Hane vs Springbokke

[Blue]

Yeah Rusty you're right. Maybe I felt the need to acknowledge Snor. OK I won't then

I really think the French are going to throw the kitchen sink at us. I hope guys like Bakkies can keep his cool.

The French have done all the "tough" talk though.

Yes Lee, Adi Jacob's defense is the second weakest point after our scrum. Having said that, JdV's defense was actually quite poor this year and he didn't cope with Jamie Roberts in the Lions series...

Schalk Burger is the best insurance policy we have though. Nobody covers the backline slips as well as he does.

Kirchner had an OK season. Nothing flash. I don't seem to recall him making any glaring mistakes in the big games. His best rugby all year were in the S14 semi and finals. But it was at home. I would have started with Pienaar.

 

[PaarlBok]

Yeah Rusty you're right. Maybe I felt the need to acknowledge Snor. OK I won't then

Bliksem Blue it took me 2 years, a bet and a cupboard full of trophes to convert you and just when I thought you are on the right track you loose your faith. (Never listen to the souties )

Rusty aint right , two things of importance

Heinke aint injured and if the coach and selectors were hard arse like some of the not so past they would have pick him on the bench.

The coach override his own policy by picking a overseas player, CJ van der Linde. One part of me say its right, one part still say its wrong. Do we want to keep our players playing in SA and keep our CC and the S14 strong or is it country first and the strongest Bok team on the field? I am still not convinse BUT at least Snor show signs of Bok team first.

Pleasing politicians for the sake of rugby in SA is as much as a reality as Zuma is the pres of our country. If you think otherwise your living in lalaland or like Rusty a XPat in the USA. Despite Snor being a coloured person the pressure is on him as much as it was on Jake White. He seems to handle them a bit better or play more the rules in try to please them. Fact is he have to give as much coloured players the change to show their mettle on the highest level and the dirt tracker matches obvious the right option. Altho I cant find to much wrong in the pick of Guthro/CBor Dr Doep to much at fault in the first place. They were second obtions right through the 3 Nations. They did not produce and they also dont look much injured (bar CB) when they were replace. Maybe injured for their country if you get my drift. Myself think CB wasnt that bad and his leadership looked OK. Anyway at least Rose (as much as I hate to say this) and specially Ashley look like the real deal this time.

OK back to the test

Yes Lee, Adi Jacob's defense is the second weakest point after our scrum. Having said that, JdV's defense was actually quite poor this year and he didn't cope with Jamie Roberts in the Lions series...

Schalk Burger is the best insurance policy we have though. Nobody covers the backline slips as well as he does.

You touch the key to a win for us here. Myself are looking forward to see them do just that, add Brussouw and Bakkies and hopefull we'll own the breakdowns and give Steyn and FdP quick ball.

Have no idea what the French loose trio can offer but Brussouw & Schalk on defense and poaching wont be match easily. If they play the ref and do this well we'll be in great shape.

Kirchner had an OK season. Nothing flash. I don't seem to recall him making any glaring mistakes in the big games. His best rugby all year were in the S14 semi and finals. But it was at home. I would have started with Pienaar.

After last week and Brisbane I think Pienaar should stick to 9 replacement.

 

[PaarlBok]

To get back to the overseas thing, here you go regarding Wiaan du Preez
SARugby .com

Du Preez signs for Munster
Tuesday, November 10 Print | Send Submit Cheetahs prop Wian du Preez is poised to take up a three month contract with Irish club Munster.

The loose-head prop - who could make his Springbok debut off the bench on Friday night in Toulouse - is set to join Munster who are suffering a front row injury crisis.

Munster have lost Marcus Horan, Dave Ryan and Darragh Hurley to injury and have identified the outstanding Cheetahs prop as cover.

27-year-old Du Preez is no stranger to answering front row emergency SOS calls after earlier this week being added to the Springbok squad following injuries to Gurthro Steenkamp, Chiliboy Ralepelle and Jannie du Plessis.

Du Plessis will join up with Munster at the end of his commitments to the Springboks' European tour on a three month deal provided he obtains a release from SA Rugby and is awarded a work permit.

