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Deans confirmed until 2013

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Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
RR - bloody good point. He's indicated a positive desire to add at least an extra year to his current Reds' contract which I think ends at the end of the 2012 S15 season, and the extra year would be through S15 2013. But nothing's signed as yet as far as I know, so there's absolutely no grounds for complacency on this front.

There can be no question that with his outstanding recent Reds track record - almost of its type unprecedented in world rugby, a complete turnaround of a major team from bottom to top in less than 2 years of appointment - he is highly marketable and will be approached with lucrative offers. I prey that he stays here as he's done more per year of appointment for rugby's commercial and fan viability in this country than any other single person for a very, very long time.

Liink has executed the hallmark of fine, principled modern leadership: he has under promised, and way, way, over-delivered. He has never once dumped upon his team, or singled out individual player or team error to escape a spotlight upon himself, he takes responsibility for setbacks, he speaks clearly with typical intelligence and care, and always speaks of building upon positives. His selections are generally astute and properly managed and very low in error of choice or position, he has promoted and successfully risked many fine players old and new. He has created a sound and productive team culture in the Reds, built upon obviously happy players. He has consistently innovated in game plans and built the required maturity within his senior players to execute them with much finesse and discipline. His 2011 w-l % ratio is 15/18, 83%, truly world-class in any sporting code. His contributions, and that of his team and QRU management, have totally revitalised rugby in one of its great heartlands. Brisbane-ites love the Reds and talk openly of how excited they are about heading back to Suncorp for, hopefully, more of the same in 2012. Many of us are proud to be a fan of Link's and the Reds and all they now represent.

Summarily, Ewen McKenzie has proven to be an outstanding coach, leader and person. May others now strive to equal his achievements, relative to their assignments.

It would naive in the extreme to assume that Link wouldn't follow the well worn path of ex-Randwick Player/Coaches overseas to other national sides.

I still don't understand the rush to sign a manager (to use the Soccer terminology) who has to date failed to achieve any reasonable performance benchmark. A great irony that it happened on the day when the story broke of the CEO of the Commonwealth bank failing to achieve his long term bonus bench mark and essentialy getting a 50% (approx) pay cut. Perhaps Deans should get paid on performance only.
 

naza

Alan Cameron (40)
It would naive in the extreme to assume that Link wouldn't follow the well worn path of ex-Randwick Player/Coaches overseas to other national sides.

I still don't understand the rush to sign a manager (to use the Soccer terminology) who has to date failed to achieve any reasonable performance benchmark. A great irony that it happened on the day when the story broke of the CEO of the Commonwealth bank failing to achieve his long term bonus bench mark and essentialy getting a 50% (approx) pay cut. Perhaps Deans should get paid on performance only.

Make the players' pay linked to performance and you might have something. You cannot incentivize a robotic life form.
 

disco

Chilla Wilson (44)
Deans Wallabies are such a puzzle. They lose to Samoa , Scotland & always just scrape past Italy & probably should have lost that game in 2009 when Quade saved us.

Have a horrible record against the All Blacks 2 from 12 & only one of those games wasn't a dead rubber.

Yet for some reason under Deans we have won 3 games in S.A, 2 wins in Paris, 2 from 3 at Cardiff & Twickers which were all test venues we had poor records at under MacQueen & Eddie Jones.
 

naza

Alan Cameron (40)
Oh, its a puzzle alright. I would go so far as to say its a riddle wrapped in an engima.

Under Deans we're a super young team. There's a price to pay for that. It was more the 'up by 20 after 20 minutes, only to lose the game' 3N efforts last year that has shat me about Robbie's Wallabies.
 

Jnor

Peter Fenwicke (45)
Thanks for the information, Jnor. You can't even trust Google Translate. I kept looking at the "non" in the sentence trying to figure out its relevance. How do you think it should be constructed?

I think the edited version is pretty close but I'm not sure about 'continuano' as the 'ano' suffix usually denotes 'they' but it could also be formal 'you'.

I would guess at:
"Bastardo, continui(continuano) a cantare e finisci(finiscono) quando cantare correttamente."

