New Zealand vs Australia Oct 11 2020 Bledisloe Cup

[Up the Guts]

Daugunu’s tackling technique is almost too good, he gets right underneath players and then drives through which gets him into trouble with the tip tackling.

Is there anyone in Australia that has a better centre of gravity going into contact? The amount of bump offs, pilfers, and dominant tackles he makes for his size is astounding.

 

[Dan54]

Daugunu shot prior to the Ioane no try was an Owen Farrell special (no arms). I was also concerned about a tip tackle he did later in the match but it hasn't really been spoken about.

Someone mentioned a tip tackle to me on Goodhue? My reply, was there a penalty? No? well.............

 

[Uh huh]

Daugunu’s tackling technique is almost too good, he gets right underneath players and then drives through which gets him into trouble with the tip tackling.

It helps that he's four foot six with his arms in the air.

 

[Braveheart81]

OK, I watched through the game again last night paying close attention to the penalties we gave away.

1.46 - We're on attack, JOC (James O'Connor)'s placement of the ball comes off Slipper's foot arriving at the ruck and goes loose. White dives on it and is held immediately with no opportunity for anyone to clean out. The error was in the JOC (James O'Connor) place/Slipper arrival, not a clean out.

11.50 - Koroibete goes off his feet sealing off the ruck. This was completely unforced.

21.20 - Nic White to Matt Philip break close to try line. JOC (James O'Connor) misses a clean out on McKenzie. This one could have definitely been avoided with a better clean out by JOC (James O'Connor).

25.30 - Offside defending our try line. Referee sayus "Michael Hooper and one other" were offside. Certainly avoidable but questionable whether avoiding the offside would have resulted in a try.

34.30 - White runs from the back of the maul a few metres out from the try line. Forwards are tied up in maul and support are flat footed because White doesn't make much ground. Paisami misses the cleanout. This one wasn't an easy cleanout and I think White took a poor option.

36.40 - Banks spins back towards the defence in the tackle and falls awkwardly. To'omua misses the cleanout on Whitelock but had no real opportunity given how Banks got tackled and To'omua was flatfooted.

38.30 - Tupou going off feet at the ruck. Completely unnecessary.

42.40 - Tupou in from the side at the ruck. Completely unnecessary.

56 - Koroibete not rolling away. Daugunu tries to pilfer and the All Blacks don't really have a clean out on him so trap Koro in there forcing the referee to penalise him.

58.30 - Philip carry, Samu flatfooted and misses cleanout. Not a particularly easy cleanout but could have done better.

70 - scrum penalty. Interestingly the referee let them run a longer advantage both in terms of territory and phases than a previous one he'd called advantage over.

76 - Uelese side entry at the maul. Completely unnecessary.

77.20 - Simmons swimming around the maul. Completely unnecessary.

83.46 - JOC (James O'Connor) not rolling away. Same as the Koroibete one. Daugunu trying to pilfer when one of our players is trapped in there forcing the referee to penalise us.

It wasn't until the 83rd minute after Hodge's kick hit the posts that there was a clean pilfer by the All Blacks (to Savea). This happened after AAA carried and Uelese was on his shoulder to provide support in the contact but was ineffective. Neither helped him win the contact or prevented the All Blacks attacking the ball.

My takeaway from all this is that our breakdown work wasn't nearly as bad as on live viewing. Most of the mistakes were isolated and only a couple of times we were penalised for not releasing could have been avoided with a decent cleanout. I don't think this is a backrow issue whatsoever.

Our execution at the breakdown in both attack and defence needs to be a bit better as 5 of the penalties we gave away in that situation were essentially mistakes.

Both maul penalties were dumb.

 

[Brumbieman]

I thought the only one that warranted a penalty was Wilson's. He did it well though because he did complete the tackle so it's a penalty at worst.