I got the idea Rassie & Snor dont set well with each other. I would have pick Blaauw. Maybe a good thing he get another season of S14 behind his belt because in fatty terms still very young. But still he was the best LH in this years CC. The one thing I like about his scrumming is that even if he get a bad hit (got penalise for hand dropping but fix that pretty quick), still have the power to get a good scrum or left shoulder.

Regarding Chilliboy, myself think he MUST move to the Lions. There he wont warm the bench specially now with Gary Botha's return. I still havent lost my faith him.

 

[Blue]

To get back to the overseas thing, here you go regarding Wiaan du Preez
SARugby .com

Du Preez signs for Munster
Tuesday, November 10 Print | Send Submit Cheetahs prop Wian du Preez is poised to take up a three month contract with Irish club Munster.

The loose-head prop - who could make his Springbok debut off the bench on Friday night in Toulouse - is set to join Munster who are suffering a front row injury crisis.

Munster have lost Marcus Horan, Dave Ryan and Darragh Hurley to injury and have identified the outstanding Cheetahs prop as cover.

27-year-old Du Preez is no stranger to answering front row emergency SOS calls after earlier this week being added to the Springbok squad following injuries to Gurthro Steenkamp, Chiliboy Ralepelle and Jannie du Plessis.

Du Plessis will join up with Munster at the end of his commitments to the Springboks' European tour on a three month deal provided he obtains a release from SA Rugby and is awarded a work permit.

I got the idea Rassie & Snor dont set well with each other. I would have pick Blaauw. Maybe a good thing he get another season of S14 behind his belt because in fatty terms still very young. But still he was the best LH in this years CC. The one thing I like about his scrumming is that even if he get a bad hit (got penalise for hand dropping but fix that pretty quick), still have the power to get a good scrum or left shoulder.

Regarding Chilliboy, myself think he MUST move to the Lions. There he wont warm the bench specially now with Gary Botha's return. I still havent lost my faith him.

du Preez makes sense. He has been in the Bok setup and he scrums next to Strauss and has scrummed with CJ.

Age, combinations and experience in the Boks setup make him the better choice (he has been in the squad twice before).

The Bok management seems to think he is a better option that Blaauw and so does Munster for that matter.

It has nothing to do with Rassie. It's a practical decision and I think it makes 100% sense.

 

[PaarlBok]

Oh well I can live with his selection, holding tumbs it all work out fine. Just hope Munster dont poach him permanently. Like I said Blaauw sure one to look at in the future and now with Gary Botha return we still have him and Liebenberg to call on.

Just show the value of this midweek dirt tracker matches and hope we can get our TH stock also in line.

 

[PaarlBok]

Look like Beast wont play , Stofile getting into the act. Waiting for the third mishappen of the day.
Rugby365

Beast still a Bok ... or is he?
Thu, 12 Nov 2009 11:15


Political pawn: Bok prop Tendai Mtawarira

Zimbabwean-born Springbok prop Tendai Mtawarira will remain with the South African team on the eve of their Test against France in Toulouse on Friday, but he might still be declared 'ineligible' to represent the world champions.

In the ongoing saga surrounding Mtawarira's citizenship, which threatened to rule him out of the year-end tour to Europe, it has been claimed that Sports Minister Makhenkesi Stofile has still not given permission for the man known to all as the 'Beast' to play for the Boks.

A source close to the Springbok team told rugby365.com on Thursday that the 24-year-old front row forward, who has 19 Test caps to his credit, will remain with the Bok squad - despite some intense behind-the-scenes negotiations.

The saga has been dragging on for almost two weeks and it has now emerged that the South African Rugby Union had approached the Sport Ministry to help "fast-track" the player's citizenship application.

Mtawarira does not have permanent residence, nor does he have a South African passport. According to reports he has a work permit only which entitles him to play for the Sharks in the Currie Cup and the Super 14.

Last Saturday SARU said in a statement that Mtawarira had been cleared to tour with the Bok squad following "productive discussions" between SARU and the Sports Ministry.

SARU was alerted to clauses in the National Sport & Recreation Amendment Act, 2007, which needed to be completed before Zimbabwean-born Mtawarira's place in the end-of-year tour squad could be confirmed.

