Dismal Pillock
Simon Poidevin (60)
It is quite remarkable how you managed to fit so much wrong into just 1 post.
It's like it was generated by an algorithm of mentalness or something
WFT ≡ FFS = #LOL∞
Ireland NZ Tour 2022
- Thread starter waiopehu oldboy
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It's like it was generated by an algorithm of mentalness or something
WFT ≡ FFS = #LOL∞
Dan54
Tim Horan (67)
Yep, seems some actually forget the last bit mate, 'Unless they come up against a better side', which I think was case. I not saying I wouldn't prefer someone else coaching the ABs, just there seems to be an awful lot of not giving credit to how bloody good this Irish team is. I actually think man for man they had our measure in most positions, especially in tight forwards!
I would add, I really think France and Ireland are seemingly 2 best teams in world at moment, and rest are reasonably average, a lot ie England , ABs etc included, seem to be almost hanging onto WC, and then need rebuild?
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waiopehu oldboy
Stirling Mortlock (74)
^ mostly agree with that BUT many of the issues pre-date Foster & as I posted a few pages back have now become systemic/ institutional.
Adam84
Nick Farr-Jones (63)
All Black's fiery late night clash with commentator
New Zealand rugby's week from hell gets worse
wwos.nine.com.au
Dismal Pillock
Simon Poidevin (60)
All Black's fiery late night clash with commentator
New Zealand rugby's week from hell gets worse
PLEASE GOD LET SKYTV PLEASE SACK JUSTIN JUSTIN MARSHALL PLEASE GOD LET SKYTV PLEASE SACK JUSTIN MARSHALL PLEASE GOD LET SKYTV PLEASE SACK JUSTIN MARSHALL
KiwiM
Trevor Allan (34)
Well when you pick the same tight 5 except for injury that got smoked in Dublin last year it's hardly surprising that they get owned again in this series.
KiwiM
Trevor Allan (34)
He was put there because he represented continuity and test experience (having been an assistant AB coach since 2012) - continuity is something that had been very successful from the ABs since 2004 when Henry/Hansen/Wayne Smith came on board after John Mitchell.
The problem is there were issues creeping in since 2016/17 that were dismissed. ABs first loss to Ireland, ABs not winning the Lions series, ABs losing at home to South Africa, ABs getting destroyed in the RWC Semi vs England etc.
The hope was that Foster had learnt a lot in the 8 years under Hansen in the ABs and would be able to show that he had come a long way since he was Chiefs coach.
Unfortunately this did not happen, Foster coached ABs look eerily similar to his Chiefs team (you may remember Rennie won 2 straight Super titles immediately after taking over from Foster at the Chiefs).
Foster has shown almost no ability to break out from the Hansen mould - selection wise he's made very few changes since 2019 - it's essentially the same side he's rolled out with the exception of injury and retirement. Similar with the game plan.
Foster also has a relatively weak coaching group (which goes against the continuity reasoning) with the exception of Schmidt who only joins the ABs post Irish series (except he was rushed in to help before test 1 only due to AB coaches catching covid - funny how the ABs won test 1....)
Foster was only appointed on a 2 year deal and Razor didn't have any international experience. The NZR extended the coaching team through to the RWC last year (this extension came before ABs had played the Boks). Since then the ABs have lost to Boks, France and 3 x to Ireland.
zer0
Jim Lenehan (48)
There's a parallel dimension where Vern Cotter (somehow) becomes HC in 2012 and brings Joe Schmidt with him. What a timeline that must be. AB's gunning for fourth RWC in a row. Cancer is cured. Vlad is pumping Ukraine full of humanitarian aid not artillery shells. Todd Blackadder is still coaching the, now middling, Crusaders. Truly the most noble and happiest of timelines.
zer0
Jim Lenehan (48)
Also I'm pretty sure @Lightblue is just shitposting this thread.
qwerty51
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Justin Marshall the 48-year-old, media pundit being that wasted in public. Yeah wow.All Black's fiery late night clash with commentator
New Zealand rugby's week from hell gets worse
Kevin77
Fred Wood (13)
Surely Retallick, Whitelock and Barret are your best locks? Seems to be a real drop off after that?
Not sure about the front row.
Who's the best options?
Dan54
Tim Horan (67)
Honest truth Kevin, you are right, we aren't srong in many positions I reckon, if you saw Super rugby this year, there wasn't an awful lot of real top quality skills etc.
Bullrush
John Hipwell (52)
OK....probably an unpopular opinion given where I am BUUUUT.....
The loss of SA in Super Rugby is hurting us. Playing against ourselves and a weakened Australia comp is damaging our rugby.
Even if Australia stays in Super Rugby - and I really want them to stay- we really need to find ways to play SA and/or some of these NH teams more regularly. Our forwards are being found wanting and in the past, we have seen the ABs take a loss and then come out the next week and show another level of physicality, intensity and precision in the pack that they have not been able to do recently.
We need hard, tough rugby against the likes of Etzebeth etc on a more regular basis.
This is the concern I have when looking at the 'up and coming' forwards.Where are the loosies in the mould of Kaino and Jerry Collins? The tough, ugly f**kers like Mealamu, Brad Thorn, Retallick?
With 2 years of mostly playing amongst ourselves, the results have taken a steep dip which may have just accelerated a decline that others here have seen coming for a little while...
The loss of SA in Super Rugby is hurting us. Playing against ourselves and a weakened Australia comp is damaging our rugby.
