National Rugby Championship 2014

[Dave Beat]

If your summation of the Eastwood centre pairing for example, is correct, and they are the best pairing in the SS then clearly the people in charge of the other teams are fucking idiots if they would just automatically disregard them.

Now if they said being part of the squad was under the provision the players left Eastwood to join a club in their JV, and the players declined then fair enough.

This is what i think of your posts today TWAS;

UP THE RAYS.​

 

[I like to watch]

I'd be surprised if a few Eastwood players aren't picked up by other teams for the NRC.

If teams know they have a weak position and someone at Eastwood fills that, then I think they'll look to include them.

It completely defeats the purpose of the competition if teams limit their squads to only players within their feeder clubs (unless they are more than adequately staffed with players).

I expect some of the players from Rays feeder clubs will end up elsewhere because they have a lot of strong players to draw on.

The alternative would be like the Tahs or Reds deciding that they were only ever going to recruit local players. It's just not in their best interests.

Teams are putting significant investment into this competition and will need to do well to make that investment pay off. It isn't just a chance to give your Shute Shield players a go in a new comp.

The purpose of the comp according to the ARU is to develop players.
The purpose behind clubs tossing in big wads of cash that they don't have,is to develop THEIR players.
Especially in the first year,I would imagine most clubs are spending their time trying to fit all of the players under their umbrella into a squad.
Not looking to see if the grass is greener at TG.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Surely the teams which adopt this attitude will be the ones that get left behind as the competition progresses.

 

[I like to watch]

I think as time moves on,the players will move to SS clubs based on opportunities available in the new tier.

 

[Dave Beat]

The purpose of the comp according to the ARU is to develop players.
The purpose behind clubs tossing in big wads of cash that they don't have,is to develop THEIR players.
Especially in the first year,I would imagine most clubs are spending their time trying to fit all of the players under their umbrella into a squad.
Not looking to see if the grass is greener at TG.

I agree with your posts.

I'm sure this comment will cop plenty of lip from the teams that are running under a Super Franchise that is being help up by the ARU.

Some people are calling this Professional, does that mean each player there for has a financial contract with their players, and who / what is paying for that?

The Force / Rebels / Brumbies might have contracts with players - but this is not a Soup Comp. Give the players choice about who they wish to play for........

All my thoughts and posts have been about the development of rugby, maybe Rebel Rising has to stand alone without the support of the Rebels - sorry the ARU who has already tipped bucket loads of cash in. No I'm not saying that - that is stupid.

 

[Braveheart81]

The purpose of the comp according to the ARU is to develop players.
The purpose behind clubs tossing in big wads of cash that they don't have,is to develop THEIR players.
Especially in the first year,I would imagine most clubs are spending their time trying to fit all of the players under their umbrella into a squad.
Not looking to see if the grass is greener at TG.

I think there'll always be exceptions to that. Clubs will absolutely want to develop their own players and provide opportunities, but winning creates opportunities in itself.

There could also be a Sydney club that thinks if they pick up a couple of Eastwood players they might have a bunch of extra supporters thanks to Eastwood having no side aligned to them.

I think it will only be for clear cut cases. Teams obviously aren't going to look at external recruitment unless they think that player offers a significant advantage over a player they already have.

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

If you want eastwood players selected for the other sides then why have SS teams aligned to the various sides? Why not just have a big pool of players and let each NRC side bid and select from the pool? One big draft

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

i am also sure that Manly, Gordon, warringah and Norths would have no objection to putting money into the rays and have 2 or 3 eastwood players running around in the team and developing their game for "the good of the game".

 

[Train Without a Station]

You have SS alignment in order to have a direct link to a pool of talent and access to it.

Why would an AFL team align with a VFL team? Why an NRL team an NSW or QLD Cup team? To benefit them from the relationship, not to exclusively pick from those who have come through their system, to their own detriment.

And Dave Beat, I read your comment. Stop picking on the smaller unions! Haha.

 

[Braveheart81]

If you want eastwood players selected for the other sides then why have SS teams aligned to the various sides? Why not just have a big pool of players and let each NRC side bid and select from the pool? One big draft

You need the existing clubs to utilise their staff, structures and facilities to make it work.

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

So you Think that a pool of players is the way to go rather than align the sides up to the supporting SS club players. just use the club staff and facilities to run the side

But wait a minute don't you want to promote some type of tribal feeling and get supporters of those SS clubs following the NRC side. Do supporters have an attachement to the coach or manager of a SS side or the players?

 

[Dave Beat]

Surely the teams which adopt this attitude will be the ones that get left behind as the competition progresses.

You barking out Professional - I'm interested,
Who is funding Rebel Rising?
Are the Rebels enforcing contracts so their players have to play for Rising? or will it be a level playing field?

Do players have a choice and they can return to NSW if they wish?


Only way Rebels Rising can keep players is enforcing Rebels contracts that the ARU assists in funding, how is that fair and professional?

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

You have SS alignment in order to have a direct link to a pool of talent and access to it.

Why would an AFL team align with a VFL team? Why an NRL team an NSW or QLD Cup team? To benefit them from the relationship, not to exclusively pick from those who have come through their system, to their own detriment.