"We are delighted with the news after discovering this problem during the week," SARU President Oregan Hoskins said at the time.

"The government has been very helpful in expediting the completion of the necessary protocols and we're all relieved that Beast will be available for selection for the Springboks against France in Toulouse on Friday."

However, the minister, Stofile, has since released a statement which appears to contradict this.

According to the statement (see below), Mtawarira is still ineligible to play for the Boks.

The full statement from the Ministry of Sport and Recreation:

"SUBJECT: MINISTRY OF SPORT & RECREATION COMMENT ON TENDAI MTAWARIRA's INCLUSION IN THE SOUTH AFRICAN RUGBY TEAM

"1. SA Rugby has requested the Minister of Sport & Recreation SA, Rev Dr Makhenkesi Stofile to intervene in securing South African citizenship for Tendai "The Beast" Mtawarira, a Zimbabwean national, who plays professional rugby in South Africa.

"2. This request to have the Minister use his position to have the process of securing permanent residence and subsequently, citizenship expedited ahead of the year end tour in Europe, has exposed our Sport administrators’ clear disrespect or lack of understanding of our laws.

"3. Talented as he is, Tendai, like all foreign nationals plying their trade in South Africa, is bound by the laws of this country. The migration laws of our country are clear on issues relating to permanent residence and citizenship. We expect our sport administrators to understand and respect legislation that regulate their business. None of the athletes, sport codes, or Federations can be bigger than the country.

"4. While Tendai is a live wire on the field of play, the question is whether it is, in the first place, justifiable to say he has scarce skills – the rationale that would have enabled him to obtain the current work permit. If we go the route our Rugby administrators are requesting us to take, and facilitate the fast-tracking of Tendai’s citizenship, what would this say to all rugby players in our country? We cannot as a Government Department responsible for sport and recreation in this country, afford to insult our players like this.

"5. The principle here is clear: Only citizens of our country can play for our National team, irrespective of the sport code. Therefore, no foreign national can play for any of our national teams, no matter how outstanding they may be. If any player in any code is to become a South African citizen, this has to be done within the legal framework of our country.

"6. Federations, Provinces and clubs, are more than welcome to approach us for advice on similar issues, instead of trying to slip a player through the legal framework.

"Issued by: Sport and Recreation SA."

 

[Thomond78]

There's a - very nice, let it be said - but rather pissed-off West Country gentleman farmer heading towards SARU headquarters looking for a quiet word about ineligible players playing in important one-off series...

 

[Moses]

Beast Barred

Although prop Tendai 'The Beast' Mtawarira has been named in the Springbok team to face France on Friday night, a statement by the Ministry of Sport seems to cast doubt on whether Mtawarira will be wearing the green and gold jersey in Toulouse.

Zimbabwean-born Mtawarira has already played 19 Tests in the green and gold and was a key player in the Springboks' historic series victory over the British and Irish Lions.

Times LIVE contacted the sport ministry's spokesman Manase Makwela this morning and asked him to clarify the department's statement regarding Mtawarira.

Asked whether 'The Beast' can play for the Springboks on Friday night, Makwela said: "We don't want to be seen as interferring. We hope they do what we feel is right for our sport."

He said: "It's not about the player concerned, we're saying: 'Let's try develop our own players.'"

"We won't be telling SA Rugby who to play and who not to play," said Makwela. "We have made our own stance."

Times LIVE has been unable to get comment from the SA Rugby Union.

The Springboks play France in Toulouse on Friday night (kick-off: 9.45pm SA time).

Read the media statement released by the Ministry of Sport and Recreation regarding Tendai "The Beast" Mtawarira's inclusion in the Springbok rugby team and decide for yourself (key paragraphs underlined for emphasis).

SUBJECT: MINISTRY OF SPORT & RECREATION COMMENT ON TENDAI MTAWARIRA's INCLUSION IN THE SOUTH AFRICAN RUGBY TEAM

1. SA Rugby has requested the Minister of Sport & Recreation SA, Rev Dr Makhenkesi Stofile to intervene in securing South African citizenship for Tendai “The Beast” Mtawarira, a Zimbabwean national, who plays professional rugby in South Africa.

