• Welcome to the Green and Gold Rugby forums. As you can see we've upgraded the forums to new software. Your old logon details should work, just click the 'Login' button in the top right.

How Did That All Blacks 1st Phase Move Work?

Status
Not open for further replies.

AngrySeahorse

Peter Sullivan (51)
Nice to see this given extra attention Scott. I'm going to try & convince my coach to get my own teams' back line to try it. Great move.
 
W

Waylon

Guest
Outcoached again

Once upon a time, the wallabies were the envy of the rugby world for such carefully constructed attacking moves

The wallaby backs were renouned for attacking flare and daring

Now they play like they just met each other even though they are full time professionals. Too many weights and not enough speed work bro

It's Campo time

It's Link time
 

Scoey

Tony Shaw (54)
Once upon a time, the wallabies were the envy of the rugby world for such carefully constructed attacking moves

The wallaby backs were renouned for attacking flare and daring

Now they play like they just met each other even though they are full time professionals. Too many weights and not enough speed work bro

Back in the day, they played as a team, they actually had 'backline' moves. There is one word I hold almost wholly fucking responsible for the demise of the great attacking Wallaby backline and that word is "x-factor".

What the hell is it anyway? We seem to want these supposed genius individuals in every position. A pre-requisite is that they must have x-factor. Like it's all you need. You have enough x-factor and you'll win. Why didn't we win? Mustn't have enough x-factor! Drives me insane!

We need quality rugby players that are specialists in their position. They know it inside and out. I don't think you would describe any one of the AB backs as having this x-factor. They are simply brilliant at their position.

DC - best flyhalf in the world
SBW - strong running inside centre with a great offload and good lines.
Dagg - excellent counter attacking fullback. Solid under the high ball and great clearing kick.
Jane & Gear - Brilliant wingers
etc

When you describe them you use their position. And in that move, every player played their part. It was a true backline move. It did not rely on the individual brilliance of one or two x-factor players.

Prime example is JOC (James O'Connor). Supposedly tons of x-factor so we must have him in our backline. But what position does he play? 10? 11? 12? 14? 15?

X-factor is a myth. Rugby's a team sport - we need to stop relying on individuals and start developing a backline. Only then can we start working on backline moves like the one we see here.

Sorry - end rant. ;)
 

Duncher

Herbert Moran (7)
It is so true!!!! We do need to get back to what it is about Australian rugby that set us apart from the rest of the world.

We've never had the forwards of the Meat Eaters or Poms, never had the unpredictability of the Frogs, nor the speed and accuracy of the Darkness, but we've always (well in the last 25 years at least) held our own. I remember when in pre match press conferences opposition coaches would talk about how difficult it is to play the Wallabies because we were a smart team and played tactically good rugby...

Nekminute a dingo stole our ethos...
 

Scarfman

Knitter of the Scarf
Good analysis Scott, but you would also say, I'm sure, that it's pretty basic stuff. Maybe a little more complex than the we moves we pulled in Country Central West, but not much.

MOst complex move by the Wallabies over the last couple of years? Barnes inside ball to Ioane? Cooper double-skip pass to Ioane? I reckon Halangahu's classic show'n'go is starting to look good at a Wallaby level. OUr abandonment of the core of Aussie rugby is beyond comprehension.
 

Scott Allen

Trevor Allan (34)
Good analysis Scott, but you would also say, I'm sure, that it's pretty basic stuff. Maybe a little more complex than the we moves we pulled in Country Central West, but not much.

MOst complex move by the Wallabies over the last couple of years? Barnes inside ball to Ioane? Cooper double-skip pass to Ioane? I reckon Halangahu's classic show'n'go is starting to look good at a Wallaby level. OUr abandonment of the core of Aussie rugby is beyond comprehension.

No doubt Scarfman. Wallabies did run three first phase moves last Saturday, well 2 1/2.

The first one in the 5th minute was the 1/2 because although it came off a lineout, the first phase was a super slow ball so Barnes could get a forward screen set up. Then pass behind the static screen, straight hands from one touch line to the other - AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) bundled into touch - no change of lines, a couple of forwards as sort of decoys. Inspiring.

