NSW AAGPS 2019

[Flavio]

On a similar vein, there is lots of talk about pathways to rep sides. What is being done for all those boys in the 2nds, 3rds, 4ths etc to keep them playing after school. Are the Grade and Subbies clubs actively recruiting ?

As Andrew Hutton President of Lindfield Juniors said

"We need to focus on the benefit the game has to offer for everyone NOT just the rep players or A grade, these player aren’t the one leaving it’s the people such as myself who was never in a rep side, not in the 1st 15 but did play until I was 35 and have some of the best mates because of it. Even playing as poorly as I did the game gave me the opportunity to play in 4 different countries and know that regardless of where I was that community spirit and comradery of the game made me feel welcome"

 

[Joker]

Here is our real enemy....

 

[Quick Hands]

Thats disappointing about Wenona. The ARU have been asleep at the wheel for a long time now. They know that girls participation is growing strongly at club rugby yet miss these opportunities. They are leaving the development of junior rugby players to schools which are now accepting money from the AFL.

On a lighter note, I thought I would share a photo of a Shore cross country runner available from the Shore website..it appears they have the biggest cross country team in the GPS, average height 6'2", average weight 95kg. (i hope I upload this picture ok). I hope this boy chooses rugby instead of cross country next year!

Rowers doing off-season training and fulfilling sports obligations to the school?

 

[Quick Hands]

I am not disrespecting Shore rugby. They field 5-6 teams in each age group and 8-9 teams in opens and excluding the first Xv results win about 40% of their games. It’s a good rugby school outside the performances of first xv. AFL started at Shore in 2014 with 1 team and 25 players. I wasn’t aware the team numbers had gone from 4 to 3 between 2018 and 2019. But I know there were 85-90 players and 4 teams last year. If AFL players have fallen in 2019 then as a rugby man, Im glad if those boys went to rugby. But there is no doubt that AFL is growing at Shore following the school accepting money from the AFL.
Full time rower = rowers who book themselves into cross country at school over the winter and row at club.
The main point is that the ARU is mostly leaving the development of junior rugby players to these types of schools (who play 7-8 games pa?) but the AFL (and other factors mentioned) are putting pressure on rugby participation at these schools. The frustrating thing is that what I’m describing has been going on for a long time now and the ARU appear to be happy to just watch it happen. Any of you involved in junior club rugby this year will know the problems all clubs are having with the sjru scheduling -its been a joke!

In the space of 3 years, AFL at Newington has gone from 0 teams to 3 teams. It's a problem.

 

[The Honey Badger]

.0 I'm not associated with Shore but I know that the current year 12 co hort have seen their first xv win 1 game of rugby over their entire time in high school.

Incorrect

I take it the current year 12 started year 7 in 2014.

Suggest you check the records for that year.

They have won plenty of Non GPS games as well.

 

[Quick Hands]

Incorrect

I take it the current year 12 started year 7 in 2014.

Suggest you check the records for that year.

They have won plenty of Non GPS games as well.

From the AAPGS archives

Shore results:
2014 - 2 wins, 1 draw, 7 losses (the draw was with SJC, wins over Riverview and Kings)
2015 - 0 wins, 0 draws, 10 losses
2016 - 1 win, 0 draws, 9 losses (win over Riverview)
2017 - 0 wins, 0 draws, 5 losses
2018 - 0 wins, 0 draws, 5 losses

Think they also beat Newington in a trial in 2017, but lost the GPS game as the season had (unfortunately) reverted to one round.

 

[SonnyDillWilliams]

I personally think the primary problem with Shore is their rigid enrolment policies

not even old boys seem to be a sure thing of getting their sons in. the OBU should do something about it ... particularly when you hear stories of 4th generations going to the school, and "no, sorry you missed the deadline. tough." I don't know how that Registrar has not been hung out to ####... Jika Travers would be rolling in his grave!

