Lions Tour Thread

[PaarlBok]

Back to the topic. Not many if any of the backup Bokke looking like making the starting Springbok test team and others will drop out completely in the squad.
15. Kirshner had a bad game. Maybe his first test but he just open the door for Rose.
Wings: Twin and Nokwe has been find wanted. Other options?
Midfield: Mossie the only one to claim a jersey. Meisieking not a 12 option. His distrubition skills not up to it and Grant or M Steyn or F Steyn maybe better?
10: M Steyn did not do that bad. Think he is worth the backup to Pienaar.
9: Pienaar the closest you'll get to Fourie.
8: Kankowski. Have my doubts about him. Think Vermeulen is a better backup on test level.
7: Juan was OK in the test but I think we should get one that play forward and help Brussouw at the breakdowns. Potgieter and Schalk should fit the bill.
6: Brussouw. He was iron and sure make the jersey his own now. Hope Stegman can get in as backup here.
Locks: Matfield and Bakkies by many. Bekker for Matfield and Pakslae for Bakkies. Muller not even close. Thought we lost the test because of not cleaning out at the breakdowns. Fourie never got steady ball.
TH: Smit do a good job and we dont have to look further then Jannie Doep
2: Ralapehele not even close to Bismarck. Kuhn or Strauss or Liebenberg will be much better
1. Beast by a mile , Guthro I dunno, havent impressed but he then he havent started. Think Blaauw made a fest out of the same opposition.

I obvious use the Lions as the measure stick. Myself think they have been outstanding in the tests. Will see in a few weeks IF the Lions were just that.

 

[Blue]

Back to the topic. Not many if any of the backup Bokke looking like making the starting Springbok test team and others will drop out completely in the squad.
15. Kirshner had a bad game. Maybe his first test but he just open the door for Rose.
Wings: Twin and Nokwe has been find wanted. Other options?
Midfield: Mossie the only one to claim a jersey. Meisieking not a 12 option. His distrubition skills not up to it and Grant or M Steyn or F Steyn maybe better?
10: M Steyn did not do that bad. Think he is worth the backup to Pienaar.
9: Pienaar the closest you'll get to Fourie.
8: Kankowski. Have my doubts about him. Think Vermeulen is a better backup on test level.
7: Juan was OK in the test but I think we should get one that play forward and help Brussouw at the breakdowns. Potgieter and Schalk should fit the bill.
6: Brussouw. He was iron and sure make the jersey his own now. Hope Stegman can get in as backup here.
Locks: Matfield and Bakkies by many. Bekker for Matfield and Pakslae for Bakkies. Muller not even close. Thought we lost the test because of not cleaning out at the breakdowns. Fourie never got steady ball.
TH: Smit do a good job and we dont have to look further then Jannie Doep
2: Ralapehele not even close to Bismarck. Kuhn or Strauss or Liebenberg will be much better
1. Beast by a mile , Guthro I dunno, havent impressed but he then he havent started. Think Blaauw made a fest out of the same opposition.

I obvious use the Lions as the measure stick. Myself think they have been outstanding in the tests. Will see in a few weeks IF the Lions were just that.

Collectively the Boks were shite and nobody can really look good in a team like this.

15. Kirch was not so bad and if you consider what was going on in front of him. One kick sliced off the side of the boot. Everything else was ok.
13. If Fourie does not start in 3N I think I may just stop watching.
12. Olivier a massive disappointment. He choked. It's a worry. JdV was not flash either.
14. Ndungane must be sent somewhere far away. Like Durban.
8. Kanko to me is an impact player and should be on the bench and not start. Vermeulen has not nearly done enough to suggest he can wear green.
7. Nobody has done anything to suggest they are better than Smith. Schalk Burger should never wear Green again. He simply does not deserve it. I would fast track Pottie onto the bench at some stage in 3n.
4. Our lock cupboard is bare. The best backup to Bakkies is Rossouw. BEkker is a 5, not a 4. Muller is past his sell by date.
2. Chiliboy was not half bad in everything except for the fact that the scrum was shite until he was replaced.
1 and 3 - We have serious backup problems. Hayes killed Guthro and if Smit goes down we are in shit.

