 18s comp is that some players are going to get even less rugby than they did year.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
So that will mean all players who left there village club to play 18s at district club will only get half season of rugby while the village clubs struggle for numbers.

All I see with 18s comp is that some players are going to get even less rugby than they did year.

Presumably because the SJRU want the final to be played as part of their June long weekend spectacular.:mad:

There are none so blind as those who will not see.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Screen Shot 2015-03-20 at 12.26.55.png
Stumbled over this on a cycling blog
View attachment 5910
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
I stumbled across this little tid-bit in recent SJRU corresspondence.

Please be advised that Hawkesbury Valley Junior Rugby Union Club has requested to change their District affiliation from Penrith Juniors to Parramatta Juniors.

They are holding a Club meeting on Sunday March 22nd at 7pm at the Richmond Club. Under the SJRU Rules all Clubs must be notified of this meeting…please consider your Club notified!!
 

Marlins Tragic

Frank Row (1)
How are clubs going as we get close to season start?

Lot of clubs seem to be struggling to maintain numbers.

I understand that in 12s Harlequins have gone from 3 teams to 1 and that most of their A team from 2014 have gone to another club.

I've also heard of players from the peninsula playing for Gordon junior clubs, for reasons that I'm not aware.

These 2 developments don't fill me with confidence for the future of SJRU competitions.


Hi Quick Hands, Just on the Harlequin 12's, there were three very thin teams last year playing 12 a side and with the change to 15 a side this year the numbers were always going to drop.

It is unfortunate that a few trophy hunters decided to leave the A team for another club as early as last year, added to that a coach that made an unkept promise to coach the team ultimately led to other A players seeking other clubs. On top of that there were many players poached by AFL. Having said that five kids stayed in the age group as they were playing up last year.

I'll add that I think this would have happened next year anyway as a lot of those players that departed play Rugby League also + will be going to St Augustines & not played village rugby anyway.

Next year in the Manly district I think will see an A team each from Seaforth & Manly Roo's + a JV team with Roo's & Harlequins in the lower grades.

From 2017 they will all merge into the new Freshwater Vikings teams that begins at U14 level, this is like an insurance policy team put together by the district to combat the leaking of players to schools like St Augustines & Rugby League, three village clubs merging into one and graded accordingly, gives A players who don't go to St Augustines a chance to still play A level footy & there are quite a few that are not going to ST Aug's due to the way the "upskirt" incident was handled last year.

Anyway, onwards & upwards for 2015 :)
 

CatchnPass

Vay Wilson (31)
MT, interested in this as have seen same phenomenon over a number of years with very talented Harlequins teams in particular imploding at 13s. The GPS, CAS and other ISA teams that i am familiar with all seem to be happy enough for their cattle to keep playing Club till at least 15s, presumably a tacit recognition that perhaps it wasnt entirely down to the school 13As coach that some of the cattle can play. Is Auggies that different - really does not want its 13-15 yr olds playing Club, or is it more the insidious lure of the Mungo that decimates Peninsula rugby at this age?
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
MT, interested in this as have seen same phenomenon over a number of years with very talented Harlequins teams in particular imploding at 13s. The GPS, CAS and other ISA teams that i am familiar with all seem to be happy enough for their cattle to keep playing Club till at least 15s, presumably a tacit recognition that perhaps it wasnt entirely down to the school 13As coach that some of the cattle can play. Is Auggies that different - really does not want its 13-15 yr olds playing Club, or is it more the insidious lure of the Mungo that decimates Peninsula rugby at this age?

I don't think Augustine's care any more than other schools. I think one thing that league offers is a local competition, whereas junior rugby goes all over Sydney.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
Next year in the Manly district I think will see an A team each from Seaforth & Manly Roo's + a JV team with Roo's & Harlequins in the lower grades.