I see the Scots team lists .. and there are lots of names of kids whose fathers went to Shore a generation ago

now I don't know if they have moved to the East ... or they are attracted to the Scots rugby resurgence ... but definitely a loss to Shore rugby.

DELETED - Not in this thread

 

[Lindommer]

I personally think the primary problem with Shore is their rigid enrolment policies. Not even old boys seem to be a sure thing of getting their sons in. the OBU should do something about it . particularly when you hear stories of 4th generations going to the school, and "no, sorry you missed the deadline. tough." I don't know how that Registrar has not been hung out to ####. Jika Travers would be rolling in his grave! I see the Scots team lists .. and there are lots of names of kids whose fathers went to Shore a generation ago.

1. Please correct me if I'm wrong but, potential Shore students have to be put on the waiting list shortly after birth to be guaranteed a spot. However, sons of OBs can wait until the lad's a year old before the waiting list's closed.
2. IIRC there was a disagreement in the recent past between Mosman Prep and Shore about those strict enrolment timelines resulting in Scots offering MP (Moana Pasifika) boys a spot at Bellevue Hill. If that's the case those Scots boys with Shore OB dads probably live north of the bridge.

 

[Black & White]

Here is our real enemy..

We should here in Sydney, make consideration, that Aussie Rules becomes a summer sport. That way, it doesn't compete with Rugby for numbers. Lets face it, the game looks more like basketball, than the winter sports of both rugbys. Even soccer is widely different from Aussie Rules.

From a marketing point of view, if Aussie rules became a summer sport, it could well experience growth in Sydney as a summer game . As large numbers of Soccer and Rugby players would be free, to play the game as their major summer sport.

Equally, Rugby could experience a growth in Victoria if AFL converted to a summer sport. Think, about it all those APS and Associated Grammar Schools playing Rugby. Also we must realise that there 11 APS schools (Their GPS) and about 9 or 10 (their Associated Grammar Schools) could provide tremendous depth to Australian Rugby if such conversion occurred in the Winter and Summer sports calendar.


But it requires individuals who have a strategic version, not just in Rugby but also in Aussie Rules. From our perspective could Raylene be a player in such a change, one would hope so, but I am not holding my breathe.

But as I see it, such a change would be a win, win for both codes as well as soccer and Heaven forbid that other mutant game of Rugby.

 

[Quick Hands]

I personally think the primary problem with Shore is their rigid enrolment policies

not even old boys seem to be a sure thing of getting their sons in. the OBU should do something about it . particularly when you hear stories of 4th generations going to the school, and "no, sorry you missed the deadline. tough." I don't know how that Registrar has not been hung out to ####. Jika Travers would be rolling in his grave!

I see the Scots team lists .. and there are lots of names of kids whose fathers went to Shore a generation ago

now I don't know if they have moved to the East . or they are attracted to the Scots rugby resurgence . but definitely a loss to Shore rugby.

Enrolments are a huge problem for Shore. Demand far outstrips supply for a finite number of positions. No matter who the registrar is they won't be able to solve the problem. Technically sons of OBs get till the boy's 1st birthday to apply, but all this does is put them ahead of the sons of non-OBs - problem being that the positions are already filled by the sons of other OBs before that point.

It again illustrates the problem of unbalanced enrolments - Grammar's enrolment policy caused many OBs to send their sons elsewhere as the school demographics changed to the extent that the student body doesn't reflect wider society. Shore's issue is the exact opposite in that it's difficult for anyone other than the sons of OBs to get in, this also leads to a student body which doesn't reflect wider society.

They have over a 90% sons of OB population but much of the anglo demographic that they draw on are now affiliated with soccer or Aussie Rules.

 

[chasmac]

Is there a list out for the U16 schoolboy state teams.
I heard they were announced yesterday.

 

[The Honey Badger]

From the AAPGS archives

Shore results:
2014 - 2 wins, 1 draw, 7 losses (the draw was with SJC, wins over Riverview and Kings)
2015 - 0 wins, 0 draws, 10 losses
2016 - 1 win, 0 draws, 9 losses (win over Riverview)
2017 - 0 wins, 0 draws, 5 losses
2018 - 0 wins, 0 draws, 5 losses

Think they also beat Newington in a trial in 2017, but lost the GPS game as the season had (unfortunately) reverted to one round.