2. This request to have the Minister use his position to have the process of securing permanent residence and subsequently, citizenship expedited ahead of the year end tour in Europe, has exposed our Sport administrators’ clear disrespect or lack of understanding of our laws.

3. Talented as he is, Tendai, like all foreign nationals plying their trade in South Africa, is bound by the laws of this country. The migration laws of our country are clear on issues relating to permanent residence and citizenship. We expect our sport administrators to understand and respect legislation that regulate their business. None of the athletes, sport codes, or Federations can be bigger than the country.

4. While Tendai is a live wire on the field of play, the question is whether it is, in the first place, justifiable to say he has scarce skills – the rationale that would have enabled him to obtain the current work permit. If we go the route our Rugby administrators are requesting us to take, and facilitate the fastracking of Tendai’s citizenship, what would this say to all rugby players in our country? We cannot as a Government Department responsible for sport and recreation in this country, afford to insult our players like this.

5. The principle here is clear: Only citizens of our country can play for our National team, irrespective of the sport code. Therefore, no foreign national can play for any of our national teams, no matter how outstanding they may be. If any player in any code is to become a South African citizen, this has to be done within the legal framework of our country.

6. Federations, Provinces and clubs, are more than welcome to approach us for advice on similar issues, instead of trying to slip a player through the legal framework.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/sport/article191225.ece

 

[PaarlBok]

Re: Beast Barred

Posted it on the test thread. Still try and figure out what will happen if he do play, the usual kak we are use to from Stofile or is it trouble with the IRB? Anywasy wont be a train smash if he dont play, du Preez just have to step up and Heinke move to the bench. Beast havent been in good form lately.

 

[Moses]

Cheers PB, I hadn't seen it in here. The timing is sublime, wait till they've in France and have a prop shortage.

 

[PaarlBok]

They also have CJ that can prop both sides but still, that name Stofile will turn the screws now even tighter on rugby after the Kings debacle. Myself just hoping and praying rugby dont end up in the total chaos we have in poofball & athletic in SA. They wont rest till they have done it.

 

[PaarlBok]

heard Marius Joubert will do the jersey handling this week for the Bokke and is going to sleep over at Daan Human. Now with this Beast problem may be a good thing if Snor sommer pick Daan. He should handle the Haan scrumming power with ease.

 

[PaarlBok]

After a week the French talk of war our biggest soldier making the right noise and we need a big one from Bakkies. Think our tiow french surname players Burger & Brussouw hold the secret to this test. They will have to be hunger like a lion on the blue prey but Bakkies will be the person that need to hunt close on their footsteps. Look like the tough talk all week from the French has fired up the man Bakkies and just hoping he and Schalk will play hard but within the rules concept.

Sport 24

I'm not violent - Bakkies

Toulouse - South Africa's chief enforcer Bakkies Botha has insisted that what goes on during a game of rugby was neither "violence" nor anything to do with his normal life.

Botha, standing 2.02m tall and weighing 118kg, has built a reputation on being the hard-man of a hard Springbok team, renowned for using his enormous physical strength in clearing out rucks and putting in some bone-crunching tackles.

That has seen him run into trouble, most recently during the British and Irish Lions tour in the summer when he was banned for two weeks for a "dangerous charge", having hit a ruck that left Welsh prop Duncan Jones with a dislocated shoulder.

But the 30-year-old, capped 63 times by South Africa and in the line-up to face France at the Municipal Stadium here on Friday, said he was really "quite a relaxed guy".

"A lot of people think I bite my wife and kick the kids," Botha joked Thursday. "But I'm really a very different person off the pitch to the player I am on it.

"Someone must really rock the boat to get me going."

Botha also dispelled talk about the levels of "violence" in games.

"For me, violence means guns and knives. A game for me means physicality, and physicality gives me goosebumps, the idea of going around shifting rucks around the field," he said, praising fellow lock Victor Matfield with whom he forms the best second-row pairing in world rugby.

"Victor brings a calmness to the game and hopefully we'll keep going until the 2011 World Cup," Botha said.