What time on the clock was that one? Been trying to find it but I keep missing it :/

 

[Namerican]

I haven't been able to watch any super rugby this year as in Canada, but I was thoroughly impressed with the Wallabies, both the coaching, the older players I knew well, but especially some of the younger guys. Unlike the later stages of the Cheika era they seemed to be playing a modern style that can win games, while keeping their offensive flair. I thought that overall they looked more dangerous and athletic than the All Blacks. The main problems were lineouts, turnovers at the ruck and some scrum penalties, but none of these looked like they should be inherent to the players/coach and are fixable.

With Foley, Beale, the Pooper, Folau, Hanigan, Hodge playing wherever in the first 15, and Cheika, it seemed like they were always trying to win with massive holes in the lineup despite so much talent: a 10 that can't kick, a fullback that can't catch (Beale) or kick (Folau), an 8 that can't carry, a modern team that never kicks etc. Everyone seemed well suited to their role in Bledisloe 1 by comparison.

There was also a lot of mongrel from top to bottom, with Tupou and Daugunu leading the way. The locks/6 were great. The team even looked the part: a lot of no nonsense gritty looking chaps. No stupid hair cuts/all business.

I kind of wonder what the role for Hooper is on this team? It seemed like they needed his mobility/tackling in the past, but that doesn't look like a problem with the current squad. He didn't seem to do too well in his clean outs as not the biggest guy on the park and that was the area they seemed most deficient. You'd hope he could produce more turnovers a la Cane or a Tipuric/Pocock if his defensive energy isn't as needed.

I also didn't mind Tomua's kicks as much as others here, the last one aside. In the past I felt like Australia would just run until they were so exhausted or isolated that they committed a penalty and turned over possession/field position or threw an intercept or something. If after multiple phases you can kick the ball away around the 22, then receive the ball back from a kick coming back the other way around the 22 to 35 metre line, with a rest at a lineout, that's not a bad trade, especially when you typically have a decent option to recover the kick yourselves, have the other team knock it on or take a penalty, get tackled in to touch, rush a kick that doesn't go far etc. He was a bit unlucky that no kick generated any of those outcomes.

I have no clue if he is still in form, but this Wallabies team with Sean McMahon at his best would be handful for opposition tacklers.

Either way, greatly looking forward to the next game.

 

[dru]

OK, I watched through the game again last night paying close attention to the penalties we gave away.

Impressive with your patience there, BH!

so all in all discipline is the biggest issue and an improvement of 50% could considerably more than than just an incremental improvement. Fingers crossed.

 

[dru]

Inspired by BH I took a closer look at the line outs. 1st half only: WB throws.

0:40 Throw good to Philip at #2. Lift not quite perfect. WON.

6:05 Throw good to LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) at #4. Lift good. Solid l/o. WON.

8:05 Throw adequate (?) to Philip at #4. Poor lift. Telegraphed to opposition. Communication? LOST.

18:50 4 man l/o. Throw OK to Philip. Good jump. WON


23:45 Throw looked good, ie height and jumper position, but not straight, PENALTY. Samu at #2, good lift. Not much in this one but throwing to the front should be less risk of not being straight.


On AB throws:

2:30 To the back. No contest. NZ win.

4:40 To the back. No contest. NZ win.

12:30 Throw to #2. Challenged by Samu and won. Aus win.

18:10 4 man l/o not challenged

22:10 to the front. Samu contest, got hand to ball but NZ win.

THOUGHTS

The line out seems to me a work in progress. Not much reading of the opposition, a simple plan when to challenge and happy not to challenge much of the time. Hopefully this gets incrementally more sophisticated.

The throws by FF (Folau Fainga'a) are not the heinous rubbish I remember watching live and bar the one penalty issues appear to be communication. They get it right mostly. Again I would hope for incremental improvement.

Jumpers were mostly Philip, and especially on the challenge, Samu. I had reservations with Samu in the line out which can be put to bed. Perhaps they could make more use of LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto).

 

[Derpus]

The line out seems to me a work in progress. Not much reading of the opposition, a simple plan when to challenge and happy not to challenge much of the time. Hopefully this gets incrementally more sophisticated.

I thought he was clearly keeping his powder dry here. Their lineout is an obvious weakness and the two times we challenged we put real pressure on it.

Or im an idiot and the decision not to challenge was more about getting the defensive line set fast.