Those rare wins and even the draw all Epic events for the Shore faithful.

Its been a dark decade at Shore for Rugby. They have had some very good school teams but no match for the professionals.

A glimmer of hope on the horizon with a couple of age groups competing very well, particularly the current U15.

 

[formerflanker]

Those rare wins and even the draw all Epic events for the Shore faithful.

Its been a dark decade at Shore for Rugby. They have had some very good school teams but no match for the professionals.

A glimmer of hope on the horizon with a couple of age groups competing very well, particularly the current U15.

I predict the professionals will utilise well known strategies to snuff out that glimmer of hope.
Still, a new Principal next year may see some tweaking of recruitment policies.

 

[Major Rennie]

Just on the Shore thing, many parents like that it has become more academic as well in the last 20 odd years. The soon to be leaving Headmaster had a lot to do with this and think its a good thing. Sport and winning became less of a focus and is more on getting all kids academic results heading north. My kids dont go there, long story, though know plenty of parents who do and did not necessarily go there themselves. They wanted their son to attend for this very reason. Personally, I reckon some of these Headmasters are on an ego trip when they think parachuting kids into the top teams brings kudos. The opposite happens as kids who could have been in the top team miss out. Its not everything if the top team wins all the time. It's everything if your child doesn't participate, enjoy and do their best. MR

 

[The Honey Badger]

I predict the professionals will utilise well known strategies to snuff out that glimmer of hope.
Still, a new Principal next year may see some tweaking of recruitment policies.

Lets see how the new head goes. He doesn't strike me as the kind of fellow that might rock the boat. Quite likely more of the same , perhaps some more divinity classes.

 

[Quick Hands]

Lets see how the new head goes. He doesn't strike me as the kind of fellow that might rock the boat. Quite likely more of the same , perhaps some more divinity classes.

Interestingly, he's apparently the brother-in-law of the new Headmaster at Kings.

 

[Chip kick]

Lets see how the new head goes. He doesn't strike me as the kind of fellow that might rock the boat. Quite likely more of the same , perhaps some more divinity classes.

Let's remember that the school does quite well from an athletic point of view in other sports namely rowing, basketball and cricket, so the demographic argument doesn't seem like a strong one. It comes down to recruitment and at what cost to the other programs within the school. Rugby it seems is the sacrificial lamb. They are running a school and the rugby results in the Opens are definitely not hurting the bottom line as far as I can see. I do think it would be great to have all GPS teams competitive , however it might be time to reinvent the wheel for rugby competitions as it is clearly in trouble from the top to the toe.

 

[Joker]

Lets see how the new head goes.

Meanwhile at SHORE, the Old boys have a quiet word with the new Headmaster.

 

[Up the Guts]

Interesting one at Shore. Rugby is still valued very highly by most of the boys and, for the most part, the school gets good results below A and B level. I’d say they were behind the eight ball for a while in terms of S&C for the younger age groups. Shore has notoriously small sides and to counter this you’d often find boys stuck in high teams in the 13s and 14s just because they were bigger. Some of the smaller better skilled players then ended up in lower teams.

This meant boys were often only breaking into the higher teams when they hit 15s or 16s. By then they’ve not experienced top quality coaching, they’ve missed out on a couple of years of strength training (it was the case for a while only the A sides would do gym work), and they’ve never experienced playing against top quality opposition. So they either wouldn’t be as skilled as they could be moving into the opens or, more damagingly, there would be some that never really went on with it. There are many boys at Shore who perform well in other sports and rugby supporters are often left thinking why didn’t he get taught to play rugby?

They’ve improved the S&C, coaching structures, etc. but we’re really waiting on the current 15s to filter through who have reaped the benefits of this.

 

[Joker]

BTW...