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John I. Dent Cup 2017 - ACT Premier Rugby

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No.8

Phil Hardcastle (33)
Didn't get to see the game but Whites got up!!

Whites 20 - Wests 18

P.S - what are they doing in Woden - Royals on fire!
 

Brumby Jack

Steve Williams (59)
Having watched the game at the ground I agree with Istanbul. Vikings took their time to get going and then shut the gate for the last half.

Vikings scrum a bit under pressure early but picked it up in the 2nd half.

In other games, Royals smashed a Easts 95-12 and Queanbeyan got up 20-18 over Wests
 

bluebags

Larry Dwyer (12)
Great day and pretty good game at Nichols. Eagles came out fast. A lot of possession for the 1st 20 mins but made no real dent. Kotz intercept made it 7-0 however. Vikings came back with 2 tries to end 1/2 time 14-7. Sinoti was busy and used alot close to the ruck. Dobson bro's were good as was the Eagles scrum.
Vikings OH and Hyne stole a few timely turnovers.

2nd half Vikings just kept on strangling and scoring points. Their maul was great . Thompsons kicking was really good . Think he may have only missed 1 and got most from wide out. His general kicking and control was again good. Gungahlins kicking let them down...a couple of penalties not finding touch, restart going dead etc.
Vikings players started to impress with more ball. Robinson, Hyne, OH, Bowden, Vejvoda were all busy. Ah Wong was unsighted, Suavai saw little ball but scored twice (I think).

Rocky was quiet bar a couple of late runs, Duffy was good made 1 or 2 breaks , dont think Gungahlin made many more all up. Lineout from both sides was good. Kotz may have got the ball 3-4 times and other than the intercept couldnt do much. His workrate compared to Sinotis appears way down

Apologis Lads...had to get this down before I got to pissed
 

Istanbul

Vay Wilson (31)
May have just been a quiet day for Kotz but I've watched Darra twice this year and he hasn't shined. I'm probably judging him tougher than others because he is a big talent and Darra need him to step up in the big games.

Any reports about the massacre at Phillip?
 

bluebags

Larry Dwyer (12)
May have just been a quiet day for Kotz but I've watched Darra twice this year and he hasn't shined. I'm probably judging him tougher than others because he is a big talent and Darra need him to step up in the big games.

Any reports about the massacre at Phillip?

yeah Istanbul...Ive sorta re-assessed my view on Kotz. He is quick but not Lightning. Apart from that, he doesn't show much and modern wingers need more than just pace. Watched him with the Brumbies 7's squad at the end of last year where in a format that should suit him, he failed to impress. Dont think he even made the final team. Still, he has some potential and I wish him well...maybe he's been reading his own press.
 

ACTRugbyInsider

Stan Wickham (3)
Its a sad time for Easts with the third grade squad having roughly 8 players and having no Brumbies. What do you guys think is in need for Easts to finally resurrect

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Istanbul

Vay Wilson (31)
Its a sad time for Easts with the third grade squad having roughly 8 players and having no Brumbies. What do you guys think is in need for Easts to finally resurrect

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Sadly I'm not sure much can be done. I feel sad for the people working hard to keep the club afloat but I just can't see the light at the end of this tunnel. How can a struggling broke club like Easts compete against a rugby club as well resourced as Tuggies? Have to admit I haven't been to an Easts game in years because it's never a close game. It's just not right. The AFL probably has the biggest fan base in the country and no doubt the even nature of the competition has a lot to do with maintaining broad interest. It is tiresome that the home and away in the JID is about 3 teams each year. You can always put a line through Easts and uni and you can always bank on Tuggies being in the 4. This year it's clear Royals will be in the 4 so the rest of the year is purely about who misses out between Qbn, Darra and Wests.
 

Istanbul

Vay Wilson (31)
I think Easts would do well to somehow develop a close link with a source of recruitment. It might mean needing to forego some tradition in order to embrace a new culture but I'd be exploring what it might take to ensure that Easts either becomes known as the eddies old boys club or the Pacific Islanders club.
 

No.8

Phil Hardcastle (33)
Its a sad time for Easts with the third grade squad having roughly 8 players and having no Brumbies. What do you guys think is in need for Easts to finally resurrect



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It is very sad to see a club like this - Yes Royals are an extremely good side this year BUT no 1st Grade side should have 95 points put on them.


