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Melbourne Rising 2014

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swingpass

swingpass

Peter Sullivan (51)
not unsurprisingly (or perhaps, given the rebels penchant for wholesale changes) mc mahon in this week for sione taufa

http://melbournerebels.com.au/news/article/mcmahon-injected-into-rising-lineup

Melbourne Rising team to face Sydney Stars:
1.Toby Smith (Melbourne Uni/Melbourne Rebels)
2.Pat Leafa (Box Hill/Melbourne Rebels) (Vice Captain)
3.Paul Alo-Emile (Power House/Melbourne Rebels)
4.Sam Jeffries (Melbourne Uni/Melbourne Rebels)
5.Cadeyrn Neville (Foostcray/Melbourne Rebels)
6.Luke Jones (Moorabbin/Melbourne Rebels)
7.Sean McMahon (Endeavour Hills/Melbourne Rebels)
8.Lopeti Timani (Footscray/Melbourne Rebels)
9.Nic Stirzaker (Endeavour Hills/Melbourne Rebels) (Captain)
10.Jack Debreczeni (Endeavour Hills/Melbourne Rebels)
11.Tom English (Melbourne Uni/Melbourne Rebels)
12.Mitch Inman (Southern Districts/Melbourne Rebels) (Vice Captain)
13.Sefanaia Naivalu (Box Hill)
14.Telusa Veainu (Melbourne/Melbourne Rebels)
15.Jonah Placid (Melbourne Rebels)
16.Tom Sexton (Power House/Melbourne Rebels)
17.Tuiatua Tuia (Moorabbin)
18.Cruze Ah-Nau (Footscray/Melbourne Rebels)
19.OJ Noa (Harlequin)
20.Sione Taufa (Harlequin)
21.Ben Meehan (Endeavour Hills/Melbourne Rebels)
22.Lloyd Johansson (Harlequin)
23.Joe Kamana (Moorabbin)
 
Tex

Tex

Greg Davis (50)
Another strong team. I understand that there are benefits for the Rebels in having the combinations play together as often as possible, but I think there's as much value having the club blokes getting as much game time as possible.

The NRC strikes me as a competition where the silverware at the end of the season is probably less valuable than the broader development and talent identification opportunities, particularly in a rugby community like Melbourne.

Getting as many (appropriately talented - it's not a charity) local blokes in the semi-pro system as possible should be a priority.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Tex said:
Another strong team. I understand that there are benefits for the Rebels in having the combinations play together as often as possible, but I think there's as much value having the club blokes getting as much game time as possible.

The NRC strikes me as a competition where the silverware at the end of the season is probably less valuable than the broader development and talent identification opportunities, particularly in a rugby community like Melbourne.

Getting as many (appropriately talented - it's not a charity) local blokes in the semi-pro system as possible should be a priority.
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As a previous local player I'd argue they're already carrying local talent. Development. Lopeti Timani, Sam Jeffries, etc. They're the players this is about. Identifying the next 32nd squad member who is only a club player now is far less important than challenging squad members 24 to 32 in a greater environment to club rugby in order to see if they are ready for Super rugby.

In addition the opportunity to be playing Luke Jones at 6 is important. But most importantly, players need to earn their spot. And to do that they have to outdo somebody who is almost at that level. As it should be.
 
Highlander35

Highlander35

Andrew Slack (58)
I still think a half dozen more local blokes will probably get sometime.

Without getting too deep, Greg Bauer, Fereti Sa'aga, Gus Hamilton, Martin Nafahu and RLM would probably get an opportunity at some point, whether that's due to injury, rotation or form.

Otherwise, meh. I'm happy for the squad to be the Soup boys and topped up with the half dozen or so locals that complement them.
 
D

daz

Guest
qwerty51 said:
That's a proper Super Rugby pack.
Click to expand...

And it fucking bothers me. Most of these blokes run around all year. If Tom Sexton is good for a game, give him one. It's ok if he runs out of puff in the first 40, but just get him out there.

FFS, get Cruze on as a starter; the bloke gets 10 minutes a game in Super Rugby if he is lucky, and maybe 20 in NRC? What a great step up that is.

I am sure most of the club lads involved are already learning and developing just by being in the team environment. I think they should be getting more game time, but anyway.

But what really shits me - how about giving extra game time to the Rebels reserves lads? Don't they need this more than 70% of a Rebels starting side?

I tell you what, with all these starting Rebels playing an extra few months of games together, they better make the Super Rugby finals next year.

Vent over.
 
Tex

Tex

Greg Davis (50)
Yep, 100% agree. I've been starved of attractive winning rugby from the Rebels, but there's a bigger picture at play and raising the bar for all players is the goal.
 
Eyes and Ears

Eyes and Ears

Bob Davidson (42)
daz said:
And it fucking bothers me. Most of these blokes run around all year. If Tom Sexton is good for a game, give him one. It's ok if he runs out of puff in the first 40, but just get him out there.

FFS, get Cruze on as a starter; the bloke gets 10 minutes a game in Super Rugby if he is lucky, and maybe 20 in NRC? What a great step up that is.

I am sure most of the club lads involved are already learning and developing just by being in the team environment. I think they should be getting more game time, but anyway.

But what really shits me - how about giving extra game time to the Rebels reserves lads? Don't they need this more than 70% of a Rebels starting side?

I tell you what, with all these starting Rebels playing an extra few months of games together, they better make the Super Rugby finals next year.

Vent over.
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If they wanted to do that, they should have let more of their established players go back to Sydney because IMO a lot of these guys need to be playing too as they are far from the finished product. I am not trying to advocate for everyone to return to their original club and start that discussion again. I just believe that if you keep your best players, they must play.

I am also not sure about why we think of this as a development tournament. I still believe the primary objective is to win the competition. I believe development is an outcome of having a strong, successful tournament and we weaken the development aspect significantly by not playing the best players. This tournament is useful in bridging a gap between Super Rugby and club rugby but I don't see why it is any more of development tournament than club rugby where everyone is trying to win.

IMO if development is the primary focus of the competition, then it will not survive as the competition needs to be compelling rather than just running a few trials. We want rivalry and intensity to the matches. If we get this, development will look after itself.

I would also ask you to put yourself in the coach's shoes - do i put my best team out and maybe win the competition or do I give everyone a go and finish mid table? I know which one I would choose.
 
qwerty51

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
I think in it's 1st year it's all about development and development of the competition itself. Following years it will be more outcome orientated.
 
pablo

pablo

Darby Loudon (17)
daz said:
And it fucking bothers me. Most of these blokes run around all year. If Tom Sexton is good for a game, give him one. It's ok if he runs out of puff in the first 40, but just get him out there.

FFS, get Cruze on as a starter; the bloke gets 10 minutes a game in Super Rugby if he is lucky, and maybe 20 in NRC? What a great step up that is.

I am sure most of the club lads involved are already learning and developing just by being in the team environment. I think they should be getting more game time, but anyway.

But what really shits me - how about giving extra game time to the Rebels reserves lads? Don't they need this more than 70% of a Rebels starting side?

I tell you what, with all these starting Rebels playing an extra few months of games together, they better make the Super Rugby finals next year.

Vent over.
Click to expand...

Agree with parts of your venting, give the young local talent more game time, get them involved and bring on the next generation of unearthed stars.

I also think that there might be some logic behind this selection policy: 1) Are they trying to set their season up early so that they can blood players later on? 2) Winning teams are generally those that play together and have minimal changes, 3) Maybe this is about next year's S15 for the Rebels....the core of the team is there, some new key position players in the 10 and 15, and importantly for Victoria, 4) Winning sides attract crowds.
 
swingpass

swingpass

Peter Sullivan (51)
some of the above i agree with, but i am more with TWAS than Daz & Tex however.

in this 15, only smith, leafa, jones, mcmahon, english and inman were regular starters. neville played a lot the second half of the year when pyle was excommunicated, jones didnt play at 6, the other contracted players were mostly injured or reserves. the only person you could rightly say needs to play more then the current starters for the rising is ah-nau, and it seems he is being used as a tight head in this comp, and PAE also needs the work. it was sexton's first game after a knee recon, jeffries played Dewar Shield more than anything else.

wait till a few more games have gone before criticising the selection criteria/objectives. i think we will see more of sexton, ah-nau, meehan and the "locals" before the competition ends.

edit: good points Pablo,
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
It's about development at all levels. Some of those players like Luke Jones and Toby Smith are trying to develop themselves into Wallabies.

Lopeti Timani and Sam Jeffries are trying to develop into being part of the matchday squad next year.
 
D

daz

Guest
Yes, I agree that there are some very good points up there, you pack of smarty-pants.

:p

Most of you are right, and I do need to give the comp a bit more time, but looking at Cruze sitting on the bench until the last quarter really annoyed the crap out of me, I must say.

I said before the comp kicked off that I am looking at it from an idealised viewpoint, in that I want to give club lads a real taste of the big show, but primarily I want the young Rebels bench and fringe players to get some near-terminal leather poisoning.

Oh, I also want to win the thing as well as get more Rebels into a Gold jersey. Hypocrisy? Moi?
 
Highlander35

Highlander35

Andrew Slack (58)
Toby, Telusa and Tom are from overseas. They should be here.

Paul, Pat, Cruze, Sean and Ben have played their club Rugby outside NSW.

Scott and Luke are our Wallaby Allocation.

Leaving:
Mitch (Uni)
Engo (Uni)
Big Red (Uni)
Little red (Uni)
Debreczeni (West Harbour)
Neville (Manly?)
Timani (Hobbits)

Mitch hasn't lived in NSW since... 2009? 2010?

Big Red wouldn't be guaranteed game time.

Stirzaker is our Captain.

Jack is the only real fly half.

Timani has been injured all bloody season, and I don't think the Hobbits are aligned with any team in particular.

Leaving Neville and Engo. I don't think it would have been unreasonable for either of them to go home, but the Rebels/Rising/VRU/whomever is in charge wanted the full allocation.
 
Pfitzy

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
Rising will want too stick four or five dominant performances in before giving the club guys more of a run. More time to train together without risking a finals appearance. Coaches get to run their eye over the local talent for longer, and mould them into something promising as the new boys learn from the pros.

It's a good strategy, and if Perth and Melbourne are fighting it the finals when AFL is over, I don't see it as a bad thing.

Player development, yes. But RUGBY development as well.
 
Tex

Tex

Greg Davis (50)
I've been happy with Jack D's form in the NRC. Sure, it's a step down from S15, but he's showing a fairly comprehensive suite of skills.

He's got a hint of Bernie Larkham about his running game. Tall and lean with a deceptive swerve, and happy to take the ball into contact. Good to see we'll have a bit more depth at 5/8 next year.
 
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