And Dave Beat, I read your comment. Stop picking on the smaller unions! Haha.

Do you support the selection of non-rugby players in sides like th Olympic 7's team. Maybe we should select league players in that side if we consider that they are better at the game than anyone playing rugby. Surely this would be in the best interests of the game if we were to be successful at the Olympics

 

[Train Without a Station]

Dave,

Is Jono Lance returning to UQ?
Is Jacques Potgeiter (if not in Japan) going to be ineligible?

I'm not going to go through the roster, but these are two initial examples off the top of my head that don't really have ties to SS Clubs prior to 2014.

I cannot get my head around the thinking, the teams that contract a player, and therefore have to approve them playing in any other competition (E.g. Currie Cup, ITM Cup or Japan) in the off-season should not have a say in where they play. QLD would be mad not to keep any of their contracted players they can. They have prioritised them in their system, so they should.

Just for the record Dave, the ARU assists in funding all Super Rugby contracts.

Dave, if you lads at Manly want to override the Rebel's and Rising's claim to any of their plays, pony up the cash so they don't need to sign a Rebels contract. Either that, or just accept that professional teams contracting your players is an excellent advertisement for your club and will ensure talent gravitates towards it. You are essentially wanting to have your cake and eat it too. Without the Rebels what would these players be doing? Would they still be playing for Manly? Maybe, or maybe playing in Europe, or maybe even working away from home like many of us.

 

[Dave Beat]

Just for the record Dave, the ARU assists in funding all Super Rugby contracts.

That I know, and that is my point.
This is 3rd Tier, not Super but with the Rebels there is a direct flow to Rising, and you are taking me into a debate that I do not want to have. We both want this comp to develop & strengthen rugby in Australia.

Dave, if you lads at Manly want to override the Rebel's and Rising's claim to any of their plays, pony up the cash so they don't need to sign a Rebels contract. Either that, or just accept that professional teams contracting your players is an excellent advertisement for your club and will ensure talent gravitates towards it. You are essentially wanting to have your cake and eat it too. Without the Rebels what would these players be doing? Would they still be playing for Manly? Maybe, or maybe playing in Europe, or maybe even working away from home like many of us.

This is an NRC thread, not a Soup / Shute debate. My thoughts are different to yours - I think fringe Super players should be playing in a comp equal to their talent and thus lifting their ability, you think differently and that is allowed.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I agree with you on your last point Dave, I just understand their employers have practical reasons, and when it comes to how you ply your trade, your employer should have more of a say in it than you do.

Every team is a direct flow. It's just to 4 teams in NSW and 2 in QLD. If we want to start taking the discussion this way, the only equitable approach would be to remove all Super talent from the competition, but that benefits nobody and fails to meet the purpose of the competition.

 

[Braveheart81]

That I know, and that is my point.
This is 3rd Tier, not Super but with the Rebels there is a direct flow to Rising, and you are taking me into a debate that I do not want to have. We both want this comp to develop & strengthen rugby in Australia.

This is an NRC thread, not a Soup / Shute debate. My thoughts are different to yours - I think fringe Super players should be playing in a comp equal to their talent and thus lifting their ability, you think differently and that is allowed.

Part of the idea behind this comp is that all fringe Super Rugby players will be involved because that helps improve them and lift the quality of the players below who are vying for Super Rugby contracts.

It makes sense that the Melbourne, Perth and Canberra teams utilise their Super Rugby players because they're already contracted to them and have been part of those clubs and worked with the coach before etc.

Presumably if they have extra players they will funnel them down to other clubs to get a run just as they will have to recruit some extra players to fill holes in their rosters.

This is the 3rd tier and it is always going to have a huge overlap between the 2nd tier and the 4th tier. I don't think you can really escape that nor do I really see a need to.

 

[Train Without a Station]

BH, the most important factor also, possibly more so than having been part of the clubs and worked with the coaches is they live in that city. They pay rent and have lives.

It's one thing to expect them to play in the comp as part of their Super Rugby contract. This would have happened except in Shute Shield previously. It's a complete other thing to expect them to potentially relocate for it, for no additional remuneration. That would be essentially handing them a bill for $5,000 to play in the competition.

 

[Dave Beat]

I agree with you on your last point Dave, I just understand their employers have practical reasons, and when it comes to how you ply your trade, your employer should have more of a say in it than you do.

But soup is finished - and it is holidays.
Compare the Rebels pay roll to that of the Rams - we are different types of employers.

 

[Braveheart81]

But soup is finished - and it is holidays.
Compare the Rebels pay roll to that of the Rams - we are different types of employers.

I believe that Super Rugby players are contracted to play in whatever other competition their Super Rugby club wants them to play in. I.e. they go back to Shute Shield after Super Rugby or they play in Melbourne, Perth etc. Now that will be the NRC instead of club rugby once Super Rugby finishes.

The players aren't on holidays. They don't get to decide that Super Rugby is over so they're going to have three months off and go and holiday in Bali or something.

The Rebels and the Rams are very different employers. The Rebels are running a Super Rugby team and an NRC team. The Rams are only running an NRC team.