I reckon Deans and the Ferney Folk are all licking their lips to have a go at us.

Predicted finishing order for 3N:

Aus
NZ
Boks
Unless someone start coaching this team that is.

 

[PaarlBok]

Agree we are not favourates for the 3 Nations, not by a mile.

The last test was not great viewing and I am really worried about our forwards. Now with Bakkies getting banned I felt that was the place we need spark. To many Lions leaning over and either poach or slow our ball down. That have a big effect when you have a rush defense going against you.

Dont think our lock cupbaord is that bare, three of our top locks out after some strange and shitty happenings in test 2. Took three locks out of a All Black or Wallaby team and you'll see what they will have to offer.

After all I think the excersize in test 3 was worth the while.

 

[PaarlBok]

7. Nobody has done anything to suggest they are better than Smith. Schalk Burger should never wear Green again. He simply does not deserve it. I would fast track Pottie onto the bench at some stage in 3n.

He'll wear it rather sooner then later.

The REAL finding by the Citing commisioner

NZ Heraldt qoute

Rugby: Burger cleared of eye-gouging accusation

JOHANNESBURG - Hard-tackling Schalk Burger has been trying to defend his reputation after being cleared of eye-gouging Lions winger Luke Fitzgerald, but found guilty of a lesser offence.

The flanker was banned for eight weeks for making contact with his opponent's eye area after 32 seconds of South Africa's 28-25 victory over the British and Irish Lions at Pretoria.

When the full transcript of the disciplinary ruling emerged last night (NZT), it was revealed that Canadian judicial officer Alan Hudson had found him guilty of the lesser charge and cleared him of eye-gouging.

Burger defended his approach to the sport on Thursday in a statement issued through the South African Rugby Union.

"As a proud South African and Springbok rugby player, I only have the utmost respect for the traditions of the wonderful game of rugby," he said.

"Through my life and career I have always approached the game with the intention only of playing it hard and fair.

"I am not a rugby thug and will never intentionally engage in eye-gouging or similar illegal actions.



"This was also the case in the second test against the Lions. I am therefore grateful that the judicial officer confirmed my stance with his conclusion that there was no deliberate eye-gouging as charged by the citing official."

Burger has been ruled out of Saturday's final test at Ellis Park along with Springboks lock forward Bakkies Botha, who was found guilty of dangerously charging into a ruck.

Botha was banned for two weeks after his action left Lions prop Adam Jones with a dislocated shoulder and put him out of the final test.

"I will always play the game as hard as possible within the rules," Burger said.

"I apologise to my supporters and fellow teammates for the fact that I have been absent for the first 10 minutes of the second test. I look forward to returning with zest in due course."

SARU issued a statement on Thursday which gave full details of Hudson's ruling.

"I do not find this to be an intentional act on the part of Burger," Hudson said.

"I accept Burger's evidence that he did not intend to make contact with the eye area of Lions No 11.

"In my view his actions were clearly reckless. That is he knew or should have known that there was a risk that his actions could result in an act of foul play, that is contact with the eye area of Lions No 11.

"While there was no significant injury to the eye ... the contact could not be described as simply trivial," Hudson said.

"It is clear on the report of the Lions doctor that there was initially redness and swelling about the left eyelid and there was some short lived tearing and blurred vision.

"I am unable to conclude that there was eye gouging in the sense of a ripping or aggressive intrusion of the eye area, but I do conclude that there was contact in the left eye area which while not serious in the result, cannot be described as insignificant.

"Contact with an opponent's eye area is a serious matter because of the vulnerability of the human eye and the potential of a permanent injury to one of the key sensory organs of the body."

Burger's foul play led to a conflict between the Lions and Springboks coach Peter de Villiers, who said immediately after the game that it was an accepted part of rugby.

He later apologised for the comment and said eye-gouging had no place in the game.

Hope you get your rest now.

 

[Scarfman]

I've watched the video about 20 times in a row and it looks deliberate (but not very serious). I'm not quite sure how you can gouge without meaning to.

I think 12 weeks might have been closer.

 

[Cutter]

Hudson chose a particularly aggressive definition of gouging if he didnt think what Schalk did can be considered gouging. In Hudson world you must need a blunt spoon lifting out the eyeball before you can be considered to gouge. It was deliberate, obvious, very serious and dangerous.

