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England v Australia - Twickenham, 14 Nov, 4:30am AEDT

TSR

Mark Loane (55)
I disagree completely. Beale maybe, but the other three just need time.

we’d be so foolish to ignore Skelton, Arnold & Latu if they’re available. They’re on a hiding to nothing currently. I wager if available they’ll play a large and significant part of our RWC campaign.
in what way would we be foolish. Arnold has been somewhere between passable to good (it’s hard to quantify the importance of his defensive maul work against his lack of contribution in general play). The others have done nothing and they’ve replace players who were at least productive in the system.

They are all good players and no doubt it is hard for them to fit seamlessly into the current set up.

But that is part of the problem. A team is more than just a sum of its parts. They may still have a part to play, but the last 2 tests certainly haven’t don’t them any favours.
 

Derpus

David Wilson (68)
Also what does time have to do with 1 carry in forty minutes of football from a player who's supposed strength is carrying?
 

TSR

Mark Loane (55)
And I’ll add to what I’ve said previously - Skelton may be in superb form (as evidence by his standing in the French comp) but he doesn’t fit the current configuration or our pack. It doesn’t surprise me he is struggling to have any impact on games and I do agree he is on a hiding to nothing.
 

Joe Blow

Greg Davis (50)
I’ll text him now and see what he is chasing.
He is eligible, as is Beale, on the strength of the time they have already committed to Super Rugby and the Wallabies. He is as eligible as any player in Super Rugby.
So, there needs to be a resolution with his club. I am sure if he declares a desire to be a part of the Wallaabies from now until the conclusion of RWC 2023 that it should not be that hard to figure out. Right now he is our number one 10 by some margin. He is also the bloke we want to be bringing through the next generation of 5/8s.
 

Dctarget

Michael Lynagh (62)
Time? How do we get them time. They live in Europe.
Not sure, how ever the other squads have time to train together. I assume there’s much more of a build up for the RWC.

Arnold was our best lock when he went overseas, he’s been the European champion’s best lock. He was much better than Philip and Rodda in the same competition. We’re overreacting here. Fine don’t select him if he can never give more than a week of prep but he’s definitely worth trying to get in.
 

Derpus

David Wilson (68)
Not sure, how ever the other squads have time to train together. I assume there’s much more of a build up for the RWC.

Arnold was our best lock when he went overseas, he’s been the European champion’s best lock. He was much better than Philip and Rodda in the same competition. We’re overreacting here. Fine don’t select him if he can never give more than a week of prep but he’s definitely worth trying to get in.
I dunno - I just think you need time and continuity as a team to properly perform. They'll never have it - except maybe in a WC. At which point it'd be fucking bullshit to drop a player who's been a consistent part of the squad for a European ring-in.

If they were in Japan it would be different IMO. Far more opportunity to be involved.
 

Up the Guts

Steve Williams (59)
Philip and Swain have a level of aggression and passion that Arnold, Skelton, and Rodda don’t bring. I’ve been surprised they’ve opted for Rodda with Arnold and left Philip in the stands, Philip brings that mad man, won’t back down attitude that can bring the rest of the pack with him.
 

Derpus

David Wilson (68)
Philip and Swain have a level of aggression and passion that Arnold, Skelton, and Rodda don’t bring. I’ve been surprised they’ve opted for Rodda with Arnold and left Philip in the stands, Philip brings that mad man, won’t back down attitude that can bring the rest of the pack with him.
Yeah, Philip is the best of the lot IMO.

I can't get my head around Skelton having one run across two games. The fucks the point in having him in the side?
 

TSR

Mark Loane (55)
I don’t really see Philip’s aggression as his selling point though. He’s neither a line bender or a big hitter in defence.

What he does bring is a good mix of high involvement, mobility, tackling accuracy, volume of hit ups and generally good maul defence.

If anything I wish he’d pull his head in a bit because he’d hopefully give away less penalties.
 

dru

John Eales (66)
I dunno - I just think you need time and continuity as a team to properly perform. They'll never have it - except maybe in a WC. At which point it'd be fucking bullshit to drop a player who's been a consistent part of the squad for a European ring-in.

If they were in Japan it would be different IMO. Far more opportunity to be involved.

Singing a different melody than before the EOYT season, Derp?
 
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upthereds#!

Peter Fenwicke (45)
Discipline an issue, no real attacking platform and the score could have been a lot worse.
Hooper going off saw any chance we had of winning evaporate.
The bench wasn't able to add any impact at all - Not sure what Skelton is up to, he was on for 17 mins with 0 runs, 0 tackles.
Kellaway for FB next week.
Definitely saw Skelton run at least once, doesnt help when they keep sending it wide early.
 