In brackets being the formal verb forms, but I'm a little rusty.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
Deans Wallabies are such a puzzle. They lose to Samoa , Scotland & always just scrape past Italy & probably should have lost that game in 2009 when Quade saved us. Have a horrible record against the All Blacks 2 from 12 & only one of those games wasn't a dead rubber. Yet for some reason under Deans we have won 3 games in S.A, 2 wins in Paris, 2 from 3 at Cardiff & Twickers which were all test venues we had poor records at under MacQueen & Eddie Jones.

I think if you look at the trend carefully and. hopefully, objectively, what you see is this: the Wallabies are getting better at consistently beating teams that are, on the day, poor or 'OK', but they are not greatly improving in putting away teams that play consistently very well (all of 80 performance) to excellently on the given day.

Take vs England 2010. England were their rusty, stodgy worst in Perth. Wallaby win. They improved considerably for Sydney, especially in their backs: Wallaby loss. Twickers, they played v well for 80 (again notable England backs improvements), Wallaby loss. ABs HKG 2010, Carter only on for 50 mins (or was it 40?), The Duck makes some real, not-AB-typical bloopers late the game, close Wallaby win. Virtually every other time v ABs since 2007, we lose. France 2010: France plays OK for say 20-25 mins max, then totally fall away to a truly sorry state, Wallaby win. Samoa 2011: Samoa played very well on the day for all of 80, Wallaby loss (with excuses for the loss quickly bolted on, as usual). Scotland 2009: we may laugh at them, but on _that day_ they played well in their conditions, on their soil, and read the multiple Wallaby weak spots well: Wallaby loss.

SA: the Deans fans will be up in arms at me saying it, but Blind Freddy can see that since late 2009 the Boks have been in a spiralling decline: their coaching calibre is collapsing, they are making a number of poor selection decisions, they are under-promoting good young players and over-relying upon ageing stars whose fine wine maturation is over and we now see bottle oxidation instead (a la Wallabies 2003-2007?). They did not play well for 80 in Durban, almost grabbed a win, Wallaby ball handling was appalling (as was SA's) after weeks of prep, training camps etc, narrow Wallaby win. The ABs and Wallabies are going to get a much freer ride with the Saffers now until some kind of crisis over poor performance blows the current SARU up and real change begins anew. Of course, let's take the increasing win-rate v SA, but let's also be honest about the core trends in the opposition, as we mark ourselves with objectivity.

For me, the above analysis is why genuine, consistent improvement vs the ABs is so much more a meaningful measure of Wallaby excellence and deeper, well-rooted improvement in all facets of Wallaby play (or otherwise). It's solely because this AB team, this AB system, that AB culture generates an excellence of elite rugby that can be relied upon as a marker of consistent national rugby quality in almost all facets of play. Sure, if you can beat teams that have many 'down' days and can't put it on the field for all of 80, let's take those wins. But that, by the ARU's own stated goals, is never going to be enough to regenerate larger fan motivation and bigger commercial gains for the Wallabies as a successful sporting brand or as a business. (I know, I know, the mad passionates on GAGR etc will, God bless them, always be here and cheering on every victory and rightly awaiting glory, but we are also obliged to look at the bigger picture of rugby's regularly declining sports code share in Australia, and declining Wallaby match game gate and TV viewing figures as these KPIs ultimately drive the long-term viability of the code here, that is an inescapable fact.)
 
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Scarfman

Knitter of the Scarf
SA: the Deans fans will be up in arms at me saying it, but Blind Freddy can see that since late 2009 the Boks have been in a spiralling decline: their coaching calibre is collapsing, they are making a number of poor selection decisions, they are under-promoting good young players and over-relying upon ageing stars whose fine wine maturation is over and we now see bottle oxidation instead (a la Wallabies 2003-2007?).

The decline of the Saffers really makes us look better than we are. I feel that RSA and AUS have fallen back to roughly 6N standard. but we'll see about that, shortly.

