Hore's brain-fart

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Zinny was on a hiding to nothing there. There is no way he would have been able to express enough outrage to satisfy the British viewing public. It would have been no different had it been Will Carling (for instance) discussing the actions of an English player on Kiwi TV.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Jeremy Guscott was a voice of reason on that Interview.

ZZB could have been a little more forthright in condemning the swinging arm action, but you can imagine the headlines back in the Shaky Isles (or Mud Isle for that matter "Former All Black Captain Critical of Lack of All Black Discipline" or some other hyperbole dreamed up by a Sub Editor keen for a sensationalist title.

 

[Torn Hammy]

The thing that irks me about this incident is that apparently the only people of the 80,000 present who didn't see a blatant king hit from behind were the four officials and the NZ coach. In a well run sport all five would have been sitting him down for the match.

Adding to this farce is the prospect of Hore missing just the one match. Really, what do all these rugby officials do all day?

 

[Antony]

It's an interesting dynamic in rugby. All AB front-rowers have an enforcer portfolio, and that can lead to them being thugs - from this incident, to Woodcock v Fainga'a, to Mealamu on O'Driscoll, to the Franks brothers' lead-with-the-forehead tackles, to Fitzpatrick's and Loe's entire careers. The same is true of other countries I'm sure, I just don't pay the same attention.

The standard response is that there is a difference between big men putting on a bit of niggle, and one bloke belting another in the back of the head - and that is true, and that is why Hore should be banned for quite a long time. But the difference is really one of scale rather than type, so I find a lot of the moral outrage over this to be fairly confected.

Hore is a thug, but he plays a game where the line between Brad Thorn and Martin Johnson is a finer one than many care to admit. In NZ at least (and England too, while we're at it) there either needs to be less hero-worship of "hard" players - to the detriment of the game - or this has to be regrettably expected occasionally.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

yeah, that Meads is a right bastard, isnt he.

Can't see Zinny being in a hurry to be back on that show - said his piece, said unforgivable, not part of the game etc and then that host just goes on and one. At least Guscott got some perspective.

I thought Zinzan dealt with it pretty well - he had a few "brain farts" too in his time

 

[Inside Shoulder]

It's an interesting dynamic in rugby. All AB front-rowers have an enforcer portfolio, and that can lead to them being thugs - from this incident, to Woodcock v Fainga'a, to Mealamu on O'Driscoll, to the Franks brothers' lead-with-the-forehead tackles, to Fitzpatrick's and Loe's entire careers. The same is true of other countries I'm sure, I just don't pay the same attention.

The standard response is that there is a difference between big men putting on a bit of niggle, and one bloke belting another in the back of the head - and that is true, and that is why Hore should be banned for quite a long time. But the difference is really one of scale rather than type, so I find a lot of the moral outrage over this to be fairly confected.

Hore is a thug, but he plays a game where the line between Brad Thorn and Martin Johnson is a finer one than many care to admit. In NZ at least (and England too, while we're at it) there either needs to be less hero-worship of "hard" players - to the detriment of the game - or this has to be regrettably expected occasionally.

Great post - "like" would not do it justice

 

[hawktrain]

I would be interested to hear what your mate thinks of what Greyling did to Richie McCaw's jaw given that (by his logic) it is exactly the same situation. I.E. an opposition player being in the wrong position and another dude sending him a message not to be there again.

McCaw wasn't really in the wrong position was he? When Greyling hit him he was on his backside, on his own side of the ruck.

 

[gel]

McCaw wasn't really in the wrong position was he? When Greyling hit him he was on his backside, on his own side of the ruck.

 

[brumsfan]

Nothing hard about a cheap shot from behind, just pathetic and deserves a very lengthy ban. All players are entitled to be protected from idiots like that.

 

[Dan54]

Sorry, just got back from NZ, so haven't read most of posts, but who has worked out that Hore will get a one game suspension?? I am wondering why anyone is getting upset that is all it will be until after the hearing, everyone I spoke to in NZ thought it would be top end, about 6-8 weeks. Funnily enough watched the test in a pub with a whole lot of Ab fans, and a few Welsh ones (bloody good time it was too for supporters on both sides) and the only ones not really trhinking it was top end were the Welshmen- so figure that one.

 

[hawktrain]

I take it this is disagreeing with me saying that McCaw wasn't in an illegal position? He'd been sat on his backside by one of the other Bok forwards, so he was out of the ruck, nowhere near the ball, and not doing anything. Watching it back, the ball was available to the halfback before Greyling dove through to hit McCaw, so I can't see how McCaw was doing anything wrong by sitting next to the ruck...

 

[gel]

<snip>so he was out of the ruck, nowhere near the ball,<snip> sitting next to the ruck.

So we agree then. In the wrong place. Like the Welsh guy.

Your friend thinks it's ok for an all black to injure another country's player, but both you and your friend think it's not ok for another country's player to injure an all black.