Scarfie how can you say it wasnt very serious? If someone did that to you on the street would you consider it a not very serious matter?

 

[Thomond78]

Oom, that's lifted from the SARU press release; and it's not true.

There isn't a specific offence of eye-gouging, so anyone charged with eye-gouging is charged under offences contrary to good sportsmanship - Law 10 (4) (k).

The actual bit in the decision was that Burger did make contact with Fitzgerald's eye.

3.11 I am satisfied that without question, it was Burgers left hand that made
contact with the eye area of Lions No 11. I am further satisfied that on a
balance of probabilities the referees reasons for his decision to issue a
yellow card / temporary suspension were wrong in this case.

And the main finding:

3.12 Mr Lawrence did say that on the basis of his glimpse, the offence merited
at least a yellow card. He stated that he did not have a clear view of the
events in issue. This hearing has had the advantage of the DVD evidence,
a medical report and the viva voce evidence of Lions No 11. I am
therefore satisfied that the requisite standard has been met and on a
balance of probabilities, Burger committed an act of foul play, namely
contact with the eyes or the eye area in contravention of Law 10.4(l).

Claiming he wasn't found guilty of going for the eyes is simply spin. SARU know the score; it's just trying to lie to the public, I'm afraid.

 

[Thomond78]

Anyhoo...

My second Lions tour (albeit for just over a week), and it was even better than the last (not being fecking freezing and covered in snow helped - although there were moments before the Newlands game... ). Got to watch a game at Newlands with the Oom at last, and baie, baie dankie vir dit, Oom. :thumb

Think the single biggest thing that hurt the Lions was losing Ferris. Without a proper grafting blindside, we played Croft, which meant Heaslip couldn't play, leaving David Wallace as a one-man back-row. That, Bryce Lawrence, Vickery and ROG fucking up the tackle on the man in the air (nothing wrong with trying to win it, but not getting in the air is a fuck-up, plain and simple). Small stuff, but it adds up; it was a bit like 1997 in reverse, in a lot of ways.

The main thing is, despite Lord Bald's best efforts: the Lions aren't just still alive, they're back. The Last Great Tour will roll on for another attempt to bring back tours in four years time.

May just complete the set, then. :thumb

 

[Pfitzy]

Yeah that article is just talking about technicalities. He's guilty as sin Paarl, and lucky to have the ban he did.

 

[PaarlBok]

Yeah that article is just talking about technicalities. He's guilty as sin Paarl, and lucky to have the ban he did.

Well if you feel this way , then you cant blaming the Bokke wearing arm bands, its either yes or no. The system work well or its a vokop?

 

[the gambler]

I think the bokke wearing armbands was petulant and childish, even if they did it as one.

How does saying that a press release was misleading and pure spin prevent someone from thinking that?

The system doesnt work, but taking your protests out onto the field is not the way to change it.

 

[cyclopath]

Just a thought PB, maybe the aggrieved players could petition the collective brain of SARU to make a submission to the IRB about the citing and disciplinary process.
Just a thought.
They looked ridiculous, and trying to make Burger out to be anything other than a goose is making you look a bit foolish.

(I realise I am assuming there is a collective brain at SARU).

 

[Pfitzy]

Yeah that article is just talking about technicalities. He's guilty as sin Paarl, and lucky to have the ban he did.

Well if you feel this way , then you cant blaming the Bokke wearing arm bands, its either yes or no. The system work well or its a vokop?

I think the system needs review. But they were well within their rights to ban Bakkies in the manner they did, and I hope it sets a precedent for others to follow. Hopefully it can then be dealt with ON the field by referees (penalties and yellow cards) and not off it.

 

[Spook]

Steyn is like a child in a big man's body. All the physical prowess, kicks it a mile, but not a good team player, and often petulant when it doesn't go his way. He tries to bully his way around a bit, but in international rugby there's plenty of players as big who are tougher and it won't work.

Happens everywhere: the bloke who was the Big Kid at school level rugby. He was bigger, better, and faster than everyone else and just got his way all the time. Big fish, little pond.

confirm most people's prejudice about South Africans as a people.

