Homophobic remark in Tahs Brumbies game

[No4918]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-24/holmes-pocock-exposes-rugbys-lip-service-to-equality/6342978

Wayne Smith's article in the Australian finishes with this:

If Pocock wants to make political statements, one rugby official told me yesterday, he should stand for parliament. I hope he does. He'd get my vote.​

Mine too. It's just a shame that taking a stand against homophobia is seen as something that should be sidelined from sport, despite their claims, and assigned to the political domain. If Pocock's future is stymied because he continues to stand up for what is right then all of rugby's lofty claims will be shattered.

 

[Slim 293]

Some insight from The Guardian.........

It’s one thing for the ARU to support events such as the Bingham Cup, the so-called Gay Rugby World Cup, to sign onto clauses such as anti-homophobia and inclusion framework, and to encourage players to march in the Mardi Gras parade. But it’s quite another to take concrete action to stamp out homophobia when it rears its ugly head mid-match. At the weekend Pocock stepped up when match official Craig Joubert failed to act.

Sadly, none is this is overly surprising on one level. By any estimates there must be plenty of highly conflicted and deeply repressed Australian sports people placing their career above their own open sexual freedom. Comment columns of mainstream news sites reveal prevailing attitudes that such language is just part of the game. Here’s a typical reader response from a Fox Sports forum on Monday night: “harden up mate, did the name calling hurt your feelings so bad that it made the brumbies lose the game? Coaches take note. if u want to beat the brumbies call them names and theyll [sic] be too busy crying about it and forget about playing rugby.”

But this outcome has shown that “hardening up” has nothing to do with it. Such comments flung about like dirt on sports field are surely a contributing factor as to why there is not a single player in Super Rugby, the NRL, AFL or A-League brave enough to step forward as gay in 2015. These are the kind of casual insults that cut deep and inflict real damage.

.........

A number of leading sports and social commentators including Peter FitzSimons and Tim Wilson immediately took to Twitter to congratulate Pocock on taking a principled stand. Potgieter at least had the decency to own up to his comments and make a considered and convincing response. Full credit to him for that.

What Pocock has propagated here is something deeper – cultural change. That will only happen when people are willing to stand up mid-match and call out inappropriate behaviour as and when it happens. Such ideological warriors are essential on the sports field because they can provide a bridge between the changing political demographic that no longer buys into misogynistic, homophobic or racist attributes formally associated with a different era of macho culture. Just because we play sport doesn’t mean we’re obnoxious bigots.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/mar/24/brave-david-pocock-should-be-commended

 

[Braveheart81]

Unfortunately for Pocock, there's definitely an element of conflating the Maules Creek protest (which was political) with point out homophobic slurs on the rugby field (which is not political).

It's unfair on him (but sadly not really unexpected) that because he is outspoken on some issues off the field, everything is now viewed in the same light.

 

[Tomikin]

Poeys also part of https://www.athleteally.org/ which focus is against this exact thing. He has done the right thing in standing up and calling out this bullshit.. JacPot's doesn't hate gays, but it's not on.

 

[Viking]

Seb

I racked my small brain but only can come up with inappropriate ones.

All the ones I used as a young bloke have been deleted from my mind.

What about:
"Golly gosh Jacques you are a long hair "or

"William, You are not playing well today, at least that is my subjective opinion and if you canvass the rest of the guys out here they would, objectively, arrive, in my opinion, to the same conclusion"

I reckon those types of modern sledges would terrify the opposition.

Haha inappropriate can be acceptable. IMO you can call any player a dumbass, pussy, d*ckhead, shit, wanker.

 

[Scrubber2050]

You've said it yourself. Times have changed.

Just because something was more meaningful and hurtful in the past because of various social norms (being called a bastard) doesn't mean it is the same as another form of insult now.

We have come to realise the damage caused by homophobia and our society has decided that it is unacceptable in this day and age. The ARU and rugby union in general has jumped on board and agreed that it is unacceptable in the game.

Just because they're both insults doesn't make them equal.

Clutching at straws here,

An insult to one group of people is the same as an insult to another group

The result is the insult and if it offends then it should be scrubbered

 

[Braveheart81]

Clutching at straws here,

An insult to one group of people is the same as an insult to another group

The result is the insult and if it offends then it should be scrubbered

Yes, clearly bastards have faced the same kind of violence and vilification that others have received based on sexuality and race. It's all the same.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Haha inappropriate can be acceptable. IMO you can call any player a dumbass, pussy, d*ckhead, shit, wanker.

Funny - Actually I agree with you.

BUT a bloke might get "offended" or "insulted" at being called a "wanker" particularly if the player is particularly religous, come from specific islander communities. - he may be horrified at being called that.

It seems that players just need to always shut their mouths - tough ask in the heat of battle

 

[Godfrey]

This is the last time I'll make this point, but Scrubber it really isn't about offending people. Can you not see how the impact of that kind of language and it's implications would affect gay men in ways much more serious than offence? People have already mentioned suicide statistics.

Just like a black person would not feel welcome or accepted if people used "nigger" in the same way they use "faggot". When you call someone a "faggot" and you really mean "fuckhead" or whatever, you are associating gayness with negative connotations - now repeat that ad infinitum in every schoolyard, pub, footy field, wherever in the country for decades. It's about stamping something out that has a gigantic impact on people's mental health and it just does not compare in any way to just being insulted. It's not a guess that it has this impact and down-the-pub common sense doesn't refute it - it's well documented.

 

[BDA]

I think the writer of The Guardian article hits the nail on the head by pointing to the fact that there is not one openly gay male playing professional rugby league, rugby union or AFL in Australia. (perhaps in the world).