 

[Slim 293]

Jumpers were mostly Philip, and especially on the challenge, Samu. I had reservations with Samu in the line out which can be put to bed. Perhaps they could make more use of LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto).

I think people overlook Samu's lineout abilities because of his height, but he's actually a good jumper and racked up a few steals this year...........

LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) has always looked reliable in the lineout as well, so should be utilised more.

 

[dru]

I think people overlook Samu's lineout abilities because of his height, but he's actually a good jumper and racked up a few steals this year.....

LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) has always looked reliable in the lineout as well, so should be utilised more.

Mea culpa on Samu.


Edit: also should add on re-watching just what a powerhouse game Philip gave.

I’m still “jury is out” on Banks.

 

[dru]

I thought he was clearly keeping his powder dry here. Their lineout is an obvious weakness and the two times we challenged we put real pressure on it.

Or im an idiot and the decision not to challenge was more about getting the defensive line set fast.

Mix and match I think. A lot to do with location on the field as well.

 

[Dctarget]

Edit: also should add on re-watching just what a powerhouse game Philip gave.

I'm loving his form. Really seems that his type of bruising, no frills lock comes into their own with a bit of age. Hope Philip stays around a while and teaches Rodda and Co we're just fine without them.

 

[Up the Guts]

Mix and match I think. A lot to do with location on the field as well.

Fair to say we didn’t contest when they were going to the driving maul?

Perhaps the risk reward is not in it but I’m always a fan of sending someone up to try and stop the maul before it even starts.

 

[dru]

Fair to say we didn’t contest when they were going to the driving maul?

Perhaps the risk reward is not in it but I’m always a fan of sending someone up to try and stop the maul before it even starts.

Yes, but other times as well. I think they conceded where a maul was likely or defending a 4 man. Outside of that they seemed to set for a challenge for a front throw but let it go if it went to the back.

 

[Braveheart81]

8:05 Throw adequate (?) to Philip at #4. Poor lift. Telegraphed to opposition. Communication? LOST.

Wasn't this the one where the All Blacks caught it cleanly well in front of Philip?

I'd say that is a throwing issue. It was never high enough to get to the intended jumper if anyone tried to catch it closer to the front.

 

[dru]

Wasn't this the one where the All Blacks caught it cleanly well in front of Philip?

I'd say that is a throwing issue. It was never high enough to get to the intended jumper if anyone tried to catch it closer to the front.

I had meant to say I’m happy for corrections. Yes that one.


5 man line out attacking from outside the 25.
Set up from #1 to #5 is Tupou, Samu, Philip, LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), Slipper. At the throw “let’s dance”.
> Philip and LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) swap.
>Tupou loops around to #3 - lift position for Philip
> Samu pushes back as LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) looks over his inside shoulder to where the ball is obviously going.
> Philip is twisted side on during the lift

All Blacks have no dance, see where it is going and jump cleanly from in front.

The throw was short (would have hit Philip on his inside nipple not at outstretched hands) but would have been caught. But generally it was simply telegraphed with ABs guessing at a long throw before set up and growing confidence in their defense the more we told them what was going to happen.

I put it to execution but dont think FF (Folau Fainga'a) takes sole blame. Definitely messy for us and as you say very clean for the ABs.

 

[Brumbieman]

Yeah, pinning it all on FF (Folau Fainga'a) is silly. Phillips, LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) and FF (Folau Fainga'a) all play for different teams and haven't had much time together. Some better lifting, timing and less Wellington cross wind and we're fine.

 

[Braveheart81]

Surely a throw that would have only made it to chest height of the intended recipient is the hooker's error.

I agree that all our lineout woes weren't solely Fainga'a fault. It seems pretty clear that a very short throw and a not straight throw are the hooker's fault though.

 

[Brumbieman]

Oh for sure, but that's kind of the point - one was a shit throw, one got blown sideways in the wind, so for only one or two genuinely accountable errors, FF (Folau Fainga'a) seems to be less of the main issue most people thought during the game.

Just putting some perspective on the lineout woes