Second in 74th minute off a scrum - the lite version of NZ's second try - where NZ used #12 and #13 as decoys running back in towards defence, then played out the back to #15, Wallabies only used #12 as a decoy - didn't have any impact - easily shut down.

Third in 78th minute off a lineout - played out the back and space was created out wide for Beale and Ioane but Beale was too deep so didn't make it up to the line to receive the pass. If he had, he and Ioane were in a 2v1 situation with Wallabies only down by 5 at the time.

Why wait till six minutes to go to try first real move? How basic were they? Why couldn't players get to their required position on field?

Answers to those questions probably say it all - because this type of play is not a focus. But it should be!
 
L

Linebacker_41

Guest
Great analysis!

This clearly shows the defensive patterns of the Wallabies are behind that of many of the Super Rugby franchises.

The key to the defence is width. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has to hold the man to the outside this includes Dagg if he comes wider equally Fainga'a has to keep the 2nd most man marked to ensure no overlap occurs.

This forces Genia and his loosies to pick up the inside channel. It also makes it easier for these guys to get the unmarked or "extra players" on this side. It is much easier to sprint 10m to make a tackle on an inside back still winding up (including SBW) compared to trying to reach Dagg on the outside.

This video has also exposed a weakness on the inside defence.

Yes Genia should have been targetting the inside shoulder of Carter and the switch under.

Was it Dennis at 6?? his line was too aggressive in this overlap situation particularly as he doesnt have the blistering speed to make that aggressive line.

Higgers was taking the ideal No6 line and showed his lack of international experience at 8.

Still with both of the lines that the loosies took an outside and holding width defence as the Stormers have been running for the past few years would have been better placed to account for this very clever move.


This looks to me as an Aussie McLean special.
 

BarneySF

Bob Loudon (25)
I've been saying for years and asking the very question of why don't the Wobs do more set piece/first phase moves? What ever happened to the cut and looping and switching etc? Anything to create space and the extra man? Seriously, even since the days of Eddie Jones, I can't recall much other than crash ball at 12 and then hopefully that gets us some momentum for someone to make a break.

The last move of substance that I can remember was Bled Cup back in 1998 I think it was (away game) and the entire Wobs backline lined up behind a scrum in NZ 22. With everyone fanning off in different directions, I think it went to Jason Little or at least he ended up scoring but totally had the ABs in disarray and lokked nigh on impossible to defend. I also think it was one of those moves that a team pulls off when it had some confidence, which was more often than not back in those days. Does any one remember that try? I've been looking for footage of it for ages and am going on my dim memory only.
 

Scoey

Tony Shaw (54)
I would love to see footage of that!!! We couldn't do anything like that these days though. If the oppo got a tight head (reasonable chance at any given scrum) we'd be screwed.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Great set up, so many options.

Right and left, short to the "12s" , wider inside to the wingers or a dummy from the 10.
 
J

Jiggles

Guest
Good Analysis Scott. For me though, Beale should've made that tackle. On the front on angle Dagg was about half a foots width from the touch line. Beale should just have committed up high and put him into touch.
 

Grandmaster Flash

Johnnie Wallace (23)
Last decent backline moves I can remember the Wobs played that resulted in tries were Mitchell's try in HK and Beale's try in SA in 2010. Was there one last year?
 

MrTimms

Ken Catchpole (46)
Staff member
There would've been plenty.

You would think so, but no. I remember debating with Scott A a move in one of the RWC games, He won (not surprisingly) but it was our first worked move of the tournament.

Sadly, it wasn't an early game.
 

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
What are we counting here, tries off set pieces? Number of passes leading up to a try? Quality of opposition? Pre-determined move?
 

Scott Allen

Trevor Allan (34)
In 2010 after the HK Bledisloe there was 1 in the 4 games played in Europe. (v France)

In 2011 there were only 3 in 13 tests. 1 v Italy at RWC, 1 v USA at RWC and 1 v Wales at RWC.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top