• Welcome to the Green and Gold Rugby forums. As you can see we've upgraded the forums to new software. Your old logon details should work, just click the 'Login' button in the top right.

NSW Schools Debating 2024

OutsideSentHer13

Allen Oxlade (6)
How come shore loses to queenwood they have Kwak
Interesting insight but Queenwood seems to have more depth. Shore didn't go undefeated in their pool so I think that it'll be interesting if the one-person team can overcome a strong Queenwood team.

In addition, teams typically run a weaker side in the octos to share around speaking time in the later finals so Kwak may be rested.
 

Professor

Stan Wickham (3)
I have dedicated my life to academia and studying the intricacies of debating, I have looked to the stars, distant planets and even to legends among us like Jason's rizz skills. this has culminated in a wealth of knowledge and sensed about our great sport of debating, and in anticipation of octos my debating senses are tingling. my predictions are as follows for 1s:



Ascham make semis


Grammar lose octos to a stacked st Andrews side


Shore defend the bridge and beat queenwood then lose immidiately after (might not be debating)


Barker have a strong run making semis and joined by aloys

and the most important take is the winner
With the aus captain out of the comp I must give it clearly to St Andrews.


these are my scholarly takes.



I would make predictions for senior B but no one looks at the All Blacks reserves.
 

OutsideSentHer13

Allen Oxlade (6)
I have dedicated my life to academia and studying the intricacies of debating, I have looked to the stars, distant planets and even to legends among us like Jason's rizz skills. this has culminated in a wealth of knowledge and sensed about our great sport of debating, and in anticipation of octos my debating senses are tingling. my predictions are as follows for 1s:



Ascham make semis


Grammar lose octos to a stacked st Andrews side


Shore defend the bridge and beat queenwood then lose immidiately after (might not be debating)


Barker have a strong run making semis and joined by aloys

and the most important take is the winner
With the aus captain out of the comp I must give it clearly to St Andrews.


these are my scholarly takes.



I would make predictions for senior B but no one looks at the All Blacks reserves.
Interesting @Professor , do you have full predictions for each debate this week?
 

OffPutPlayer

Frank Row (1)
What are people's predictions for GPS this season? After what was probably one of the most even spread of competition last year, it's safe to say this year is looking to be even tighter. With returning members from each school and 2 Aus squad members from GPS schools (that aren't Grammar!) it's anyone's game.

1. Grammar - Pretty self explanatory. 4 state squad members with the two returning team members in DLH and Will Ellis. An undefeated seconds squad last year with David Guo and Jason Lin whom I've heard were extremely impressive last year. I think Grammar want to go back to winning ways and this year could start it.
2. High - Headed by CHS 1s member Vishruth Anand, High seem to be as strong a contender as ever. They've had a turbulent run in Eastside, with a loss to the likes of Rose Bay but beating an undefeated Sydney Girls with an Australian speaker Anhaar Kareem, however it is noted that Eastside isn't always the best gauge of GPS performances.
3. Shore - Michael Kwak probably aims to win GPS again. I've heard he's an incredibly strong speaker that single handedly saw Shore through very tough debates. I'm just unsure if he's able to overcome the depth of Grammar as seen by the loss to Queenwood. I expect around 5 wins from them.
4. Joeys - It's crazy to put the Australian captain this low, but I just can't see Joeys do the three-peat this year. The loss of Benji Sestanovic and their less than ideal run in ISDA sees major concerns for the reigning champions. They do boast the talent of GPS 2nds and returning year 10 first grade speaker in John Toohey. Their low position is more a testament to the quality of the competition and not their team itself.
5. Kings - Kings have a more youthful squad. I've heard the likes of Ethan Zhu and Murphy Xi have been extremely successful, especially in their ISDA campaign record of 5-2, and now they're into quarters. I think they're likely to bounce back from a 0-7 campaign last year and be a real dark horse for upsets.
6. Riverview - With the likes of Tom Doyle and Angus Martinez as leaders, both having gotten state callbacks, Riverview are a team with decent depth and a squad that did extremely well in 2nds last year. In any other year, they certainly would've been GPS contenders but just looking at the strength of the competition, they just seem to fall short of the others.
7. Scots - The loss of state squad member Jehiel Pather was a huge blow for Scots and I just don't think they have much of a foundation to compete with other GPS schools. However, it is not unlike Scots for hidden to talent to emerge with their strong coaching history.
8. Newington - Despite being coached by Ben Diskin, Newington unfortunately lack the foundational backing to really contend in GPS, however they did pull off some great wins last year and could certainly do it again.
 
