Ideas for NRC 2015

[Omar Comin']

That's the part I disagree with. How's that festival of rugby 7s going down the road?

From what I have seen people don't want to go to all day events. Look at how T20 has overtaken ODI cricket. If the event is too long it will more likely scare away more potential attendees than it will attract based on the wane in popularity of whole day sorting events. They seem to work for 1 offs like F1 but people just don't seem interested in whole day events for sports they regularly go see.

People who want to lap up all the rugby they can get would already be there. Now it's a great thing to do for the consumer base, but I'd be skeptical about it helping expand it.

The 7's in the Gold Coast has been a disaster for many reasons. The main being that the Gold Coast is the worst sporting city in Australia and the stadium is in an awful location. The 7's in London this year sold out Twickenham on the Saturday because it was a big party with lots of beer, plenty of stuff for kids and everyone was dressed up as monsters. Plus obviously good rugby on the field. With the same marketing I'd bet you'd fill out the SFS in Sydney after 2 or 3 years for the 7's.

Double headers have worked for rugby league in the past, both in Australia and the UK. Most recently with their 4 nations double header in Brisbane. There are plenty of examples of popular 4 - 5 hour sporting events and these double headers would be one off in the season.

Here in the UK the Aviva Premiership starts with a double header at Twickenham between 4 London clubs. It's attracted over 60k the last 3 years. This is in a league that averages crowds of around 12k.

While not for a double header, another example is Saracens and their annual match at Wembley. This is a team that gets less than 10k people to their regular home games. Yet last year their game at Wembley had over 80k turn up to it! It's just another regular season match but they promote the hell out of it for months as a special event. And people want to go and be part of the occasion.

Btw, I don't think you'd be getting a lot of non-rugby fans along to this. But I think it might encourage more rugby fans that haven't yet been to see the NRC to go and watch it. And in Sydney especially you'd have 4 sets of fans all in the one location. It would be a special event in the NRC season, not at all like a regular game if done properly.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

At this stage of the game things like double headers should not be focus of ARU for NRC as can see pro's and con's but not convinced worthy of investment in time and effort compared to other efforts they could focus on to build awareness and profile for NRC and attract bums on seats and eyeballs re: ratings. Not saying doesn't have some merit but other initiatives at this stage I would have thought more worthy of focus to build awareness and interest.

I can see some implementation concerns for marquee concept but idea of bringing high profile personality that would bring profile, awareness and in particular greater media coverage and general public interest in the game would be huge....so don't limit thinking to just marquee but maybe something else like allow a johnny wilkinson to fly out and play 2-3 games like Balmain rugby did getting Chabal out for a couple of games.

I agree need some thought though as to how to implement as more around trying to raise profile and interest from personality involved then what they would actually do on the field - more what benefit would bring off the field....work with concept of doing things to raise the profile, media covereage , general public, rugby community awareness and interest in the NRC...

Focus on getting people to games and watching on fox key so marketing support here to do this pivotal.....

Need some feedback on product itself but feedback generally seems positive from those who went to game and post on here....so more about building greater awareness and interest for those who did not go/watch and trial the product...

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I also think the law variations were innovative to create a different type of product..

As similar to what you have seen in cricket to grow the market you need to create different types of product to appeal to different market segments...

Sure the die hard rugby fans will go to shute shield games etc and not want to see any change...but guess what lot of people been lost to rugby as feel it is just a penalty kick fest so NRC opportunity to win these people back to this product.

The variations came about from rugby fan feedback and this is fantastic and highly innovative....as if rugby is to grow and protect its existing market from the A-League, AFL, and NRL onslaught it can't stay static....

THe only way there should be any changes to the new laws introduced is based on fan survey feedback...and not seen any evidence there is widespread backlash from those who have gone to games / watched it so can't see any reason to change given laws were based on survey feeedback from fans as to what they wanted..

The rugby diehards who want to keep 3 points for a penalty are in a minority in terms of potential rugby fans who want to see more attacking rugby and less of a kicking game dominated by penalties...

Evolve or die is the catch cry and will give the ARU credit for being innovative with NRC law variations introduced.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Omar double headers in league is with more established product...

Look at double headers when more established but simply not at stage of evolution where should be a priority.