I know, I know, the mad passionates on GAGR etc will, God bless them, always be here and cheering on every victory and rightly awaiting glory, but we are also obliged to look at the bigger picture of rugby's regularly declining sports code share in Australia, and declining Wallaby match game gate and TV viewing figures as these KPIs ultimately drive the long-term viability of the code here, that is an inescapable fact.

Don't mean to be a buzz killer, but I'm a bit off rugby at the moment. The way that the Waratahs and Wallabies are being coached (conservatively, and mysteriously, respectively) has given me the shits for long enough that it's dented my enthusiasm. Don't get me wrong, I'm not watching soccer or anything, just spending more time with the wife and kids, bless 'em.

Bring in Foley for the Tahs and Link for the Wallabies, get rid of Paddy O'Brien fucking up the game royally, and my hard-on for rugby will rise again.
 

vidiot

John Solomon (38)
I wonder if the ARU are stuck on the Deans experiment because of rugby politics and perceptions.

Objectively it is hard to say the wallabies are moving forward, unless you mean in the Julia Gillard sense, and Deans has been spectacularly ordinary in terms of results. So why rush to sign him up?

Is it because the job being open and having the applicants/coach with a history in australian rugby creates a whole new (or recreates an old) series of problems, whereas Deans is the familiar face of the old kiwi enemy that no one hates and everyone almost automatically respects, no matter how similar the on-field results seem to the start of his tenure and the preceding years?
 

disco

Chilla Wilson (44)
Deans seems a great man manager from the outside looking in as he has been able to get top young players signing on with out much fuss but also from the outside looking in he doesn't seem very open for change even when his plans have fallen well short.

I personally think Jim Williams is the bigger problem as under Foley in 2008 our forwards were very good but then went to shit in 09/10 but have made some progress again this year with Nucifora taking over some areas.

Why have both Williams & Nucifora? If Williams can't handle the job then cut him loose.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
I wonder if the ARU are stuck on the Deans experiment because of rugby politics and perceptions. Objectively it is hard to say the wallabies are moving forward, unless you mean in the Julia Gillard sense, and Deans has been spectacularly ordinary in terms of results. So why rush to sign him up? Is it because the job being open and having the applicants/coach with a history in australian rugby creates a whole new (or recreates an old) series of problems, whereas Deans is the familiar face of the old kiwi enemy that no one hates and everyone almost automatically respects, no matter how similar the on-field results seem to the start of his tenure and the preceding years?

As Scarfie so wittily opines, in many respects the Deans (and Deans-ARU arm-in-arm) story is in significant part a mystery odyssey. There are many components that may only be decipherable 20+ years from now, if then, time capsule-like.

I have genuinely tried to see a rationally well-based reason for this quite extraordinary re-signing 7 months (as it was flagged) before the very event - the 2011 RWC - that the ARU has more and more stated was to be the crowning objective of the ARU's hiring of Deans in early 2008 (this goal of the RWC win you will observe became more and more emphasised by the ARU as the raison d'être the greater was the absence of BC and 3N wins in 2008, 2009 and 2010). So, accordingly with this re-signing, the person so hired knows that he can perform to any sort of 2011 or RWC outcome and come what may he will still be in the job for another two years. This sort of 'freedom to do whatever' after 4 years already that have not delivered the original objectives (i.e., 3N and BC wins, and more than one) is highly unusual in the broad domain of highly remunerated, high profile leaders or international coaches. Typically, employers at this level expect demonstrable hard-edged (and not intangible) results within, say, 3 years, or they know change is required and, typically, rightly so. Moreover, there is the reasonable possibility that this guaranteeing of tenure irrespective of deliverables can subtly lower the hunger to deliver them; fear of failure and its demeaning job-losing consequences can be a partial real world motivator to drive for a result.

If we try and take another tack: Deans might go elsewhere if we obtain excellent RWC results, even then the whole logic looks odd because in that instance, if Deans was not excited and motivated to stay on in Australia as of November 2011, and truly wanted to do something elsewhere, then common sense would say let him do it, don't try and hold on to a coach who would prefer to be elsewhere for whatever reason (money, prestige, NZ love, etc). As Deans is openly saying now: 'I much want to stay in and with Australian rugby', why would that change essentially and in a negative direction if he led the team to RWC glory? And, on the flip side, if Deans was rock solid confident that he'd do very well this year, he'd know that it was highly likely the ARU would attempt to re-sign him (perhaps on even better $s) and, again, if they didn't, surely Deans would not want be with an RU that desired to look elsewhere for 2012 and beyond despite an excellent RWC outcome.

Moving on, the hard fall downside scenario looms. If Deans' Wallabies say lose the 2011 3N (BC gone already via the brain-addled, poorly prepared game we played in Auckland) and we just do 'OK' or poorly in the NZ RWC, then the ARU will essentially have nothing of substance to show for a 4 year 'major investment and rebuilding program' that they pre-committed to the Aus rugby public would deliver big time. It's highly doubtful in this case that the refrain of 'we have developed 5 X-factor players, beaten the ABs once and done better v the Saffers' would credibly hold water as a major achievement that justified almost endless patience and another 'roll over of hope' for yet another 2-4 years hence. Sometime, the Xs have to deliver with their team some very tangible trophy results or the gloss will fall away completely and this claim will just look like flimsy PR. But, in this seriously troubled scenario, the ARU will have locked in a coach that has failed against all pre-stated and committed objectives for Australia's national team. How can such an outcome look less than incompetent at best, and simply outrageously negligent at worst?

So, even if I mutate into a major Deans fan, it's still very hard to see how this pre-emptive, pre-final-big-objective, new locking-in commitment works well for the Australian rugby public. Ha, the mysterious odyssey continues.
 

Gagger

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Staff member
[theory]

I think maybe it's simple, though not fully logical.

The Lions tour is what will fill the ARU coffers again (the RWC is doing the opposite). JO'N wants to leave being able to point out how he left the ship in good shape.

JO'N and Robbie's boats are tied together - the recruitment 'process', the pre-emptive signing.

I think maybe the Lions tour has been what they've actually been building for the whole time - that's the 'obsession with youth'. The RWC would be great along the way, but it's not the money shot.

[/theory]
 

Scarfman

Knitter of the Scarf
[theory]

Perhaps we could permanently be building towards something and never win anything.

[/theory]
 

Nusadan

Chilla Wilson (44)
Goes without saying that Deans wanted to secure his future for next two years being based in Sydney for his family's sake as I believe his girl(s) go to a prestigious school in the North Shore...

But but...had he not signed and then gets the sack after the RWC, he could have used the Tahs as a fall back option! He'd be in Sydney still then!
 

Bowside

Peter Johnson (47)
Exactly, just like most players, deans has his strengths and weaknesses.

I mean take Pat McCabe, Nick Cummins and Luke Morahan. Last year they were ok, deans picks them for the spring tour, we all seemed to question it a bit at the time, this year they come good.

He is weak on game-plan mainly, and of course forwards play, but his greatest weakness is the fact that he didn't pick assistants who can cover these areas, so that they dont manifest themselves on the wallabies.
 
D

daz

Guest
I take full responsibility for dragging this old thread back into the light of day. What was I thinking?

I'll just go off and give myself an uppercut....
 

sneaker

Stan Wickham (3)
I reckon, the plan is Keep Deans until Ewen Mckenzie comes off contract. I believe he has extended until the end of 2013 with the Reds. So that gives him an open shot at the coaching job when Deans contract finishes. Really when you think about it there really is not many other candidates. Keep Robbie for another 2 years, keep the young team together and the same culture. Or Deans under performs and gets sacked early, you get a totally new coach that will chop and change things with new ideas and systems, or wait a few years longer and get the right coaching candidate.

I still reckon Deans needs to deliver something this year to make his appointment worth it, but I can see us making progress regardless of the crappy loses and draws, england, samoa, munster, scotland.
 

Gagger

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Staff member
I have it on good authority there are no plans with Link from the ARU's perspective
 
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