Last edited:

Evenif

Frank Row (1)
What are people's predictions for GPS this season? After what was probably one of the most even spread of competition last year, it's safe to say this year is looking to be even tighter. With returning members from each school and 2 Aus squad members from GPS schools (that aren't Grammar!) it's anyone's game.

1. Grammar - Pretty self explanatory. 4 state squad members with the two returning team members in DLH and Will Ellis. An undefeated seconds squad last year with David Guo and Jason Lin whom I've heard were extremely impressive last year. I think Grammar want to go back to winning ways and this year could start it.
2. High - Headed by CHS 1s member Vishruth Anand, High seem to be as strong a contender as ever. They've had a turbulent run in Eastside, with a loss to the likes of Rose Bay but beating an undefeated Sydney Girls with an Australian speaker Anhaar Kareem, however it is noted that Eastside isn't always the best gauge of GPS performances.
3. Shore - Michael Kwak probably aims to win GPS again. I've heard he's an incredibly strong speaker that single handedly saw Shore through very tough debates. I'm just unsure if he's able to overcome the depth of Grammar as seen by the loss to Queenswood. I expect around 5 wins from them.
4. Joeys - It's crazy to put the Australian captain this low, but I just can't see Joeys do the three-peat this year. The loss of Benji and their less than ideal run in ISDA sees major concerns for the reigning champions. They do boast the talent of GPS 2nds and returning year 10 first grade speaker in John Toohey. Their low position is more a testament to the quality of the competition and not their team itself.
5. Kings - Kings have a more youthful squad. I've heard the likes of Ethan Zhu and Murphy Xi have been extremely successful, especially in their ISDA campaign record of 5-2, and now they're into quarters. I think they're likely to bounce back from a 0-7 campaign last year and be a real dark horse for upsets.
6. Riverview - With the likes of Tom Doyle and Angus Martinez as leaders, both having gotten state callbacks, Riverview are a team with decent depth and a squad that did extremely well in 2nds last year. In any other year, they certainly would've been GPS contenders but just looking at the strength of the competition, they just seem to fall short of the others.
7. Scots - The loss of state squad member Jehiel Pather was a huge blow for Scots and I just don't think they have much of a foundation to compete with other GPS schools. However, it is not unlike Scots for hidden to talent to emerge with their strong coaching history.
8. Newington - Despite being coached by Ben Diskin, Newington unfortunately lack the foundational backing to really contend in GPS, however they did pull off some great wins last year and could certainly do it again.
Shore lost? Did not expect that
 

OutsideSentHer13

Allen Oxlade (6)
What are people's predictions for GPS this season? After what was probably one of the most even spread of competition last year, it's safe to say this year is looking to be even tighter. With returning members from each school and 2 Aus squad members from GPS schools (that aren't Grammar!) it's anyone's game.