"It's like a relationship we have and we must work on it every day.

"Victor calls the line-outs but I can read his body language and I know without him saying what he'll call.

"We still push each other and know there's room for improvement and especially with things to achieve."

The 32-year-old Matfield, who spent six months at Toulon and who will win his 90th cap against France, admitted: "Maybe I'm the brain and Bakkies is the brawn.

"I enjoy playing with Bakkies. He does all the hard work and allows me to play!

"Bakkies brings physicality and a hard edge that the Boks need. There's not a player in the world who can hit a ruck like him.

"I really hope we can go on for two more years and get better and with every year work harder to improve," said Matfield, man-of-the-match in the final when South Africa won the 2007 World Cup in France.

"But first things first - we haven't beaten France on French soil since 1997 and it would be a great achievement if we could do that."

Botha also had a parting word of warning for Sebastian Chabal, the hirsute French lock or No 8 who is on the replacements' bench for Friday's clash.

"I think I know who he is," he said. "The man with the nice, straight hair... Maybe I'll meet him in a ruck or two."

 

[Thomond78]

Matfield the brain.

Right.

Now, I've heard Mnr. John Botha speaking, and I've got good enough Kitchen Dutch to recognise that he's quite articulate and thoughtful, and has an unusually un-ghastly accent for a Vaaaaawwwwwlie.

Whereas Matfield is a drooling Mongo in any language.

www.rte.ie, 19:30 GMT, bit of proxy fiddlng, enjoy!

 

[BillyWebb]

Matfield the brain.

Right.

Now, I've heard Mnr. John Botha speaking, and I've got good enough Kitchen Dutch to recognise that he's quite articulate and thoughtful, and has an unusually un-ghastly accent for a Vaaaaawwwwwlie.

Whereas Matfield is a drooling Mongo in any language.

www.rte.ie, 19:30 GMT, bit of proxy fiddlng, enjoy!

He's certainly a fantastic rugby brain.
Just ask the O'Connell who has talked about "owning" Matfield the last couple of times Matfield came up against the Irish and Lions. Matfield dominated him so much you could be forgiven for thinking he had placed a collar and leash around O'Connell's neck.

 

[Thomond78]

Matfield the brain.

Right.

Now, I've heard Mnr. John Botha speaking, and I've got good enough Kitchen Dutch to recognise that he's quite articulate and thoughtful, and has an unusually un-ghastly accent for a Vaaaaawwwwwlie.

Whereas Matfield is a drooling Mongo in any language.

www.rte.ie, 19:30 GMT, bit of proxy fiddlng, enjoy!

He's certainly a fantastic rugby brain.
Just ask the O'Connell who has talked about "owning" Matfield the last couple of times Matfield came up against the Irish and Lions. Matfield dominated him so much you could be forgiven for thinking he had placed a collar and leash around O'Connell's neck.

Got a link for O'Connell saying that, Billy? Because if you don't, and knowing POC's style, I have suspicions about that one.

BTW, the last time Matfield beat O'Connell's team without Bakkies Botha there was...?

 

[BillyWebb]

Jeez, it was a while ago, but quite widely reported in the SA press.
I'll have a dig around to see if I can find it.

In retrospect, I believe the words were "boss" Matfield.

 

[Thomond78]

Jeez, it was a while ago, but quite widely reported in the SA press.
I'll have a dig around to see if I can find it.

In retrospect, I believe the words were "boss" Matfield.

I've checked it; he never said it. It was Keo's headline on comments from Willie John about how important it was to match Matfield.

 

[BillyWebb]

Jeez, it was a while ago, but quite widely reported in the SA press.
I'll have a dig around to see if I can find it.

In retrospect, I believe the words were "boss" Matfield.

I've checked it; he never said it. It was Keo's headline on comments from Willie John about how important it was to match Matfield.

Ah well, then apologies to POC. (Like he cares one way or another :lmao: )
I knew someone was rabitting on about their match-up.

Do you have a link to it Thomo?

 

[Biffo]

Do not ever be fooled by headlines in newspapers. I have several times pointed out in this place that sub editors put screaming headlines over very innocuous subject matter to get a reader's atention.