France v Australia

[fatprop]

That is laughable Fatprop.

Last week I think it was you who made excuses for Alexander saying he has been depowered since the hit was removed because he is tall. 6'2".

Not me mate and Blades is a good scrum coach who has now survived 3 coaches whilst everyone else was moved on

Alexander is part of the Aus approach to rewarding props with great work-rates not scrummaging.

He has never been known for his scrummaging work

I assess Blades performance over his time by looking for consistent improvement in skills execution of individuals.

So Slipper, Kepu, Nau & Moore's improvement have been by someone else?

 

[emuarse]

SA scrum smashed them a couple of times after a shakey start, and SA stole a few lineouts.

Ireland piled on the pressure on the Boks and forced them into a fair few mistakes. Irish forwards were rather physical and strong, I think that's the worry.

Agree we have them in the backs, but that's not to say the Irish backs aren't bad. Connor Murray had a pretty good game from halfback. Carney, Bowe, Payne, Sexton are all no slouches as well.

It was interesting to see Jared Payne, from the Blues, playing at 13 for Ireland.

Are these guys playing for La France now?
After all, this is a Wallaby/France match game thread.
At least I thought so.

 

[Dumbledore]

by the same token if you agree with everything Bob says we'd have TK at 12, Beale at 10, Izzy at 13, and Quade somewhere on the moon

 

[Gnostic]

Not me mate and Blades is a good scrum coach who has now survived 3 coaches whilst everyone else was moved on

Alexander is part of the Aus approach to rewarding props with great work-rates not scrummaging.

He has never been known for his scrummaging work



So Slipper, Kepu, Nau & Moore's improvement have been by someone else?

They have been consistent in their current mode since the removal of the hit with perhaps some improvement which could be argued could be due to bedding down of those laws.

The only big improver I though you'd point to has been S. Fainga'a.

Yes Alexander was never known as a great scrummager, but his issues have been the same for a very long time with no improvement.

Just because he survived Deans doesn't make him any good, it was widely speculated including here, that he was retained because the ARU couldn't afford to pay him out. If Foley had accepted the offer made to him by Chieka it would have been interesting times. Now who else is there available with top level coaching experience to take the position? Maybe that is why he is still there. Survival doesn't prove one's abilities, any more than qualifications on paper without commensurate results.

 

[emuarse]

It wouldn't totally surprise me if Cheika experiments this weekend with the starting halves and Inside centre that played the tests at last year's EOYT, to get a sense of comparison i.e. Ginea, Cooper, and To'omua.
At the same time, resting the incumbents from the Welsh game for the Irish & England games, but also altering them for those games if any the three aforementioned pull off a blinder(s) .
Just a thought.

 

[Muglair]

emuarse, I hope that Cheika is persisting with the team he thinks will win and be the core for the RWC, the time for chopping and changing expired a while ago.

Regarding the scrum I think 2005 was the low point. I think Dunning and Baxter were crucified for what was a woeful pack performance at the scrum. Foley made real progress with this and I think there was a real failure in the system when he was dropped (Deans or the ARU?).

Jim Williams was appointed forwards coach and I do not think Blades had any responsibility for the scrum in that time. It certainly went backwards and if he was there then he shouldn't be there now. However my understanding was that he was appointed later and then had to inherit a scrum that has gone backwards.

Having said that, he is making some, but SLOW, progress. Skelton was not getting in that position at the Waratahs. I will be watching more closely at the weekend as to how the entire scrum is forming up. At the Waratahs it has been noticeable that the 2nd row starts on its knees, fully bound to the front row. I suspect we have reverted to the Wallaby cuddle.

 

[Muglair]

The more I think about it, the more I see a Cheika/Foley/Larkham RWC

 

[Pete King]

It wouldn't totally surprise me if Cheika experiments this weekend with the starting halves and Inside centre that played the tests at last year's EOYT, to get a sense of comparison i.e. Ginea, Cooper, and To'omua.
At the same time, resting the incumbents from the Welsh game for the Irish & England games, but also altering them for those games if any the three aforementioned pull off a blinder(s) .
Just a thought.

I think at the moment its Phipps as first choice half and daylight second. Genia looked to be out of sorts when he came on, loopy passes , slow to breakdown and was it just me or did he seem to have dropped about 5kg!