Even if Australia stays in Super Rugby - and I really want them to stay- we really need to find ways to play SA and/or some of these NH teams more regularly. Our forwards are being found wanting and in the past, we have seen the ABs take a loss and then come out the next week and show another level of physicality, intensity and precision in the pack that they have not been able to do recently.
We need hard, tough rugby against the likes of Etzebeth etc on a more regular basis.
This is the concern I have when looking at the 'up and coming' forwards.Where are the loosies in the mould of Kaino and Jerry Collins? The tough, ugly f**kers like Mealamu, Brad Thorn, Retallick?
With 2 years of mostly playing amongst ourselves, the results have taken a steep dip which may have just accelerated a decline that others here have seen coming for a little while...
Dan54
Tim Horan (67)
Mate I agree so much, I know it's beating the same old drum from me, but I honestly think we miss both the physicality of the Saffas, and the actual development of touring places like that.
KiwiM
Trevor Allan (34)
Well Samisoni at hooker for one. He should be starting every test. Instead he came off the bench for 25 minutes each for the first 2 and didn't even play the 3rd. On form Taylor isn't even the second best hooker in the country and yet he started all 3 tests and played 55 minutes in all 3 tests.
As for prop there was a lot made after the end of year tour that more mobility and impact is needed at prop.
Laulala and Karl T do simply not fit the bill - Ofa is wildly inconsistent and Ta'avao is average. So what do they do? Pick all 4 again. If Moody was fit he'd be starting loosehead in front of Bower - Moody is a shadow of the player he was in 2015.
There should be new blood at prop - De Groot was deemed unfit but he should be there, if you are looking for mobility Hodgman should be there, the likes of Norris really shone for the Maori too. As for tighthead Fletcher Newell should be called upon, Tamaiti Williams shows promise as well.
Certainly agree there isn't a whole bunch that could be done in the locking front but it's worth noting Isaia Walker Leawere performed very well for the Maori vs Ireland - physical, high work rate, impactful, good ball carrier, hits hard. Basically everything you want from Tuipulotu that Tuipulotu doesn't deliver on.
There's no doubt that there's a talent lag in the ABs at the moment (though this year's U20 crop look outstanding and might come through in a couple of years) but the rubbish coaching and rigid selection doesn't exactly help.
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D
DELETE ACCOUNT
Guest
I agree with your sentiment about "where are the hard men?
We have the same problem in Australia and I think it is because the game has become over sanitised to appease the helicopter parents at junior level.
Bit more rough and tumble in the school yard please
Derpus
George Gregan (70)
Ah yes more neglected, violent children are what Australian and New Zealand really need to turn their fortunes around!
Lightblue
Arch Winning (36)
Ah, no….. You blokes are carrying on like you’ve been flogged 50 nil in 3 Tests!
Fair dinkum.
Sack the coach .. what a dud… change the team… yeh, like who do you drop.. what a backline to throw out!
You were beaten by a better team… and you won the 1st test… just cop it on the nose ffs.
Gees .. if the Wallabies had results like you blokes we would be rejoicing from the hilltops!
Let‘s just see what the scores are when you play us…. don’t think you’ll lose…
Tough markers ….
It‘s actually good for rugby ….anyway … as you were ….
By the way, the last game v Ireland was a cracker….
KiwiM
Trevor Allan (34)
Historically this is an awful period for the ABs. This ABs team is right in the conversation for the worst AB team of all time.
- The ABs 22-3 deficit at halftime on Saturday was 19 points (22-3 down). That's the worst halftime margin ever for an AB test (home or away).
- Prior to this series the ABs had never lost a home test to Ireland. Now they've lost 2 in a row.
- The ABs have now lost 3 of their last 4 tests to Ireland
- The last 6 big tests the ABs have played the ABs are 1 win and 5 losses (3 x Ireland, 1 x Boks, 1 x France). I'm not counting Wales B as we played them outside the international window so they didn't have their English based players. It's worth noting that 1 win came when Foster and other assistant coaches (Feek, McLeod) couldn't attend training during the week as they had Covid and so Joe Schmidt and former nz scrum coach Mike Cron had to come in and assist during the training week as they had run out of coaches.
- Prior to Foster the ABs had never lost to Argentina - then they lost to them at a neutral venue in 2020 - again by 10 points (25-15).
In addition to the results the style of play is awful - they have next to no attacking shape (it's basically just biff it to an individual and see if he can beat someone) and the defence is passive. I've touched on the selection issues above (seriously - the Codie Taylor / Samisoni issue is one of the worst I can ever remember.)
Ireland deserved to win the series and were brilliant. In large part due to coaching - Andy Farrell has done an excellent job as coach and has advanced the team on from where they were under Schmidt.
Ireland were brilliant, deserved to win and are excellently coached with world class players.
The ABs are a poorly coached mess and it's bleedingly obvious the coach needs to be canned.
Both statements can be true.
I don't understand the argument of 'cop it' - it's like saying an Australia cricket team that loses a home series to Sri Lanka should just cop it because the Black Caps lose to Sri Lanka all the time. That makes no sense. Especially if it's obvious that Australia team is woefully coached (not a perfect parallel because the roles of coach in cricket and rugby are different).
I've also outlined reasons why Foster and co are poor coaches and some selection issues as well.
This isn't just a recent issue with Foster either by the way - he was a hugely divisive selection as AB coach after Hansen (he got fired by the Chiefs in 2011). The public wanted Razor. The public were pissed off that the ABs ran their process so late that the likes of Jamie Joseph & Dave Rennie did not apply.
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