Having as curtain raisers to wallaby games great idea as get TV coverage......but otherwise not at right stage to have NRC double headers as more about convincing people worth just going to watch one NRC game let alone two (ie about awareness and getting people interest in just the game itself, not about so much having twice as much product as largely about just convincing them worth attending at all a game in terms of quality of the product).

 

[Omar Comin']

At this stage of the game things like double headers should not be focus of ARU for NRC as can see pro's and con's but not convinced worthy of investment in time and effort compared to other efforts they could focus on to build awareness and profile for NRC and attract bums on seats and eyeballs re: ratings. Not saying doesn't have some merit but other initiatives at this stage I would have thought more worthy of focus to build awareness and interest.

The way I see it is that the NRC product is great but it needs to get a lot more people to give it a go first and foremost.

The best way I can think of that happening is to create a special event or events around the NRC. Occasions that people will want to attend because they know there'll be a good crowd and they'll get value for money. You have to do something a little different to get a big mass of people to give it a go.

Best I can think of is the 2 double headers to open the season with months of promotion leading up to it from the clubs, Super rugby teams and the ARU. If you get a couple of good crowds, and the product is good on the field, then you'll probably get a % of people come back for more as well as follow the competition on fox etc.

 

[TOCC]

I wish that the points system had not been changed.

More people than not would challenge my view and point out the number of tries scored—as if that answered anything.

If you want more tries scored as the main thing you want, fine—the scoring system used in the NRC this year will produce more of them. And if you want more tries for the reason that you want to bring more punters to the ground or to watch it on TV, again, fine: I understand the logic.

It depends what you want the NRC for. When people start projects they don't always list their priorities, or not correctly: they sometimes think of a dozen of them before they start something, but don't appreciate that some purpose they are looking at, conflicts with another purpose.

If you don't have the punters at the ground and people watching on the tv then there is no financial grounds for this competition to exist, If these point scoring amendments allow the competition to be financially sustainable through increased entertainment then thats what needs to happen.

Quite simply, i don't believe you can have it both ways, there just isn't enough interest in rugby union to justify a third tier unless some changes are made to make it appeal to a wider market.

They didn't need changes in the scoring system in the ITM Cup or Currie Cup this year to produce some cracking games and compelling viewing, especially in the finals.

Is that really relative though, NZ Super Rugby derbies are typically far more entertaining then any of the Australian derbies anyway.

If one of the principal aims of the NRC is to develop inexperienced players for Super Rugby and to assess them for being signed up, or not; or to assess Super Rugby fringe players to be in matchday teams, you should use the points system used in Super Rugby.

Then the whole process you use to get points in Super Rugby will be used in the NRC and the players judged on their performance in that environment, not an artificial one.

We've had a look at the NRC scoring system in operation—fair enough, it was worth a try.

Let's see it with the normal scoring system next year and compare the outcome with this year, but first decide on what is the main thing we are looking for.

Firstly, apart from the reduction in penalty kicks, what artificial measure about the game is ill-preparing them for Super Rugby?
and secondly, why risk changing it when the product of the change has achieved the desired outcome?

 

[Train Without a Station]

Omar, any comparisons to the UK are pointless. We are not in the UK. These are not UK punters. England can sell out Twickenham for tests, we no longer sell out a Beldisloe. In addition, the Aviva Premiership is a much stronger competition with a supporter base closer to the NRL (actually isn't it bigger?), than to the NRC. Still, NRL double headers are extremely rare. Was it Easter or some other sort of public holiday weekend they last did it for? NRL teams get an average of 10,000+ to games so it's not unreasonable to expected 20,000+ to a double header. That's not what makes it more, the match up is important. If it's 4 teams from nearby locations with an actual rivalry it may be more, but that's only if the individual games would draw more themselves.

100,000 people turn up to watch a game of football between two amatuer college teams drawn out to 4 quarters over 4 hours in the USA, doesn't mean we'll get 100,000 people to watch UQ vs Usyd with all the Super Rugby players removed.

The Australian Sporting appetite is much weaker. You seem to have this logic of "2 + 2 = 8" but it's just not going to be the case. Especially not in the very near future.

I think the idea of double headers has merit. But unless the reasons are to save ground hire and to get additional games broadcast, I think it's an exercise in futility.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

If you don't have the punters at the ground and people watching on the tv then there is no financial grounds for this competition to exist, If these point scoring amendments allow the competition to be financially sustainable through increased entertainment then thats what needs to happen.