Wouldnt be suprised to see Cooper picked on the bench and get some substantial game time though.

 

[Pete King]

Pretty much everybody. Locks are a real problem.

Think he is by far the worst of the lot and Horwill offers far more at this level.

 

[Muglair]

It is hard to see us coming up with a winning 2nd row combination unless Skelton makes huge strides and someone else steps up in 2015. The 8 man bench could be our saviour by just running through 4 locks every game. While the versatility in the backline may have cost us in the past by enabling chopping and changing it may enable such a plan as we have so many players who are test class or at least pretty competent in three or more backline positions.

Blah blah blah. So probably we do need to fiddle in that area in the EOYT. At some stage that is going to require Jones and Skelton getting good game time at the expense of the established three.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

emuarse, I hope that Cheika is persisting with the team he thinks will win and be the core for the RWC, the time for chopping and changing expired a while ago.

Agree there. We've got what, 3 tests before we play in TRC 2015 and 6 in that tournament before the RWC? I would think that Cheika would be very focused on having the basic structure (tactics and personnel) of the Wallabies well and truly sorted out before then. There are still a few contentious spots (lock being two, as well as the wings) but overall I would think the core of the team will change very little between now and next September. A little bit of tinkering only I would have thought.

 

[Bobby Sands]

Phipps
Foley
Speight
Karmichael / Lilo
TK
JOC (James O'Connor)
Izzy


That backline can win the cup.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

by the same token if you agree with everything Bob says we'd have TK at 12, Beale at 10, Izzy at 13, and Quade somewhere on the moon

As much as I agree with the considerable wisdom of Sir Bob of Coogee most of the time, I can't for the life of me understand why he bangs on about TK at 12 so much. Firstly, he's killing it at outside centre and secondly it's not like we don't have some good options at 12. I'm a firm believer in having the rapier and sledgehammer (as it were) combination in the centres. That is, a distributor and a crasher. Now it doesn't matter too much which position either plays in, but I believe you have to have that balance (look at Nonu and Smith as a classic example). If we move TK to 12 then who plays 13? Probably AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) but then I think we've got the balance wrong. No point having a powerful centre combination if the ball never gets past them in attack.

 

[Bowside]

That is laughable Fatprop.

Last week I think it was you who made excuses for Alexander saying he has been depowered since the hit was removed because he is tall. 6'2". Do you realise that Kepu is 6'2" as Jannie Du Plesis. Ben and Owen Franks are both listed at 6'1".

It is primarily about technique and skills development. The fact is Alexander has been let down by Australian Rugby not having any real specialist coaching with this regard. Blades has had what 5 or 6 years to develop those 6 front row options. It is his fault they are not up to standard as much as limitations in Australian players. Many of those he has had to work with in the Wallabies set up have not progressed skill wise and in some cases were discarded totally, like Ma'afu, who became a much better scrummager when he was coached.

I assess Blades performance over his time by looking for consistent improvement in skills execution of individuals. There has been no such improvement and therefore what results do you have to say Blades is executing his tasks effectively? Indeed the Skelton binding issues highlighted against the Wales has been consistent since the French tests in June. That is 5 months ago in which to speak with him and "coach" him to correct the issues. Yes part of that time Skelton is back with the Tahs, but I ask is Blades a full time coach looking at these Wallaby players all the time or just when they are in camp. FFS this is not a new issue, as is Alexander's leg positioning and shoulder height issue. The players have technical issues and as I said above they just have not been addressed.

I was disappointed that Blades was retained and really hoped that Foley would step into the position in addition to his Force duties.

I think you are being a bit harsh on Blades.

I have regularly criticised Kepu and Simmons over the last few seasons. I still don't think both are not top-quality players, but since Blades came on board he has managed to turn Kepu into a prop who can hold his own for 60 minutes, and Simmons into a dominant lineout forward. Both were good for 1-2 silly penalties a game and now they give away hardly any.

Alexander is a shit TH prop with obvious technical issues. He should have been dropped years ago. Very few dispute that.

Alas maybe a new forwards coach is needed.

However, I would go with Nick Styles. He did amazing work with a no name forward pack in the NRC for Brisbane. Their body height and tightness in the scrums+mauls was excellent. Some of that is coaching, some of it is due to the fact that he picked short wide props, and shorter locks with long arms.