What is the answer? I don't really know and by the looks of Easts over the last handful of years I don't think the guys running the show have any idea either.


- Do they need to look for investors to add some cash to the club? Being in the middle of the richest part of Canberra - you would think some members of the club could possibly invest in the club - BUT if they get an injection of cash what do they do with it?


- With the cash (as someone mentioned above) do they take up the services of a professional recruiter - to source players for them from around the country/internationally


- With the cash - could they put together packages for recruited players - i.e car, match fees, kit fees etc


- Do they try and link up with local trade companies and supply workers for said companies with the players they recruit - so they can add a job to the list of things supplied in the recruitment package?


- I have always been a big believer they need to have a better connection with the 2 private schools who are in walking distance of their home-ground - St Edmunds and Grammar - from i.e U13's get into the schools and offer to run Rugby Programs with there allocated Brumbies players/or 1st graders/1st grade coach - offer the players free kit, a structured path to move into 1st grade/2nd grade/colts straight out of school.

They have two of the best rugby schools in the country right on their door-step - when was the last time you saw a 1st XV player from St Edmunds playing 1st Grade for Easts? (I know the Queanbeyan connection is a long standing one, and one hard to break).


- Do they have a Rugby Manager or runs everything for the club? or do they simply have a 1st Grade Coach and a heap of people helping out - maybe they need to structure their "management" team - bring someone in with experience in managing a club/business.

- Do they look for a new 1st Grade Coach?


They need to start thinking outside the box and sitting down - focusing purely on 1st/2nd/colts - writing down where their weaknesses are - where they need to recruit - who can help and go from there.

As mentioned above every season we get into the discussion of who is going to make it and it's always -

Tuggeranong - more then likely winning the comp
Queanbeyan - Will always be there somewhere at the end of the year
Royals - Will more than likely make the top 4
Gungahlin - will prob fight it out with Wests for the last top 4 spot
Wests - will fight it out with Gungahlin to make the top 4 spot
Uni - Good try but again not this year
Easts - Thanks for coming and making up the numbers

Of course it differs from year to year but you generally have a pretty good idea with whats going to happen.


OR do Easts cut their losses and someone forms a new club - the Manuka Marvels or something lol
 

No.8

Phil Hardcastle (33)
Predictions for this week:



Easts V Tuggeranong

As discussed above Easts are struggling at the moment - I think we will see Tuggeranong field a similar side to the last couple of weeks but there will be a much earlier rotation of players - bring in Colts/2nd graders in from half-time.

Easts being at home will hopefully step it up a bit and more then likely Vikings not playing with a full-strength side for the 80 mins might close the gap a bit - but Vikings to win comfortably - by 40-50 points.


Queanbeyan V Uni-Norths

I think Queanbeyan would of taken a lot of confidence from the win over Wests - and the club as a whole - winning every grade last week when really they prob should of only won a couple of matches.

Whites didn't get away without issues though - with Carl Elliot suffering a season ENDING injury - he in my mind is one of the most important players at the club so this is a huge blow to Queanbeyan moving forward.

I mentioned Tonga Tangitau last week who made his debut for the Whites in the front-row and mentioned he may still be at school - I got mixed up with Fred Kaihea - who plays hooker and will step in for Carl Elliot I believe - and I believe Fred is still at Erindale College/or JUST finished - It's his 1st year at the Whites and he really is a player to watch.

Again I'll say it but could we see the Fainga'a twins this weekend?

Whites by 10.



Wests V Royals

This should be the match of the round - both sides are doing well - with of course Royals smashing it at the moment - and somewhat come out of no-where - I have not really heard any news from either club - so I am going to go with Royals to keep on keeping on and get a win by 15-20.

Gungahlin - BYE


Also Brumbies have the BYE this weekend so hopefully we should see a few Brumbies players floating around in 1st Grade which could differ some of the scores somewhat.
 

ACTRugbyInsider

Stan Wickham (3)
From what ive seen from the guys at Easts is the players run the club pretty much with the head coach John Ross making the big decisions - plenty of recruits last year but after a early injuries the first grade squad was merely the second grade squad from round one. Noone wants to play for the "losing" team and i feel like its up to the players that would rather play for a "better" club or whatever? Personally ive never seen a club culture like the Easts. Everyone from top to bottom is full of support and belief for the club the only problem is theirs not that many of them.