In fact it's hard to point to any openly gay players in any contact sport playing professionally at the highest level anywhere in the world. NBA player Jason Collins was the first I know of to come out whilst still contracted, but ended up retiring (I believe?) at the end of his contract. I recall seeing there was an openly gay NFL player that was signed, but was released a short time later.

The closest thing we have is a couple of gay referees in union and league. How do you think Nigel Owens would have reacted if he'd been reffing this game?

 

[Godfrey]

Exactly. There's no expectation that people should reveal their sexuality or anything like that, but the fact there are none at all is pretty telling.

I reckon Nigel Owens would have handled it pretty well, he's got a good attitude I reckon. He's been the target of abuse before at games (from fans) but doesn't let it detract from the rugby and is totally comfortable on the pitch:

 

[Froggy]

I read FitzSimons comments. He needs to hope people he played against have short memories!!!

 

[BDA]

I reckon Nigel Owens would have handled it pretty well, he's got a good attitude I reckon. He's been the target of abuse before at games (from fans) but doesn't let it detract from the rugby and is totally comfortable on the pitch:

Yes, I'm sure he would have handled it well.

Although I believe Nigel Owens was calling for those fans that were hurling homophobic slurs at that game to be banned from attending live games for life.

 

[Slim 293]

Rathbone chimes in..........

But Rathbone said adverse reaction to Pocock's stance showed sport still had a long way to go to address homophobia.

​

Rathbone wrote a column for Fairfax Media in April last year about a close friend who had been secretly dealing with their homosexuality in professional sport.

"Words such as 'faggot' and 'homo' are not accepted in most workplaces, but in the testosterone-driven world of men's sport, they remain commonplace," Rathbone wrote at the time.

Rathbone's friend, referred to as John, said: "I don't want people not to say what they think, I want them to realise how ignorant their words are and recognise the harm that these words can do."

Rathbone said the days has gone when what happens on the field, stays on the field.

"The fact people have come out and attacked Dave shows how far we've still got to go on this issue," Rathbone said.

.........

"What Dave is doing is about authenticity and truth. This idea that we should deal with this behind closed doors, this is not for public consumption, that needs to be readjusted ... like it or not there's [on-field] cameras, microphones, everything, this is the world we live in now."

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/b...d-pococks-clyde-rathbone-20150324-1m6em0.html

 

[papabear]

I am against homophobia and any sort of marginalising anyone.

If someone is marginalising you because you have a different sexual preferences to them , or for any other reason know that they are the one with issues, you are awesome and you are able to live your life without trying to bring others down to that level.

edited

 

[Braveheart81]

The element of sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me seems to have fallen by the wayside in todays world.

In that we no longer pretend that a simple saying alleviates any of the hurt and damage that words can cause?

 

[papabear]

In that we no longer pretend that a simple saying alleviates any of the hurt and damage that words can cause?

No, in that build you character strong enough that you are able to persevere and not be hurt by offensive things people might say to you and about you.

Be smart enough to realise that those things arise from their issues and you need not be dragged down by them.

Again I am against marginalising people, but I also think that a wise, strong , sophisticated individual should realise bullshit talk for what it is bullshit talk and not let themselves be hurt by it.

IE, yes you are an idiot if you are a professional rugby player threatening your career by dropping marginalising slurs -
- you are an idiot both because you are threatening your career for nothing.
- and because you are hurting a whole lot of people for nothing.

However, don't be insulted by what he says, they are his issues, be the bigger man and appreciate he is the one with issues and his words can not and will not hurt you.

 

[southsider]

All of you who are drawing comparisons to this and been called a "wuss" or a "bastard" and asking where the line will be drawn obviously still don't get it..

Calling someone a faggot or calling someone gay as an intended insult is basically saying that you think gay people are of a lower form and that being gay is something to be ashamed of. That's where you draw the line.

If Potgeiter calls someone a faggot on the field and a gay 15yr old 'Joe Blog' is on the sidelines or watching it on TV and hears it, damage is also been done to him.

A direct insult like calling someone a wuss or bastard on the field starts and stops with the players on the field, it doesn't have repercussions with a wider demographic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And calling someone a bastard is saying that actually being a bastard makes you a lower form of human too. Ok so maybe being a bastard isn't as insulting as it used to be but the basic point is the same

How about calling someone fat?? Still a insult in this era and still a very prevalent theme of bullying, especially in the schoolyard. Will a fine be handed out for calling someone fat?

Or how about calling someone a ranga? Like I have seen multiple people do on this site overtime, used as a insult, highly prevalent in schoolyard bullying and I recently saw a study that said the a unusual amount of redheads are joining Islamic extremist groups because they get ostracised in the western world. So next time someone has a dig at kellaway or magnay on the field is that going to be acceptable?

 

[Braveheart81]

No, in that build you character strong enough that you are able to persevere and not be hurt by offensive things people might say to you and about you.

Be smart enough to realise that those things arise from their issues and you need not be dragged down by them.

Again I am against marginalising people, but I also think that a wise, strong , sophisticated individual should realise bullshit talk for what it is bullshit talk and not let themselves be hurt by it.

IE, yes you are an idiot if you are a professional rugby player threatening your career by dropping marginalising slurs -
- you are an idiot both because you are threatening your career for nothing.
- and because you are hurting a whole lot of people for nothing.

However, don't be insulted by what he says, they are his issues, be the bigger man and appreciate he is the one with issues and his words can not and will not hurt you.

Well people do get hurt by what other people say. Particularly when those people are young and facing challenges that they don't know how to deal with.

Do you really think in the past people weren't affected by insults and slurs and that the sticks and stones idiom was actually true? I don't.

 

[Sully]

We should also get rid of that old saying and edit it as follows:

"Sticks and stones will break my bones but names will always hurt me"

It's not a saying. It's something we mumbled through the tears as the other kids chanted horrible things at us.

Too much info?