It was reminisent of the french tight 5 from 2009-2011 with Mas, Servat, Domingo and Pape. I personally think this is the best model to follow when building a tight 5 because you can pick lighter quicker players and still dominate at scrum time.

I think Foley has demonstrated a poor attitude as a coach in the past, especially in the way he handled the lions tour game last season.

 

[Steve-e]

I like having 4 locks and would like to see it continue, because this gives opportunity for both Carter and simmons, our best 2 set piece options 1 year out from RWC, to increase their work loads, knowing that both would be subbed out at some point. I also can't help but think with Skelton on the bench as the go to reserve lock, we also need Horwill there. We can't risk an early injury requiring Skelton to play the majority of a game. Hence Skelton needs to quickly fix his scrummaging problems, fitness and just what seems to me laziness at times. Carter and Simmons need to play harder and smarter (less stupid penalties), and Horwill needs to continue to find his form. We need that continual punch from our big men throughout the entire game no excuses. then maybe a full set of 4 locks is the right way to go. If not I think we're going to miss having fresh legs of a back coming onto the field late in the game and challange tired defences.

 

[Joe Blow]

It's easy to say that we don't need a 3rd back or a second backrower or whatever on the bench but the reality is that the bench needs to be balanced in case of injury and to be able to finish off games the way the coach wants to.
Having 2 locks on the bench is very unconventional and I am sure there are very good reasons why this is so and why teams go with a 5/3 bench for the vast majority of the time. Fact is we don't have a 15 man bench so we cannot sub out every player at some point.
Historically we have had a 5/6 type player on the bench or a 5/8 like Samo so that we are covered and a little flexible. Luke Jones seems like a good bench option being the former. McCalman and Dennis are a bit small to be effective at lock at test level but both can play 6 and 8.
2 out and out locks on the bench? I say no.
Also having 3 smallish backrowers in the 23 as we did last week is leaving ourselves potentially exposed at the set piece and in the physical stakes.

 

[fatprop]

They have been consistent in their current mode since the removal of the hit with perhaps some improvement which could be argued could be due to bedding down of those laws.

The only big improver I though you'd point to has been S. Fainga'a.

Yes Alexander was never known as a great scrummager, but his issues have been the same for a very long time with no improvement.

This is what I fail to understand with this type of coaching critique, any improvement, by any player, appears to be by rule change whilst any lack of improvement is down to the lack of coaching.

It simply can't be both

Just because he survived Deans doesn't make him any good, it was widely speculated including here, that he was retained because the ARU couldn't afford to pay him out. If Foley had accepted the offer made to him by Chieka it would have been interesting times. Now who else is there available with top level coaching experience to take the position? Maybe that is why he is still there. Survival doesn't prove one's abilities, any more than qualifications on paper without commensurate results.

So what you are saying is that Deans, McKenzie & now Cheika are not reasonable judges of coaching ability

 

[Scrubber2050]

Reckon Horwill will get a start and with Simmons.
Rest of pigs pick themselves this week (only spanner might be Higgers if fit)

Similar to the backs. Same. The main questions are for me:

Will Speight get a run-on spot after a average peformance last time?. IMO Cheika will retain Tomane.
Will Robbo come back to the bench ?? Could go wither way with Faulkner - don't think he even packed down in a scrum last time - I could be wrong.

Wallabies will continue implementing Cheks game plan. Thery will be better this week than last.

Wallabies to win comfortably.

 

[KOB1987]

Reckon Horwill will get a start and with Simmons.
Rest of pigs pick themselves this week (only spanner might be Higgers if fit)

Similar to the backs. Same. The main questions are for me:

Will Speight get a run-on spot after a average peformance last time?. IMO Cheika will retain Tomane.
Will Robbo come back to the bench ?? Could go wither way with Faulkner - don't think he even packed down in a scrum last time - I could be wrong.

Wallabies will continue implementing Cheks game plan. Thery will be better this week than last.

Wallabies to win comfortably.

Tend to agree with all of this although I wouldn't be surprised to see Jones get a spin at 6 if Higgers is still out. If Speight is anywhere in the 23 you would think that Tomane would be rested, either Horne/AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) will start with Speight on the bench or vice versa.

 

[Steve-e]

I can agree on the merits of a more balanced bench, and wouldn't mind seeing Jones on the bench for this game as another option.