You appear to have a conscience (at least as far as fellow new zealanders are concerned).

Your friend appears to be Richard Loe.

Both acts were despicable and unnecessary.

 

[Bullrush]

The Welsh guy was being a dick. I don't think Hore really intended to king-hit him but that's what happened and he'll probably get a lengthy ban for it.

All this BS about the AB's being a dirty team and Hore being a grub is just that.....bullshit. I really don't think there are any 'dirty' teams in international rugby. I don't think any team gets together for trainings and starts devising ways to hurt and injure opposition players or how to maim their opponents. Every team wants to be brutally physical - we as fans want that - but I don't think there are any team who like to see other players hospitalised. There may be a very small number of players who might......I don't think Hore is one of them.

If Hore gets a couple of weeks suspension then I think there will be cause for outrage but some of the Welsh supporters want the police to get involved and charge Hore with assault.

 

[Bullrush]

So we agree then. In the wrong place. Like the Welsh guy.

Your friend thinks it's ok for an all black to injure another country's player, but both you and your friend think it's not ok for another country's player to injure an all black.

You appear to have a conscience (at least as far as fellow new zealanders are concerned).

Your friend appears to be Richard Loe.

Both acts were despicable and unnecessary.

As were Higginbotham's recent knee and headbutt on Richie, QC (Quade Cooper)'s knee on Richie and his celebratory shove in the head in Hong Kong.

Have any Kiwis actually said that Hore's act was OK? I don't think so.....it's almost like some people want AB fans to write letters of apology for our team or disown them or something.

 

[gel]

As were Higginbotham's recent knee and headbutt on Richie, QC (Quade Cooper)'s knee on Richie and his celebratory shove in the head in Hong Kong.

Have any Kiwis actually said that Hore's act was OK? I don't think so...it's almost like some people want AB fans to write letters of apology for our team or disown them or something.

Have any kiwis said its ok? hawktrains friend sort indicates that it is, thus why i asked a clarifying question to determine if this were true. and No, I don't want you to disown anything. How the hell did you get to that point?????.

Was interested to know what hawk trains friend thought about a similar incident, given his friend was somewhat justifying the actions of hore.

Re you first post above.

If there was no intent of hore to king hit, then why did he swing his arm in the direction of his face from behind?

Those would generally be considered actions consistent with wanting to king hit.

 

[fatprop]

So we agree then. In the wrong place. Like the Welsh guy.

Your friend thinks it's ok for an all black to injure another country's player, but both you and your friend think it's not ok for another country's player to injure an all black.

You appear to have a conscience (at least as far as fellow new zealanders are concerned).

Your friend appears to be Richard Loe.

Both acts were despicable and unnecessary.

I don't think Hore had any intention to injure the guy, his goal was to get him out of the way.

His actions to get him out of the way were clearly wrong but you don't see Hore running around blindsiding units throughout the years.

As you don't see any Kiwi players going going out to injure, as you don't pretty well any other do that.

Sure we can all remember isolated incidents on both sides, but they are isolated and these days, far better manged by the judiciary.

Face it a lot of the incidents players get weeks for these days would have been ignored 20 years.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I suspect that what we have here is unintended consequences.

Gimli probably didn't think that his actions would hospitilise a fellow professional athlete. He was probably just trying to send a message that he was frustrated with being shepherded in the kick chase. To me the intent was clearly to punish him in such a manner that he wouldn't do it again in the match. The unintended consequences are that an athlete was carried off and hospitalised, and another athlete will be facing a very long period on suspension, possibly even terminating that athletes international career on a bitter note.

Like our own QC (Quade Cooper), I am sure that the firestorm he created with the Tweets and "Yellow Jumper", "Its not about money", "if selected, I wouldn't play" quotes was not his initial intention, but look at the consequences.

 

[crangs81]

He deserves a lengthy ban for that. No doubt about it. Do i believe he deliberately tried to knock him out? Not really but only he knows what he was trying to do. Looks like he tried to take Davies into the ruck with him and just plain ****ed it up. Would've been interesting to see how much interest the incident would've gathered if Davies hadn't been KO'd

 

[BPC]

I suspect that what we have here is unintended consequences.

On one level I get what you're saying, and the footage showing the shepherd is very clear, but I have real difficultly accepting the injury was an 'unintended consequence' when Hore swung at the guy's head. If you attack the head then you have to know and accept the potential consequences.

Hore would have been better perhaps to shove him in the back to clear him out of the way. There were better ways for Hore to send a message.

 

[Torn Hammy]

If Hore gets a couple of weeks suspension then I think there will be cause for outrage but some of the Welsh supporters want the police to get involved and charge Hore with assault.

Bullrush, I can't think of any other workplace where the police, lawyers and judges wouldn't be involved.

The guy was king hit from behind, hospitalised. is still feeling the effects and is unable to play this week-end.