France v Australia

[Bobby Sands]

Slipper
Saia
Kepu
Simmonds
Horwill
McMahon
Hooper
McC
Phipps (How much has he come on!)
Foley
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
Lilo
TK
Speight
Izzy

Hanson
PAE
Toby Smith
Luke Jones
Hodgson
Skelton
Genia
QC (Quade Cooper)

 

[ChargerWA]

^

This could go either way.

Either France by 50, or Australia by 50.

^Agreed. The French are such an anomaly. They run hot and cold in ways that must break the hearts of their die hard fans.

I doubt it will be a game like the 2nd test in June.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Also, both Stephen Moore and TPN will improve our scrum immeasurably.
Other test sides generally take a step down as well when their bench front rowers enter the fray.
We are not that far off and I think that Skelton was fatigued during that scrum marathon and he just couldn't maintain his form and the pressure behind Kepu. Would have been nice to have Fardy there to back him up.

If he was fatigued at that stage, he should not be in the 23 man squad in the first place. I really don't think that was the cause of the poor scrums - moreso his (Skelton's) inability to pack and scrummage properly. In at least two of those scrums his head was visible above the props backside before the ball was fed and contested. His support of Kepu must naturally have been close to zero.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Slipper
Saia
Kepu
Simmonds
Horwill
McMahon
Hooper
McC
Phipps (How much has he come on!)
Foley
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
Lilo
TK
Speight
Izzy

Hanson
PAE
Toby Smith
Luke Jones
Hodgson
Skelton
Genia
QC (Quade Cooper)

Can you tell me, just when did Toby Smith and Paul Alo-Emile join the touring party?

 

[Bobby Sands]

Can you tell me, just when did Toby Smith and Paul Alo-Emile join the touring party?

They didn't, but they should be.

 

[Joe Blow]

If he was fatigued at that stage, he should not be in the 23 man squad in the first place. I really don't think that was the cause of the poor scrums - moreso his (Skelton's) inability to pack and scrummage properly. In at least two of those scrums his head was visible above the props backside before the ball was fed and contested. His support of Kepu must naturally have been close to zero.

It could have been lack of concentration. Either way he was disconnected from the front row and the other second rower shortly after the scrum engaged.

 

[Scotty]

As silly as this sounds if like to see Skelton start with Horwill on the bench and Carter having a rest.

 

[Ulrich]

I get the feeling France are much better than before and I don't know why. Still, I think the Wallabies will win by 8-10 points.

The French play on emotion to a big degree which may explain their varying performances. So if they tune in with emotion and the crowd senses that then they can make life tough.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Can you tell me, just when did Toby Smith and Paul Alo-Emile join the touring party?

Paulie should not even be talked about until he's good enough to start in Super rugby - End of story....

 

[fatprop]

If he was fatigued at that stage, he should not be in the 23 man squad in the first place. I really don't think that was the cause of the poor scrums - moreso his (Skelton's) inability to pack and scrummage properly. In at least two of those scrums his head was visible above the props backside before the ball was fed and contested. His support of Kepu must naturally have been close to zero.

and Kepu historically struggles when he is near out of juice. He loses technique at scrummaging (which makes it more difficult for his lock), enters rucks wrongly etc.

The "trick" is to have a competent bench - to get the most out of Kepu and then throw on someone equally as competent to close out the game

 

[Viking]

and Kepu historically struggles when he is near out of juice. He loses technique at scrummaging (which makes it more difficult for his lock), enters rucks wrongly etc.

The "trick" is to have a competent bench - to get the most out of Kepu and then throw on someone equally as competent to close out the game

Except we don't have anyone equally as competent. Alexander had a good super rugby season, especially scrummaging wise, but he's gone back to his old ways and seems like an utter liability again.

Our back-up props are a massive issue.

Our first choice players seem to be able to hold a scrum well, even dominate at times. But as soon as their is a replacement we fall apart. Eg. Skelton for Carter, Or any of our props.

The worst thing is we just don't seem to have to playing stock to fix this. Luke Jones might be a great choice for lock, Sio to backup Slipper, I can't see any back-up for Kepu, or any other options that aren't out of left field. Both Ben's are done in my books.