From 2017 they will all merge into the new Freshwater Vikings teams that begins at U14 level, this is like an insurance policy team put together by the district to combat the leaking of players to schools l

Anyway, onwards & upwards for 2015 :)

IMO this is a great initiative. It ensures that A grade boys play in A grade and so on. I dont believe that SJRU handle the grading process very well at all
 

CNorth

Herbert Moran (7)
MT, interested in this as have seen same phenomenon over a number of years with very talented Harlequins teams in particular imploding at 13s. The GPS, CAS and other ISA teams that i am familiar with all seem to be happy enough for their cattle to keep playing Club till at least 15s, presumably a tacit recognition that perhaps it wasnt entirely down to the school 13As coach that some of the cattle can play. Is Auggies that different - really does not want its 13-15 yr olds playing Club, or is it more the insidious lure of the Mungo that decimates Peninsula rugby at this age?


That's a stupid ill informed statement. How about the fact club rugby falls away dramatically after the 13s with numbers and skill. Look at the 15 a's this year with only 4 teams. What are you going to learn. Nothing. Epically with the same parents running club and rep. Hardly impartial or beneficial for a players development.
 

Shane Smeltz

Fred Wood (13)
Neither Manly nor Warringah have a 16A grade team this year.
Last year Manly Harlequins did have a 15As team but not Warringah. That A-grade Harlequins team has now fallen apart.
Where have the boys gone? Some playing school rugby for ISA, GPS, CAS, true. Some hanging up their boots and getting jobs or studying. Some playing league which is local as QH said.
There was an attempt to get a U17 Manly team - the 16s would play up but that fell apart too.
I know there is a U17 Forest (Manly Village) team that has the numbers though.

The Manly Village clubs combo team U14s are being called Vikings from this year, 2015. A parent tonight told me their son was playing U14s Vikings, A-grade is my understanding. There is a 7s tournament on tomorrow night at Bantry Bay, Seaforth.

As far as I know St Augs does not insist boys focus on school rugby. But from U15s it does get tricky with school training and club. Club is played all over Sydney as QH said which means Sunday is out as well as Saturday. Takes real commitment from the boys and their parents.
 

loiterer

Sydney Middleton (9)
IMO this is a great initiative. It ensures that A grade boys play in A grade and so on. I dont believe that SJRU handle the grading process very well at all


QH, Excuse my ignorance, how does the SJRU handle the grading process now? And how should it be done?
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
QH, Excuse my ignorance, how does the SJRU handle the grading process now? And how should it be done?

People self-nominate and then SJRU decide whether or not to accept. It's more s system failure than anyone particularly doing the wrong thing.

In the 10s last year there were 89 teams and I'd suggest that it's not possible to properly grade that many. In 10s to 12s it would be possible to have competitions run more locally - the current situation does not eliminate the mismatches, all it does is send kids and parents from one end of Sydney to the other for the same result.

I'll give you a little example. In an age group this year two clubs nominated to move from A grade to B grade. When they played each other last year Team A won 2 matches and Team B won the third. You'd think on that basis, they'd either both go down or Team B would go down. The SJRU decide that Team A goes down to B grade and Team B stays in A grade.

Or another example where a team played in D grade last year and didn't get within 50 points of anyone. They asked to go down to F grade this year, but were put in E grade. They've played two trials this year and lost them both - one of the teams they lost to is in F grade, the other is in G grade.
 

CatchnPass

Vay Wilson (31)
That's a stupid ill informed statement. How about the fact club rugby falls away dramatically after the 13s with numbers and skill. Look at the 15 a's this year with only 4 teams. What are you going to learn. Nothing. Epically with the same parents running club and rep. Hardly impartial or beneficial for a players development.

Thanks for your quality input CN. I was asking a question and the only statement was certainly not ill informed, but based on observation over several years. Sorry if your son was overlooked by the parents you speak of. In my experience quality outs over time and the best boys get selected. Have a good weekend.
 

CNorth

Herbert Moran (7)
Thanks for your quality input CN. I was asking a question and the only statement was certainly not ill informed, but based on observation over several years. Sorry if your son was overlooked by the parents you speak of. In my experience quality outs over time and the best boys get selected. Have a good weekend.