Quite simply, i don't believe you can have it both ways, there just isn't enough interest in rugby union to justify a third tier unless some changes are made to make it appeal to a wider market.


Is that really relative though, NZ Super Rugby derbies are typically far more entertaining then any of the Australian derbies anyway.


Firstly, apart from the reduction in penalty kicks, what artificial measure about the game is ill-preparing them for Super Rugby?
and secondly, why risk changing it when the product of the change has achieved the desired outcome?

Thanks TOCC you articulated much better than me the benefits of the point scoring changes....

Great post

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I think we can do better. Most of the big jersey makers actually have software to help you design jersey, shorts and socks.

It took me 10 minutes to create 3 different designs using NHR colours on this site. Let's use our imaginations.
http://www.cccteam.com/design-your-own/

To see debate about team strips is always good in my books in any case as shows an engaged fan....

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Omar don't want to discount your main point around creating a social event around NRC but that is not more games in one event as more bringing other things to add to appeal to the "game" (note not games).

Hence things like bands....and the orange food festival they had for game in orange is right idea (what a brilliant idea as can see this as annual event to build greater community involvement around).......

as is curtain raisers for wallaby games (as linked with existing event already on but different higher branded product that has more eyeballs / fans can tap into).

This actually is key for marketing to look at what other triggers can bring to make it a more social event...the kids free helps with that as creates a family friendly product - I have taken my kids to two games and leichardt oval and hill perfect for this and kids love it.

So idea right - but maybe look at NRC double headers as much latter thing to focus on when product demand is already there...not focus at this stage of evolution...

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Key is to also tap into community - that is why Orange match and "event" was fantastic as did this well....opportunity to attract people who would not normally be interested in going to rugby game....

 

[Braveheart81]

If you don't have the punters at the ground and people watching on the tv then there is no financial grounds for this competition to exist, If these point scoring amendments allow the competition to be financially sustainable through increased entertainment then thats what needs to happen.

Quite simply, i don't believe you can have it both ways, there just isn't enough interest in rugby union to justify a third tier unless some changes are made to make it appeal to a wider market.

It would be interesting to know where the interest in the NRC comes from.

There are certainly rugby fans dragging non rugby fans to some of the NRC games because the tickets are cheap and they're trying to spread the word if you will, but I'd love to know the percentages of what other rugby attendees are going to.

I tend to think NRC attendees are a small subset of Super Rugby and club rugby fans and regardless of law changes, there probably aren't many people who never go to rugby games starting to attend based on this tournament.

The TV audiences struggled. I find it hard to believe that past about round 1 or so, any rugby fans with Foxtel didn't know the NRC existed and when it was broadcast. I just think it was a reflection of how much interest there is unfortunately.

Clearly a big increase in marketing will draw more punters to the games and to the TV audience but it's also expensive. Social media engagement needs to improve because it's the cheapest and most effective way to reach the audience. Trying to market to non rugby fans seems an exercise in futility.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

It would be interesting to know where the interest in the NRC comes from.

There are certainly rugby fans dragging non rugby fans to some of the NRC games because the tickets are cheap and they're trying to spread the word if you will, but I'd love to know the percentages of what other rugby attendees are going to.

I tend to think NRC attendees are a small subset of Super Rugby and club rugby fans and regardless of law changes, there probably aren't many people who never go to rugby games starting to attend based on this tournament.

The TV audiences struggled. I find it hard to believe that past about round 1 or so, any rugby fans with Foxtel didn't know the NRC existed and when it was broadcast. I just think it was a reflection of how much interest there is unfortunately.

Clearly a big increase in marketing will draw more punters to the games and to the TV audience but it's also expensive. Social media engagement needs to improve because it's the cheapest and most effective way to reach the audience. Trying to market to non rugby fans seems an exercise in futility.

Agree Braveheart that primary focus is on attracting existing rugby fans but this includes motivating rugby fans who already attend club, super or wallaby games to be interested in attending a NRC game with their busy competing demands for their time. Hence creating more appeal to motivate (such as social events etc) can do this and if means get more fans who are on the fringes who might watch odd game but never go to live game more the better...

Pretty much same concept as what Cricket tried to achieve with Big Bash....

 

[Train Without a Station]

Fresh off the front page regarding the Wellington 7's.