 

[Braveheart81]

Regardless of Skelton, I think we were always going to be in trouble once we got to a few resets at that moment.

Kepu was tiring and Jenkins had just come onto the field opposite him.

Having a quality bench prop come on against a tiring starting prop seems like the time of most vulnerability. It might have gone ok if Carter had still been on the field instead of Skelton, but I'm not overly convinced.

After the second scrum reset (the first one being non-existent when Slipper went straight to ground and was penalised), Skelton completely lost his body position and was useless but there looked to be problems on the left hand side of the scrum as well.

Slipper was losing contact with Fainga'a and Simmons was pushing between the two of them which turned Slipper out. I don't know if that was just a result of Skelton's problems on the right hand side but it seemed to be in addition to that.

Regardless, there's plenty to work on in the scrum particularly when trying to counteract opposition replacements who are superior to ours.

 

[Pfitzy]

And it would have helped if Joubers had run the same ruler over Wales' props when they were infringing at scrum time.

 

[No4918]

Skelton shouldn't start until he can scrum. He was all over the place in the scrum that lead to the penalty try and the one or two before it. Considering the drop in quality to the bench props he could just exacerbate an already significantly weaker scrum even if he is on the bench.

 

[fatprop]

Skelton shouldn't start until he can scrum. He was all over the place in the scrum that lead to the penalty try and the one or two before it. Considering the drop in quality to the bench props he could just exacerbate an already significantly weaker scrum even if he is on the bench.

Skelton shouldn't start, simples, his overall lock work isn't up to test standard, you can be a lock who works hard on the ground like Thorne (scrummaging, tackling, cleaning out etc) or a lock who works the air like Matfield, but you can't be neither.

 

[Braveheart81]

Skelton shouldn't start, simples, his overall lock work isn't up to test standard, you can be a lock who works hard on the ground like Thorne (scrummaging, tackling, cleaning out etc) or a lock who works the air like Matfield, but you can't be neither.

That stats ForceFan compiled showed that Skelton had both good workrate and effectiveness around the ground against Wales.

I agree that he won't t be starting but I think we'll be seeing more of him on the bench this tour.

 

[fatprop]

That stats ForceFan compiled showed that Skelton had both good workrate and effectiveness around the ground against Wales.

I agree that he won't t be starting but I think we'll be seeing more of him on the bench this tour.

If I was picking the side, I would have Horwill, Simmons & Carter sharing the lock time for the next three tests.

 

[Dumbledore]

Paulie should not even be talked about until he's good enough to start in Super rugby - End of story..

He is good enough to start in Super rugby, which is why he has. That's like saying Kepu shouldn't be talked about because he wasn't starting for the Tahs. People are keen on him because he's young, strong, and looks fundamentally very solid. If you ever read Dwyer's stuff, he's constantly going on about it. And he just spent the last couple of months beasting the remaining LHPs in the country for fun. I'm not massively convinced he's significantly better than Weeks, but he's got a much higher ceiling and he's a lot younger. I think we're going to look back on this tour and see it as a missed opportunity to give him a run.

 

[Joe Blow]

It is almost impossible to have bench props that come on and do as good a job as your starters. Ditto for second rowers, otherwise they would be starting.
Alexander did a very good job on the weekend. His work rate was high and he scrummaged OK. He has a ton of experience.
Very few sides have replacements that scrum at the same level as the starters.
Skelton offers something different and if we are having issues with getting over the gain line in close and/or stopping the rolling maul then he becomes the perfect sub.

 

[Brumby Runner]

That stats ForceFan compiled showed that Skelton had both good workrate and effectiveness around the ground against Wales.

I agree that he won't t be starting but I think we'll be seeing more of him on the bench this tour.

That thought fills me with a certain amount of dread. He might be a force against the French if he gets on the ground but I think at this stage he will be a liability against the Irish and English. And I am not a Skelton hater. I very early called him as a future Wallaby based on his work around the ground and especially in rucks and mauls, but he hasn't yet lived up the those early expectations. His impact with ball in hand has waned, and he just doesn't yet offer anything at the scrum or lineout. He needs another year or so at Super level with appropriate coaching and mentoring to reach the standards required of a test player, and imo could really use a drop in his weight by about 5 - 10 Kgs to improve his game fitness and explosive impact in contact.