Not for me - what they DO confirm is that some idiots make it through to the top level in ANY sport, and that perhaps their domestic system is still a little rougher around the edges than others. How often do we lament a lack of forward toughness in our domestic game? Perhaps if we were more accurate with judicial decisions internationally, these players would eventually be weeded out at Test level, and that would filter back.

*snap* Blue beat me to it... in a way.

Ja pretty shite qoute but what do you expect from Naza. He sound like the Aus cricket team of the past, big mouth wind arse vokken Aussies. Typical.

Nice piece of generalisation PB.

Ja generalisation of Naza to what most Boers think when they see the name Aussie. His Saffers or Yarpies all are thugs or if the dirty Saafers/Yarpies wins it was the cheating ref got to me. Should have known better not to react but there you go. All spill out in a moment of madness.

You don't need to stoop to his level oom

 

[Scarfman]

Hudson chose a particularly aggressive definition of gouging if he didnt think what Schalk did can be considered gouging. In Hudson world you must need a blunt spoon lifting out the eyeball before you can be considered to gouge. It was deliberate, obvious, very serious and dangerous.

Scarfie how can you say it wasnt very serious? If someone did that to you on the street would you consider it a not very serious matter?

If someone I didn't know tackled me on the street ...

All eye gouges are serious (hence my recommendation of 12 weeks), however I've seen worse eye gouges that would merit 26 - 52 weeks.

 

[naza]

Springboks come out of the series with little respect won. I'm puzzled by their addiction to cheapshots and off ball antics. What are they trying to accomplish ? They seem to be determined to be poor sports. They are terrible ambassadors for the sport and confirm most people's prejudice about South Africans as a people.

I needed a giggle.

I suspect the vast majority of people do not form their opinion of a country based on a sports team. What an absolutely ill informed and hysterically juvenile thing to say.

Actually to be fair Blue he is saying people get the impression elsewhere and it is confirmed by the Bokke.

Honestly, how lame were those armbands. Laughed out loud when I saw them. Sheesh talk about lame.

Wow, some posters on here are overeacting. I didn't think what I said was harsh or anything new.

Spiro Zavos

If we ever needed further proof of the arrogance and obsessive belief in the divine right of the Springboks to get their way on and off the field, this gesture has provided it. Botha had charged the Lions prop Adam Jones off the ball and had dislocated his shoulder. He was given a two-week suspension. It is unprecedented in rugby that the integrity of an IRB ruling has been challenged so blatantly and provocatively in this way.

The IRB is not happy

“The International Rugby Board today confirmed it will bring charges against the South Africa Rugby Union for alleged misconduct in breach of the IRB regulations relating to the game including breaches of the IRB Code of Conduct.”

Editor of SA's The Times

For years, South African rugby laboured under the — often unfair — reputation of having crooked referees and Springbok scoundrels.

Since readmission to the world game, South African rugby has worked hard at changing that image. Often we have been spectacularly successful under captains such as Francois Pienaar and John Smit.

At the most recent World Cup in 2007, the Springboks won worldwide acclaim for the tough, but fair, rugby they played and for the unassuming manner of the achievement.

Now the cynical remarks made by De Villiers after Saturday’s incident-filled, but otherwise epic Test match, mean this goodwill is in danger of being destroyed. It came as no surprise that the president of SA Rugby, Oregan Hoskins, had to jump in and rescue the coach with a late-night grovel on Monday.

From Keo, an acknowledgement of the off the ball antics of the Boks

Dickinson met with the coaching staff of both teams on Thursday, and a big point of discussion was the amount of pushing and shoving after the whistle had gone. The second Test was especially brutal, and often more than three players got involved in an unnecessary barney.

Lions assistant coach Warren Gatland said this kind of thing has no place in the game, a view he said is shared by his South African counterparts. At Ellis Park on Saturday, there should be far fewer incidents.

‘The referee won’t tolerate any off-the-ball incidents,’ he told keo.co.za. ‘A lot of pushing and a lot of verbals after the whistle has been evident in both Tests thus far. It’s not a good advertisement for the game.

‘We want a hard and physical contest, but this off-the-ball stuff we can do with out.’