Brumby Runner

Tim Horan (67)
Alright bc I'm a fucking sadist I watched it. And it wasn't as bad as I thought from us - but it was generally a poor game of rugby and frustrating to watch. England were there for the taking and we muffed it.

England first try - poor defence. Leota shoots but that isn't the issue; we have a stacked blind and SFA on the open. England manipulated us and we fell for it.

England's attack - speed of ruck ball and simple lines on attack are damaging us. We're too slow off the line and disjointed. Marcus Smith never got an easier ride but is finding this isn't club rugby. Missing a Swinton-style hard hitter at rucks and in close.

JOC (James O'Connor) continues to attack from depth as per last week, and it isn't working. I'm a believer in combinations and really, Tate should have started with him to see if that shifted the needle. Hopefully next week.

That was one of Beale's last appearances in gold. Tried a lot, did some good things, but lot of errors.

Fainga'a doesn't know the lineout Laws about numbers, and while personally I think numbers at lineout is the most technical, stupid Law in the book, that is how it is. A lot of players don't seem to want to know what they're responsible for, and for the most part it doesn't affect them.

Slipper's feet start a little too wide at scrum time, and too far back.

Our defence is very compressed off English set piece. Numbers end up uneven.

Valetini is having a good game. Leota with a couple of good runs as well.

Lol the line Curry takes straight at Hooper in minute 27 off an England lineout is hilariously offside and obstruction besides. Thankfully, Paisami scared the shit out of Smith who passes forward.

The yellow card against Wright was correct, but only awarded after the home broadcaster smashed up a heap of replays. Kind of like AAA last week.

Smart play by England in the 34th, just holding Itoje up half a second to encourage the early drive on the maul. England's maul is getting absolutely monstered otherwise. Good to see.

We conceded 10 penalties in 34 minutes. Not good enough.

White's trysaver on George was good, but it was not happening without Hooper dropping in from nowhere.

Scrum penalty to us in 38th on England ball. Nice. Shows the ability is there if everyone switches on, and England aren't 100% - Jamie George being the fall guy with his crook knee from Hooper's tackle.

I'm really not sure why we are trying second-man moves in our 22 after we bring it back to 16-15. JOC (James O'Connor) should be 15m back from the first ruck and booting it clear.

Around that 50 minute mark - Bell's yellow card - our defense starts to get very lazy and frustrated. High tackles, arm tackles, tip tackles.

England aren't even doing anything good. Marcus Smith is not the messiah. We're letting them rip the ball out of our hands like it's U15 v Colts.

And that's the frustrating bit: we got done by a Pommy side that didn't even get out of third gear. We broke them open several times but lacked the cohesion to finish the job.

We went back to that team that was Michael Hooper plus a bunch of guys he met in the carpark. When he went off, it was no worse, but the finishers didn't get any better.

And I stopped the replay at the point where the home broadcaster decided Pete Samu did a high tackle.
Pretty much agree with all of that Pfitzy, but can you clarify your comment about Fainga'a and the lineout laws please? Was it a Wallaby or England throw in? If ours, then it is up to the Wallabies to set the numbers in the lineout, but if it was England's throw, then was Fainga'a even part of the lineout? He normally takes the defensive spot in the tram tracks on opposition throws. How did he infringe?

Michael Hooper had one of his least effective games, and I also reckon there was there was no drop off when he went off. Gave away too many penalties and lost the ball in the maul when Hill almost scored. Not up to his normal standard\, but then, apart from Valetini, Leota and Paisami, no other player was either.
 

Brumby Runner

Tim Horan (67)
O'Connor was the form 10 until injury struck him down. Not playing for such a long period certainly hurt him. He improved over last week but the bar wasn't set very high
The way I look at it JC, he went somewhat backwards from last week. Both kicking from hand and his passing game were substandard and imo the primary reason the attack went nowhere. I reckon it was one of the poorest No 10 performances I have seen from the Wallabies.
 

Brumby Jack

Steve Williams (59)
Staff member
Definitely saw Skelton run at least once, doesnt help when they keep sending it wide early.

I watched back from when he came on. Running back to chase the last England try scorer doesn't count in those stats. He almost had a run around 74 mins but it was knocked on.
 

Up the Guts

Steve Williams (59)
I don’t really see Philip’s aggression as his selling point though. He’s neither a line bender or a big hitter in defence.

What he does bring is a good mix of high involvement, mobility, tackling accuracy, volume of hit ups and generally good maul defence.

If anything I wish he’d pull his head in a bit because he’d hopefully give away less penalties.
His main discretions are at the maul and, if anything, have looked like calculated concessions. I don’t think he loses his head like Swinton.
 
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