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No.8

Phil Hardcastle (33)
From what ive seen from the guys at Easts is the players run the club pretty much with the head coach John Ross making the big decisions - plenty of recruits last year but after a early injuries the first grade squad was merely the second grade squad from round one. Noone wants to play for the "losing" team and i feel like its up to the players that would rather play for a "better" club or whatever? Personally ive never seen a club culture like the Easts. Everyone from top to bottom is full of support and belief for the club the only problem is theirs not that many of them.



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Maybe 1 or 2 people really need to take the reins and create a more structure environment - I love that they all support and believe in the club so much but maybe that's part of the issue - maybe no1 see's a real issue with the club. Maybe abit blinded to the truth?

I honestly have no idea what the fix would be nor have I ever had anything to do with the club so I don't want to judge.
 

bluebags

Larry Dwyer (12)
It is very sad to see a club like this - Yes Royals are an extremely good side this year BUT no 1st Grade side should have 95 points put on them.


What is the answer? I don't really know and by the looks of Easts over the last handful of years I don't think the guys running the show have any idea either.


- Do they need to look for investors to add some cash to the club? Being in the middle of the richest part of Canberra - you would think some members of the club could possibly invest in the club - BUT if they get an injection of cash what do they do with it?


- With the cash (as someone mentioned above) do they take up the services of a professional recruiter - to source players for them from around the country/internationally


- With the cash - could they put together packages for recruited players - i.e car, match fees, kit fees etc


- Do they try and link up with local trade companies and supply workers for said companies with the players they recruit - so they can add a job to the list of things supplied in the recruitment package?


- I have always been a big believer they need to have a better connection with the 2 private schools who are in walking distance of their home-ground - St Edmunds and Grammar - from i.e U13's get into the schools and offer to run Rugby Programs with there allocated Brumbies players/or 1st graders/1st grade coach - offer the players free kit, a structured path to move into 1st grade/2nd grade/colts straight out of school.

They have two of the best rugby schools in the country right on their door-step - when was the last time you saw a 1st XV player from St Edmunds playing 1st Grade for Easts? (I know the Queanbeyan connection is a long standing one, and one hard to break).


- Do they have a Rugby Manager or runs everything for the club? or do they simply have a 1st Grade Coach and a heap of people helping out - maybe they need to structure their "management" team - bring someone in with experience in managing a club/business.

- Do they look for a new 1st Grade Coach?


They need to start thinking outside the box and sitting down - focusing purely on 1st/2nd/colts - writing down where their weaknesses are - where they need to recruit - who can help and go from there.

As mentioned above every season we get into the discussion of who is going to make it and it's always -

Tuggeranong - more then likely winning the comp
Queanbeyan - Will always be there somewhere at the end of the year
Royals - Will more than likely make the top 4
Gungahlin - will prob fight it out with Wests for the last top 4 spot
Wests - will fight it out with Gungahlin to make the top 4 spot
Uni - Good try but again not this year
Easts - Thanks for coming and making up the numbers

Of course it differs from year to year but you generally have a pretty good idea with whats going to happen.


OR do Easts cut their losses and someone forms a new club - the Manuka Marvels or something lol

This thread has discussed the issue before and offered a number of possibilities. Maybe the questions should therefore, be "what have Easts already done " in attempting to gain short-term success and long-term survival. As mentions Easts a club with good culture and a proud history. Those in charge are not dumb and would be exploring every avenue... surely.
Its not always valid to compare clubs or surmise how can they compete with the likes of Tuggers, as no other club possibly in Australia can, and the other JID clubs are still doing ok.
Nobody wants to see Easts continually get flogged. No-one wants to see them fold and no-one wants a 6 team comp. It would be great then, for Easts or the Brumbies to open the whole subject up to the wider Rugby community. Maybe have a think-tank concerning representatives from all clubs, brainstorm it, use open forums ...would be great for someone from Easts to communicate here on Green and Gold as to what they have attempted, whats failed and why.
 

bluebags

Larry Dwyer (12)
Predictions for this week:



Easts V Tuggeranong

As discussed above Easts are struggling at the moment - I think we will see Tuggeranong field a similar side to the last couple of weeks but there will be a much earlier rotation of players - bring in Colts/2nd graders in from half-time.