If the Boks' behaviour isn't damaging t, why has South Africa's minister of sport, Makhenkesi Stofile told PdV to

"sober up"
"The role of the coach is to prepare the team," said Stofile. "The role of the spokesperson is to represent the union."

 

[Lindommer]

The secret diary of Peter de Villiers' mum

Just as the heartbreak of our "annus horribilis" (Tri Nations 2008) was starting to heal, it's returned, with the dark clouds again brewing over the de Villiers home. As granny de Villiers used to say, "don't promise rain, just more pain".

And here I sit worrying about Peter and blaming myself for not putting more effort into breastfeeding. It's a terrible affliction this, parenting an unloved/unloveable son. The shame, the blame…where did it all go wrong? I've spoken to Peter again and I think he's growing calmer and we've, of course, managed to wean him off the Ritalin a bit. Last year it was God. That thankfully didn't last as long as his Chuck Norris thing.

Just imagine? All that money, the wooden rocking horse, the cowgirl hats…where on earth would we have put his God paraphernalia - the harp and the "naked choir of angels"?

This last week I overheard him talking tactics to our peach tree out the back. The peaches have got it all wrong, it seems. They are actually avocadoes and Peter spent the whole morning painting them green and teaching them "a running game". But I'm unsure whether he's convinced them. Green is his favourite colour now, 'cos green is for go! Peter says if everything is green, that's peachy, and he's going to win the Tri Nations because that's his contribution to the Green Movement. He told me something about a hole, ozone and Al Gore, but I lost him when he was connecting Bakkies Botha to free radicals.

Life as Bok coach, eh? The pressure! I can't wait for it all to be over.

Bless the Boks, the ozone and free radicals.

Enjoy the fun and game,

Mrs PdV (snr)

 

[PaarlBok]

Lind you fallen exactly in Snor's trap, writing your own stpories. :yay :lmao:

Luckily Doc allows a bit of Boer. This article sure is the closest my thoughts of him.

http://jv.news24.com/Rapport/Rubrieke/0,,752-801_2537926,00.html

His qoute in Rapport regarding the Aussie press

Met die Drienasies-toer gaan hy, soos hy sê, ’n rót uit die hoed haal.

“Ek weet wat ek met die Aussies gaan doen, die bliksems! Alles wat hulle my vra, gaan ek in Afrikaans antwoord. Hulle kan dit gaan vertaal as hulle wil, dis hulle probleem. Al Engels wat ek gaan praat, is: yes, no, I think so. Dis dit.

“Ek het as Afrikaner grootgeword en ek gaan nou ophou nice wees en hulle probeer akkommodeer.”

Eisj, Coach, daai Aussie- en Kiwi-media gaan jou mos vir brekfis opeet?

Hy glimlag. “Aa! Dan’s dit nog ’n honger ou wat ek gevoed het!”

Eintlik was als maar net ’n slim truuk. “Die Engelse het só op my gefokus dat ons die toetsreeks gewen het.”

Meaning he'll just qoute the bolded bit in future to the Aus press and talk in Boer to them, so they can write their own stories just like you did above. :lmao:

 

[Thomond78]

Rough gist of that in English is:

For the 3N-tour, he's going to, like he said, pull a rabbit out of the hat.

"I know what I'm going to do with the Aussies, those whoors! Everything they ask me, I'm going to answer in Afrikaans. They can go translate it if they want, it's their problem. The only English I'm going to speak is: yes, no, I think so. That's it.

I grew up as an Afrikaner, and now I'm going to stop being nice and trying to accommodate them.

Eish, coach, that Aussie- and Kiwi-media is surely going to eat you for breakfast?

He giggles. "Ah! Then it's just a hunger that I've stoked!"

And then some Snor lunacy about the Lions series, completely missing the point that the Lions aren't the English. No, really, my Pietertjie, rerig, Oom, there's others there too. Well, not the Scots, mind, but you get the idea...

"Daai" instead of "daardie" in what's basically Beeld online. Tsk. Standards! Wouldn't happen in Die Burger, I tell you...

Interesting that Snor describes himself here as an Afrikaner. Mnr. de Villiers, may I present Mnr. Kombuis; Koos, Mal Piet Snor...

 

[PaarlBok]

Thomo what is Bliksems in red tale? :nta: