National Rugby Championship 2014

[I like to watch]

Why does a SS club elect to participate?
I am sure everyone is projecting a loss.
If for example Parra is going to tip in say $50k,why would they want to develop a group of Eastwood players?
Wouldn't they prefer to give an extra 3 or 4 of their own players the opportunity?

 

[Dave Beat]

• Izzy leaving.
• Sabaticals.
• NRC.

What is tier one in Rugby League?
Is it Manly, Parra, Easts etc running around?
Is it the State of Origin?
Is it the Anzac test match?
Questions are asked can our national entity the ARU compete with the salary cap of a club. We are talking National V Club Rugby League.
Now is is Club Rugby League competing against the ARU + Tahs - you also get to travel the world playing rugby, to me there'd be allot of attractions in that, plus if you want to spend a year or two over seas playing you can do that as well (optional).

In my eyes rugby league looks at the club comp as their top tier, and they have 9 Sydney based teams advertising and promoting rugby league on a weekly basis.
In rugby union we have the Tahs, for better part of the rugby community it appears rugby union currently has 1 team who have yet to win a tittle.

Why this thread, the ARU can look at the NRC to promote and advertise rugby - media is on board, and with a bit of luck that will expand but it involves hard work. In my eyes the ARU has the opportunity to really engage the public with the NRC, and with that start building from the bottom up.

In league there are 9 clubs advertising and promoting league from Mar - Sept.
So what is our advertisement? & How is it put out there?

 

[Train Without a Station]

ILTW you are saying clubs would essentially cut off their nose to spite their face.

So a better player who played for Eastwood this year is just in purgatory? That's absolutely fucking stupid and why this game is in the dumps because of shit like this.

As I said I can understand, much like Super Rugby clubs do, they'd recruit them on the basis they play in one of their club teams for the length of their contract but just disregarding better players would be insane and benefit nobody, except the inferior players they already have.

 

[Dave Beat]

ILTW you are saying clubs would essentially cut off their nose to spite their face.

So a better player who played for Eastwood this year is just in purgatory? That's absolutely fucking stupid and why this game is in the dumps because of shit like this.

As I said I can understand, much like Super Rugby clubs do, they'd recruit them on the basis they play in one of their club teams for the length of their contract but just disregarding better players would be insane and benefit nobody, except the inferior players they already have.

Understand your point, but gee you'd hope your players were tight as some of them may drift the following year to a club that is supporting the / their development & cause.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Dave it's inevitable players will drift if they are chasing opportunity at a higher level and other players are ahead of them where they are. Why are players from QLD and NSW in Melbourne right now?

 

[Dave Beat]

Why are players from QLD and NSW in Melbourne right now?

TWAS because the Rebels say they have to, & you know my opinion on that.

I asked above;

• So what is our advertisement?
• How is it put out there?

How does that apply to the Rebels, and what are the measuring sticks?
Not being asked to raise a debate, it is being asked because i think all good business need an advertisement.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Dave, don't make this about the Rebels very reasonably, expecting their employees to ply their trade where it suits the Rebels. This isn't about that. They chose to sign with the Rebels. If they didn't want to live and play in Melbourne - at whatever level they are playing - well it's a pretty dumb fucking move by them I think.

Why are they playing for the Rebels?!! Opportunity! They didn't have one in Sydney or Brisbane!

People need to stop making this about the Shute Shield clubs. It's bigger than that.

If a Gordon player has aspirations of making it and is behind a Manly and Warringah player, and the Stars, Rams or Country were in need of a player in his position, why wouldn't he go there? Rightly they could expect him as part of this opportunity and contract to turn out for an SS team in their JV though, much like the Rebels and Force expect. Funny when you are paying somebody how you can expect them to do as you ask, isn't it?

This isn't an "origin" concept! Surely the highest level drives the talent to the lower level and not vice versa. Am I the only person who thinks this is fucking insane?

 

[Brumby Runner]

Dave, don't make this about the Rebels very reasonably, expecting their employees to ply their trade where it suits the Rebels. This isn't about that. They chose to sign with the Rebels. If they didn't want to live and play in Melbourne - at whatever level they are playing - well it's a pretty dumb fucking move by them I think.

Why are they playing for the Rebels?!! Opportunity! They didn't have one in Sydney or Brisbane!

People need to stop making this about the Shute Shield clubs. It's bigger than that.

If a Gordon player has aspirations of making it and is behind a Manly and Warringah player, and the Stars, Rams or Country were in need of a player in his position, why wouldn't he go there? Rightly they could expect him as part of this opportunity and contract to turn out for an SS team in their JV though, much like the Rebels and Force expect. Funny when you are paying somebody how you can expect them to do as you ask, isn't it?

This isn't an "origin" concept! Surely the highest level drives the talent to the lower level and not vice versa. Am I the only person who thinks this is fucking insane?

I'm with you on this - players will go where the opportunity exists, but I think the concern is, what happens to Eastwood in coming years if say 6 or 7 of their best players opt to take an opportunity with an NRC team other than the Rams, and subsequently turn out for SS teams in their NRC pyramid? Or even, go to one of the SS teams covered by the Rams?

 

[Train Without a Station]

They lose players, ladder position and ultimately, relevance.

Let's be clear. Clubs aren't doing this for everybody else. They're doing it to maintain their position and not to fade out of view.

 

[Dave Beat]

Dave, don't make this about the Rebels very reasonably, expecting their employees to ply their trade where it suits the Rebels. This isn't about that. They chose to sign with the Rebels. If they didn't want to live and play in Melbourne - at whatever level they are playing - well it's a pretty dumb fucking move by them I think.

I'm not.
You asked the question and I answered.

Why are players from QLD and NSW in Melbourne right now?

TWAS - have a look at my response, it is correct is it not?

Not once did I question about why they signed or who they are playing for. I respect your thoughts, and views - and there is no problem in us sharing different views.
I respect your approach because the underlining pin is the same as mine - development and growth.

I asked though;

• So what is our advertisement?
• How is it put out there?

How does that apply to the Rebels, and what are the measuring sticks?
Not being asked to raise a debate, it is being asked because i think all good business need an advertisement.

and that went unanswered??????

 

[Dave Beat]

http://www.manlyrugby.com.au/images/pdfs/RAYS FLYER 4.pdf

 

[Braveheart81]

I asked though;

• So what is our advertisement?
• How is it put out there?

I think it has to be about watching a high standard of rugby at a suburban ground.

It's a club rugby atmosphere with super rugby quality.

Engagement needs to be with the existing rugby community and should probably use some element of gently guilting rugby fans into supporting it because it's important for Australian Rugby.

I can't imagine too many people who don't already attend Super Rugby or club rugby games are going to be lured into attending and supporting.

I think it would be a mistake to focus their attention on people who don't already follow rugby. This is not the level of the game that will bring those people in.

 

[Dave Beat]

I think it has to be about watching a high standard of rugby at a suburban ground.

It's a club rugby atmosphere with super rugby quality.

That is the product, yes, and supporters already engaged in Shute, or Super will follow it, growing on that;

If i had a target market of engagement;
Young families who have kids that play rugby / league or both.
More often than not in the season proper mums and dads travel the country side taking their kids to sport (junior clubs / schools) in the morning and head home for the afternoon.

Junior clubs within the NRC teams play curtain raisers before the main game - how far that is taken well who knows. This will have the the teams engaging with the grass roots, and have families involved and there on game day.

Imagine if Fox spent only 10 minutes on the kids in the lead up to the game - just imagine the draw card with kids seeing them selves on TV.

That's engagement - as for advertising there are experts in that field.

Hi

TWAS even the Rebel Rising could do this

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

Dave, don't make this about the Rebels very reasonably, expecting their employees to ply their trade where it suits the Rebels. This isn't about that. They chose to sign with the Rebels. If they didn't want to live and play in Melbourne - at whatever level they are playing - well it's a pretty dumb fucking move by them I think.

Why are they playing for the Rebels?!! Opportunity! They didn't have one in Sydney or Brisbane!

People need to stop making this about the Shute Shield clubs. It's bigger than that.

If a Gordon player has aspirations of making it and is behind a Manly and Warringah player, and the Stars, Rams or Country were in need of a player in his position, why wouldn't he go there? Rightly they could expect him as part of this opportunity and contract to turn out for an SS team in their JV though, much like the Rebels and Force expect. Funny when you are paying somebody how you can expect them to do as you ask, isn't it?

This isn't an "origin" concept! Surely the highest level drives the talent to the lower level and not vice versa. Am I the only person who thinks this is fucking insane?

I don't think eastwood players will be picked this year in any other team - this would be a slap in the face of the current players in the various "franchises" who have clubs committed to them, unless they are Super Rugby contracted players e.g. Roach. Nor should they. However, next year may be different as players may shift clubs to access the opportunity the NRC offers. it will be interesting to see the roll-on effect that the eastwood decision has on the club (for this year as well).

 

[Dave Beat]

I don't think eastwood players will be picked this year in any other team - this would be a slap in the face of the current players in the various "franchises" who have clubs committed to them, unless they are Super Rugby contracted players e.g. Roach. Nor should they. However, next year may be different as players may shift clubs to access the opportunity the NRC offers. it will be interesting to see the roll-on effect that the eastwood decision has on the club (for this year as well).

Well put.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Perhaps I'm way off base here, but isn't that professionalism? Did SS players consider the Tahs recruiting Jacques Potgeiter as a slap in the face?

This bullshit notion that a player needs to play the level below in the region required before he should be able to play at the higher level (e.g. people making comments like Karmichael Hunt should play club rugby then earn his spot) is so backwards and the fact that people in higher places have the attitude is a huge reason why rugby is so far behind.

As long as there is the expectation to focus on, and be loyal to Shute Shield over the NRC, it will never go anywhere.

 

[I like to watch]

ILTW you are saying clubs would essentially cut off their nose to spite their face.

So a better player who played for Eastwood this year is just in purgatory? That's absolutely fucking stupid and why this game is in the dumps because of shit like this.

As I said I can understand, much like Super Rugby clubs do, they'd recruit them on the basis they play in one of their club teams for the length of their contract but just disregarding better players would be insane and benefit nobody, except the inferior players they already have.

Yeah,effectively Eastwood players will be left out IMO.
For example,let's look at the centres,who are arguably the best pairing in the SS comp.
Parra have the big dude,wests have 3 who have played,or they think are on the cusp of Soup footy,so they won't be upsetting anyone to chase them.
The Rays have plenty of centres vying for spots, so no love there.
Uni? Don't think so
Wicks/Easts/country, Easts rate their captain,Wicks have a handful of youngsters they no doubt want to give the opportunity to,then there are country players who need a run as well.
So which clubs will be pushing to give the Woodies men a run?
Answer? No one.

 

[Train Without a Station]

If your summation of the Eastwood centre pairing for example, is correct, and they are the best pairing in the SS then clearly the people in charge of the other teams are fucking idiots if they would just automatically disregard them.

Now if they said being part of the squad was under the provision the players left Eastwood to join a club in their JV, and the players declined then fair enough.

 

[Dave Beat]

Yeah,effectively Eastwood players will be left out IMO.
For example,let's look at the centres,who are arguably the best pairing in the SS comp.
Parra have the big dude,wests have 3 who have played,or they think are on the cusp of Soup footy,so they won't be upsetting anyone to chase them.
The Rays have plenty of centres vying for spots, so no love there.
Uni? Don't think so
Wicks/Easts/country, Easts rate their captain,Wicks have a handful of youngsters they no doubt want to give the opportunity to,then there are country players who need a run as well.
So which clubs will be pushing to give the Woodies men a run?
Answer? No one.

You answered it for me.

Rays are doing just fine, I reckon 2 or 3 games of 7's running cross field would be great for all the junior clubs in the Rays catchment.

Imagine 10 minutes juniors highlights on Fox once a week, before they play the game. It will capture the interest of the kids and also their parents and that will increase viewers.

 

[Braveheart81]

I'd be surprised if a few Eastwood players aren't picked up by other teams for the NRC.

If teams know they have a weak position and someone at Eastwood fills that, then I think they'll look to include them.

It completely defeats the purpose of the competition if teams limit their squads to only players within their feeder clubs (unless they are more than adequately staffed with players).

I expect some of the players from Rays feeder clubs will end up elsewhere because they have a lot of strong players to draw on.

The alternative would be like the Tahs or Reds deciding that they were only ever going to recruit local players. It's just not in their best interests.

Teams are putting significant investment into this competition and will need to do well to make that investment pay off. It isn't just a chance to give your Shute Shield players a go in a new comp.