Easts being at home will hopefully step it up a bit and more then likely Vikings not playing with a full-strength side for the 80 mins might close the gap a bit - but Vikings to win comfortably - by 40-50 points.


Queanbeyan V Uni-Norths

I think Queanbeyan would of taken a lot of confidence from the win over Wests - and the club as a whole - winning every grade last week when really they prob should of only won a couple of matches.

Whites didn't get away without issues though - with Carl Elliot suffering a season ENDING injury - he in my mind is one of the most important players at the club so this is a huge blow to Queanbeyan moving forward.

I mentioned Tonga Tangitau last week who made his debut for the Whites in the front-row and mentioned he may still be at school - I got mixed up with Fred Kaihea - who plays hooker and will step in for Carl Elliot I believe - and I believe Fred is still at Erindale College/or JUST finished - It's his 1st year at the Whites and he really is a player to watch.

Again I'll say it but could we see the Fainga'a twins this weekend?

Whites by 10.



Wests V Royals

This should be the match of the round - both sides are doing well - with of course Royals smashing it at the moment - and somewhat come out of no-where - I have not really heard any news from either club - so I am going to go with Royals to keep on keeping on and get a win by 15-20.

Gungahlin - BYE


Also Brumbies have the BYE this weekend so hopefully we should see a few Brumbies players floating around in 1st Grade which could differ some of the scores somewhat.



Pretty accurate breakdown No8,but might give Royals a few more points. Confidence breeds confidence, so I'll go for Royals by 40.

You mentioned Tuggers possibly rotating players should they get away early. They did this well the other week against the Whites, but previously have been really hesitant to do so, something than many of us here have been a little critical of or perplexed with. Do you get the feeling that Sampson is starting to put more faith in those outside the 1st grade box?
 

Istanbul

Vay Wilson (31)
Pretty accurate breakdown No8,but might give Royals a few more points. Confidence breeds confidence, so I'll go for Royals by 40.

You mentioned Tuggers possibly rotating players should they get away early. They did this well the other week against the Whites, but previously have been really hesitant to do so, something than many of us here have been a little critical of or perplexed with. Do you get the feeling that Sampson is starting to put more faith in those outside the 1st grade box?

I'd say No 8's score line in the Royals v West is on the money. I think Wests are a better team in 2017 and would be surprised if the score blew out too much. I do worry about the Easts v Tuggies score. Tuggies are hitting form, are disciplined and will likely want to reply to the statement Royals made last week. Hard to see Easts being better for having 95 points run up against them. If Tuggies click I wouldn't be surprised to see them crack the tonne which might be a bit of a nail in Easts coffin.
 

No.8

Phil Hardcastle (33)
Looks like the Whites now have 20 players on the injured list with Mitch Douch sustaining an injury in the Wests game as well - so I believe he is out for the game V Uni-Norths. Which is another big loss for the Whites - again being a key player in the line-up.

Looks like we WILL more than likely see Les Makin and (drum roll) Saia Fainga'a in White this week - which will mean the school-kid I mentioned above Fred will prob go back to Colts.

You would think with the injury to Carl Elliot combined with the fact that I don't think Saia will unfortunately play much part in the Brumbies squad this season (apart from injury cover) we could see him play-out the rest of the season for the Whites.

Hopefully see Andrew Smith in for the Whites aswell.
 

bluebags

Larry Dwyer (12)
Looks like the Whites now have 20 players on the injured list with Mitch Douch sustaining an injury in the Wests game as well - so I believe he is out for the game V Uni-Norths. Which is another big loss for the Whites - again being a key player in the line-up.

Looks like we WILL more than likely see Les Makin and (drum roll) Saia Fainga'a in White this week - which will mean the school-kid I mentioned above Fred will prob go back to Colts.

You would think with the injury to Carl Elliot combined with the fact that I don't think Saia will unfortunately play much part in the Brumbies squad this season (apart from injury cover) we could see him play-out the rest of the season for the Whites.

Hopefully see Andrew Smith in for the Whites aswell.

20 Players!!!...that's phenomenal this early in the season. However with their 2nds travelling nicely and some good colts as you mention, whites are perhaps not in such dire straights.
While personally Ive never highly rated the Fianga twins, its always good to see rep players back in club games.
 
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