“In our business, and it’s a bums on seats business – it’s entertainment, if you have to resort to discounting, it literally means all your promotion, your marketing, your advertising – all of those aspects have actually failed to deliver”. With ticket sales on the decline and a recent canceling by headline act KC and the Sunshine band, things aren’t looking so sunny for the Wellington 7s tournament. Not that sunlight exists in Wellington anyway. Tickets will now be discounted due to the poor sales so far. After the resignation of general manager Marty Donoghue last month local concert promoter Phil Sprey had this much to say in regards to the tournament,

“In our business, and it’s a bums on seats business – it’s entertainment, if you have to resort to discounting, it literally means all your promotion, your marketing, your advertising – all of those aspects have actually failed to deliver”.

To say the Gold Coast 7's isn't a success due to the Gold Coast is foolish. Whole day rugby events are less successful in NZ also.

 

[Jagman]

I think it a double header for a Perth test match for instance would be good as Foxtel were not willing to televise a game from Perth due to travel cost. But if they're already there it could be the one opportunity for Perth.

However this is all a moot point for next year, 2015-the title of the thread- because as I pointed out before there won't be any Tests in Australia during the NRC.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Double Header's for tests are great providing the home teams are compensated for the revenue lost (which would not be significant. Gets the game on the box, saves on ground hire and potentially gets a few test goers to come early to have a look.

 

[Omar Comin']

Fresh off the front page regarding the Wellington 7's.

To say the Gold Coast 7's isn't a success due to the Gold Coast is foolish. Whole day rugby events are less successful in NZ also.

Last year was the first year Wellington failed to sell out in ages. Previously it sold out in minutes. I'm not sure what's gone wrong, but the NRL Auckland 9's has had an effect as it's new while perhaps the Wellington 7's has got a bit stale.

The Gold Coast was a terrible location for the 7's. All the best supported events are in international hub cities with a large, multicultural population.

There's plenty of all day events that do just in fine in Australia. Test cricket, formula 1, several large horse racing events, Australian Open tennis, many music festivals. You might be right about most of these being once in a year events, but so is the 7's and so would be a double header.

And as I said to you, the Aviva Premiership averages crowds of around 12k or just over. The double header that opens their season has had crowds of over 60k for the past 3 years. For such events, if they are made into an occasion the whole should be greater than the sum of its parts.

Even if you got 10k to a Sydney NRC double header it would be a great success. Even 5k would be alright based on this year's crowds! But what sort of ambition is that? It's fine to have doubts about it, but I don't think you've given a good reason not to try it. If everyone in Australian rugby got behind new initiatives the code would be in a much better place than it is.

 

[Braveheart81]

However this is all a moot point for next year, 2015-the title of the thread- because as I pointed out before there won't be any Tests in Australia during the NRC.

Doesn't everything including club rugby start earlier in RWC years?

The double header idea is a good one for reducing broadcast costs to try and get more games on TV but I question how many extra fans it brings in.

I don't think price is stopping people from attending NRC games. 2 games for the price of 1 is unlikely to attract many people.

For people with young kids, I can't imagine many would stay for both games of a double header. One football game is more than enough to test attention spans.

 

[Omar Comin']

Doesn't everything including club rugby start earlier in RWC years?

The double header idea is a good one for reducing broadcast costs to try and get more games on TV but I question how many extra fans it brings in.

I don't think price is stopping people from attending NRC games. 2 games for the price of 1 is unlikely to attract many people.

For people with young kids, I can't imagine many would stay for both games of a double header. One football game is more than enough to test attention spans.

This is why you would have other things around the venue! A kids zone being one of the most important things. A lot of people wouldn't watch all 160 minutes of rugby and you'd certainly have a bit of a gap between the games.

 

[Jagman]

Doesn't everything including club rugby start earlier in RWC years?

The double header idea is a good one for reducing broadcast costs to try and get more games on TV but I question how many extra fans it brings in.

I don't think price is stopping people from attending NRC games. 2 games for the price of 1 is unlikely to attract many people.

For people with young kids, I can't imagine many would stay for both games of a double header. One football game is more than enough to test attention spans.

I thought it was hard for clubs to change schedule because of the cricket season and booking ovals ets.

In previoius years the Shute shield final has been on the weekend of the Argentina test this year it was on Bledisloe 1 which means it was moved 4 weeks earlier. The NRC started on thursday 21 Aug. Next year the last Test in Aus is 8th Aug. This means club rugby would have to move another 2 weeks earlier after already moving 4 weeks.