How are World Cups won?

[waratahjesus]

Spikhaza - do you honestly think Australia play more attacking rugby than new Zealand?
NZ kick our ass at every aspect currently, aus would need a massive effort to beat em in anything other than a dead rubber

 

[Bullrush]

Teams Playing Attacking Rugby (in order from most to least)

Australia (yes we have the most attacking flyhalf, attacking gameplan)
New Zealand
England (slightly less of late)
Ireland (more of late)

Teams that are playing Defensive (kicking)Rugby:

Scotland, as much as i hate to say it
South Africa?

South Africa's position is questionable. With Peter the clown they want to play defensive, but it seems halfway through the game when they've been ****ed they change and play they're own little sortie.. A mix of individuals i guess.

Why does the most attacking fly-half = the most attacking team.

People seem to forget that forwards are pretty good on attack as well (ask Jason Rutledge) and that's where the Wallabies will struggle most. Hard to attack when your forwards are getting smashed all day.

 

[I like to watch]

Spikhaza,
2 things
1)QC (Quade Cooper) will not start in the RWC, so do we still have the most attacking team?
2) It is human nature to tighten up when the stakes are high. I think there will be high scoring in pool games & even in the prelim finals. But in the FINAL it will revert to 10 man Rugby.

 

[Groucho]

Why does the most attacking fly-half = the most attacking team.

People seem to forget that forwards are pretty good on attack as well (ask Jason Rutledge) and that's where the Wallabies will struggle most. Hard to attack when your forwards are getting smashed all day.

New Zealand won't smash our first choice pack. We are susceptible to injuries though.

 

[Bowside]

There has been 6 world cups. The rules this time around are different to what they have been in the past. We need to play our natural game, it has its own strengths and as long as we execute the game plan we can win the world cup.

 

[I like to watch]

Obviously, iltw, because the head coach has overall reponsibility. I'm presuming that he is satisfied with the type of conditioing that is being done. If he were not then presumably he would have had it changed.

So Harding is doing a good job, but Deans isn't cos he hasn't replaced Harding.
Is that right?

 

[daz]

Blah, blah blah.

We all have our opinions and the Deans discussions have been done pretty much to death. This thread will finish on the same note the other 600 Deans threads have finished, so why not just skip ahead:

We will know who is right at the end of RWC2011.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Why does the most attacking fly-half = the most attacking team.

People seem to forget that forwards are pretty good on attack as well (ask Jason Rutledge) and that's where the Wallabies will struggle most. Hard to attack when your forwards are getting smashed all day.

Because your 5/8 is the player who orchestrates the attack in the main. I would regard Carter (and Cooper obviously) as an attacking 10, as he runs and passes a lot more than he kicks. His own ability to run from first receiver is a very underrated part of his game.

Whether or not the forwards are getting smashed is another matter entirely.

 

[Brumbieman]

You win world cups on the back of your forward pack. Simple. If we have luck with injuries, and all the important players aren't dead by then, we're a chance.

The draw says that logically, we will have to beat England, and then NZ. The pool stages and quarter final shouldn't be a problem. IMO, the big one is England. Those pommy bastards know hwo to grind a win out of us in the world cup. I'm not worried about NZ, England are the danger team.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I was saying to an English mate at the Force game last night that England is the team who worry me most. It ought to be the All Blacks, but the Poms have the kind of game plan that always makes it difficult for us, as recent history would suggest. Were we to face them in a semi final, we'd have to be 100% in the set piece and at the breakdown or we are sunk.

 

[Brumbieman]

If NZ make the final, i'd put money on them choking in the face of a fired up Wallaby outfit.

England are a different story, and mentally have the wood on us after our last two pathetic losses.

 

[PaarlBok]

This is the year that the status quo for how world cups are won changes. I don't know what it will be yet, but the law interpretations have changed the game. No longer will say, england be penalized for not releasing the ball right in front of the posts when they're center slips over. Instead they will keep the ball or earn a penalty for the tackler not rolling away / releasing the tackler. Providing this is true, Defensive orientated world cups are about to become a thing of the past. As far as I can see, a radical change has happened over the past year. Up and unders are still relevant yes, but significantly less so - and this is the goal, to make rugby a balance. Each defensive law (penalty) is balanced with an attacking one. Outweighed in some instances by an attacking one yes. Which means only one thing. Teams are going to score tries, or teams are going to get men sent to the bin.

I stop reading right there. Go have a look at the log of the lower level of S15 rugby. Which team do you see right there at the top? Think there was a thread about the way they play. If you think test rugby or a world cup final aint a tighter affair I'll advise you to watch league rugby. They can try and chop and change the rules as much as they want, it all starts with first phase lineouts and scrums. Thats where your suppose to dominate before the Coopers and Carters can play their flashy stuff.

 

[Godfrey]

09's pack with 10's backs - with slight changes to each. We'll be fine.

World Cups have been won by teams playing to their strengths. Sure, our current style may not have won a cup yet (out of the massive sample of 6) but I don't think we'll get anywhere playing south africa's game of 07 or England's of 03. Remember, they weren't just playing these styles in the WC final - it was was building a game plan to the laws and cattle 2 years out.

 

[Bruce Ross]

So Harding is doing a good job, but Deans isn't cos he hasn't replaced Harding.
Is that right?

Is there anyone else who thinks that what I was saying is that "Harding is doing a good job"? If so, I really do have a problem communicating my thoughts.