My son wasn't but shows how you think. No doubt your one of the parents that I mentioned. If so no need to ask if your son made it do I.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
The Manly Village clubs combo team U14s are being called Vikings from this year, 2015. A parent tonight told me their son was playing U14s Vikings, A-grade is my understanding. There is a 7s tournament on tomorrow night at Bantry Bay, Seaforth.

There will be a Vikings team in 14s, 15s and 16s this year. From what I know the 14s team will be in A grade, but I'm not sure what grade for the other 2 age groups. One of the reasons behind the move is to ensure that boys are playing with and against boys of similar ability and thus as many boys as possible receive a positive rugby experience.

Handled properly (and the idea seems a good one to me) more boys will stay in the game and will have a much better time of it. What's been happening just isn't working for many boys - it's great if you're a rep level player in an A grade team, but many other boys find themselves stuck in a team which is stuck in A grade and just make up the numbers.

There's about 10 11 year olds playing league, soccer or AFL this year because of grading issues in 2014.
 

Runner

Nev Cottrell (35)
Just a couple of observations:

1. if the parents are the problem then have other parents nominate for positions and work within the system. Nominate in numbers.

2. On the Penninsula how many schools play rugby in a structured competition? I suspect very few as the Government school don't enter much because it is out of hours. They can't all be going to Auggies who play ISA and I think they don't play any local competitions.
The other Private or Catholic school may play a few games in the Penninsula Cup (if that still exists) and enter the Waratah shield. Not what I would call a rugby program.

3. On the Penninsula how many schools play rugby league in a structured competition? I suspect very few as the Government school don't enter much because it is out of hours like Rugby. There is The Arrive Alive I think i'ts call state knockout which might get you a couple of games. Only Auggies once a Rugby League school shifted to union. Imagine if they played league with all their boys.

4. Competition from various other sports to me is a major issue. AFL is playing a very long game here with lots of work in primary schools. Get them young and they will be ours philosophy.

5. Throw in the insurance costs, the various scandals, mums attitudes to physical sports and funding issues into the mix
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
Just a couple of observations:

1. if the parents are the problem then have other parents nominate for positions and work within the system. Nominate in numbers.

2. On the Penninsula how many schools play rugby in a structured competition? I suspect very few as the Government school don't enter much because it is out of hours. They can't all be going to Auggies who play ISA and I think they don't play any local competitions.
The other Private or Catholic school may play a few games in the Penninsula Cup (if that still exists) and enter the Waratah shield. Not what I would call a rugby program.

3. On the Penninsula how many schools play rugby league in a structured competition? I suspect very few as the Government school don't enter much because it is out of hours like Rugby. There is The Arrive Alive I think i'ts call state knockout which might get you a couple of games. Only Auggies once a Rugby League school shifted to union. Imagine if they played league with all their boys.

4. Competition from various other sports to me is a major issue. AFL is playing a very long game here with lots of work in primary schools. Get them young and they will be ours philosophy.

5. Throw in the insurance costs, the various scandals, mums attitudes to physical sports and funding issues into the mix

Augustines are the only peninsula school who play in an organised Saturday competition, although there are a significant number of boys who go from the peninsula to GPS/CAS schools as well.

I'm reminded that Augustines face the same issues - they have a lot of teams in 13s and 14s but drop away sharply after that. In the older ages they have less teams than just about any other ISA Div 1 school - Shane Smeltz could maybe confirm this?

Don't underestimate the role of travel for northern beaches people, throw in teams being incorrectly graded and affected teams could lose 6-10 kids and while that doesn't seem many, it's enough to make a team unviable. I know/know of quite a few boys who play junior league ahead of rugby because the league comp is local - some of these kids play rugby for their school as well, but not for a club.
 

CatchnPass

Vay Wilson (31)
My son wasn't but shows how you think. No doubt your one of the parents that I mentioned. If so no need to ask if your son made it do I.

My boy was given some very good advice from an old hand when overlooked for early rep selection - "you can get angry or you can get better". He took it and yes, he made it, with no parent involvement at rep level. Might be worth considering.
 
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