 

[Slim 293]

This is the year that the status quo for how world cups are won changes. I don't know what it will be yet, but the law interpretations have changed the game. No longer will say, england be penalized for not releasing the ball right in front of the posts when they're center slips over. Instead they will keep the ball or earn a penalty for the tackler not rolling away / releasing the tackler. Providing this is true, Defensive orientated world cups are about to become a thing of the past. As far as I can see, a radical change has happened over the past year. Up and unders are still relevant yes, but significantly less so - and this is the goal, to make rugby a balance. Each defensive law (penalty) is balanced with an attacking one. Outweighed in some instances by an attacking one yes. Which means only one thing. Teams are going to score tries, or teams are going to get men sent to the bin.

Teams Playing Attacking Rugby (in order from most to least)

Australia (yes we have the most attacking flyhalf, attacking gameplan)
New Zealand
England (slightly less of late)
Ireland (more of late)

Teams that are playing Defensive (kicking)Rugby:

Scotland, as much as i hate to say it
South Africa?

South Africa's position is questionable. With Peter the clown they want to play defensive, but it seems halfway through the game when they've been ****ed they change and play they're own little sortie.. A mix of individuals i guess.

France are so ****ing unpredictable they're nowhere.
Marc Leivremont is a nutter, blames everyone for a loss ect. He thought that defensive rugby involving big slow defensive hulking centres / flyhalfs was the way to go about winning a world cup, as he showed when he put that team out against Aus. That team was outclassed in every way possible except the scrum in the first half. Every other way was just rolled. This is what is going to happen come world cup time. With consistant pressure, teams WILL score tries. If teams play defensive against AUS and NZ, so be it. But it will be bloemfontine at 25'. And in a world cup q/s/f, they won't be allowed back into the match, because the defense in world cups is too good for a defensive side to score tries.

And that is the IRB's objectives.

So here's how it's going to roll this world cup:

pool:
A: New Zealand, France
B: England, Argentina
C: Australia, Ireland
D: South Africa, Wales



QF1 Aus V Wales, Aus by 12
QF2 France V England England by 10
QF3 South Africa V Ireland republic by 1
QF4 All Blacks V Argentina All blacks by 20

SF1 Australia V England
SF2 All Blacks V Africa

F = Running Rugby

On that prediction only one team that has been guilty of not playing running rugby will make it past the QF's. AND that means that ladies and gentlemen, they're will be running rugby, all the way up till the finals. Even then Africa looks shaky. Point is, in the past there has been one team playing running rugby - all blacks. This year there is 3 teams playing a definitive "running" style - AB's england and Aus. Any other team can play this kind of style at times. There will be running rugby in the finals of the rugby world cup.

It needs to be pointed out that the referees are not officiating like they did last year...

They're not being as hard on the defenders and many games recently have seen plenty of tacklers not releasing or rolling away, and lying all over the ruck...

 

[spikhaza]

Spikhaza,
2 things
1)QC (Quade Cooper) will not start in the RWC, so do we still have the most attacking team?
2) It is human nature to tighten up when the stakes are high. I think there will be high scoring in pool games & even in the prelim finals. But in the FINAL it will revert to 10 man Rugby.

We can debate all we like about quade, but as far as I can see Robbie isn't dropping him, because where totally directionless in attack without him, and Robbie wants to play attacking rugby. The whole idea of the stakes being high on attack is now redundant, the new laws have made it safe to attack.

I stop reading right there. Go have a look at the log of the lower level of S15 rugby. Which team do you see right there at the top? Think there was a thread about the way they play. If you think test rugby or a world cup final aint a tighter affair I'll advise you to watch league rugby. They can try and chop and change the rules as much as they want, it all starts with first phase lineouts and scrums. Thats where your suppose to dominate before the Coopers and Carters can play their flashy stuff.

True but only a couple of South African teams run the ball, stormers are just the best defensively of them all, and they have yet to face the mighty attacking crusaders and perhaps the Reds. We will see who wins the super 15 at the end of this season, and make a judgement from there.

 

[Godfrey]

The thing I don't understand is that obviously we need to add/strengthen a few strings in our bow (defence, forward play) but people are talking like we need to remove our best asset, i.e our attack. I'm glad some people here aren't coaches because tactics would never change and we'd always be referring back to some arbitrary point in the past as an inarguable arbiter of the future.

 

[WB3]

Is there anyone else who thinks that what I was saying is that "Harding is doing a good job"? If so, I really do have a problem communicating my thoughts.

No, we get you mate. Sydney Uni needs to adopt the ARU strength and conditioning programs and so on

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

We can debate all we like about quade, but as far as I can see Robbie isn't dropping him, because where totally directionless in attack without him, and Robbie wants to play attacking rugby. The whole idea of the stakes being high on attack is now redundant, the new laws have made it safe to attack.


True but only a couple of South African teams run the ball, stormers are just the best defensively of them all, and they have yet to face the mighty attacking crusaders and perhaps the Reds. We will see who wins the super 15 at the end of this season, and make a judgement from there.

Don't know, on current form I'd say JOC (James O'Connor) would be a mighty handy 5/8 come RWC time. In fact, I'd like to see the roles split between the two against the lesser teams.

 

[waratahjesus]

Aus had the best attacking 5/8 in the world in 1999, we won the world cup on defense