1. Grammar - Pretty self explanatory. 4 state squad members with the two returning team members in DLH and Will Ellis. An undefeated seconds squad last year with David Guo and Jason Lin whom I've heard were extremely impressive last year. I think Grammar want to go back to winning ways and this year could start it.
2. High - Headed by CHS 1s member Vishruth Anand, High seem to be as strong a contender as ever. They've had a turbulent run in Eastside, with a loss to the likes of Rose Bay but beating an undefeated Sydney Girls with an Australian speaker Anhaar Kareem, however it is noted that Eastside isn't always the best gauge of GPS performances.
3. Shore - Michael Kwak probably aims to win GPS again. I've heard he's an incredibly strong speaker that single handedly saw Shore through very tough debates. I'm just unsure if he's able to overcome the depth of Grammar as seen by the loss to Queenswood. I expect around 5 wins from them.
4. Joeys - It's crazy to put the Australian captain this low, but I just can't see Joeys do the three-peat this year. The loss of Benji and their less than ideal run in ISDA sees major concerns for the reigning champions. They do boast the talent of GPS 2nds and returning year 10 first grade speaker in John Toohey. Their low position is more a testament to the quality of the competition and not their team itself.
5. Kings - Kings have a more youthful squad. I've heard the likes of Ethan Zhu and Murphy Xi have been extremely successful, especially in their ISDA campaign record of 5-2, and now they're into quarters. I think they're likely to bounce back from a 0-7 campaign last year and be a real dark horse for upsets.
6. Riverview - With the likes of Tom Doyle and Angus Martinez as leaders, both having gotten state callbacks, Riverview are a team with decent depth and a squad that did extremely well in 2nds last year. In any other year, they certainly would've been GPS contenders but just looking at the strength of the competition, they just seem to fall short of the others.
7. Scots - The loss of state squad member Jehiel Pather was a huge blow for Scots and I just don't think they have much of a foundation to compete with other GPS schools. However, it is not unlike Scots for hidden to talent to emerge with their strong coaching history.
8. Newington - Despite being coached by Ben Diskin, Newington unfortunately lack the foundational backing to really contend in GPS, however they did pull off some great wins last year and could certainly do it again.
Any predictions for Archdale/CAS/other Term 3 Comps?
 

DebaterL

Frank Row (1)
Archdale: Abbotsleigh pretty strong, Roseville doing well, MLC possibly cause well they did win two invitational and a number of comps but overall Abbotsleigh pretty dominant though (they won 4? competitions last year) and well Kambala quite possibly.
 

Chip'n'Chaser

Frank Row (1)
C'n'C here.

Just piggy-backing off of OffPutPlayer's detailed analysis, I thought I would provide my own predictions for the 2024 GPS Standings.

1. Grammar. Headed by "el capitan" Daniel Lloyd-Hurwitz, assisted by the likes of Will Ellis, David Guo, and Jason Lin (note that all four of them made at least the State Squad), they will be extremely tough competition. Specifically, Will Ellis is just coming off the back of a very successful NSDC campaign, with a 7-0 preliminary record and runner-ups for the competition, he is in really strong form. I see them topping the competition with a very strong 6-7 wins (could possibly lose one, as all schools are very strong this year). Along with this star-studded lineup, they boast the historical success within the GPS and have a great structure around them.

2. Riverview. My sleeper pick for this year, I think Riverview will go a long way in their pursuit of GPS glory, bouncing back from last year's lacklustre performance. With State Squad representative and returner Tom Doyle, along with young prospect Angus Martinez receiving a state callback, they could very well surprise many people. Considering their success in ISDA, topping their pool at 6-1 they have been in good form and shown tremendous depth from their other speakers. With their program run by Liam Donohoe (CEO of Speaker's Corner), and being coached by former Aus Schools and Grammar debater Toby Mok, they are in a very strong position this year. I think their success is imminent in the near future, and I wouldn't be surprised if they made a serious push this year for a GPS victory, winning 5-6 debates.

3. Joeys. Headlined by the Captain of the Australian NSDC team, it seems ludicrous to put them in third. However, I think that what Joeys makes up with by having Will McCarthy, the loss of Benji and their very poor run in ISDA sees major concerns for last years winners. I can't see them winning it all, and I think that they will, unfortunately, fall short due to their lack of depth. Despite being coached by World's Grand Finalist Matthew Toomey, which is rather helpful, their form can't allow me to justify them any higher than this. I do think, however, that Will McCarthy's high-level ability gives him to elevate his teammates further, giving Joeys a depth of skill they have not normally had historically. This extra addition of the likes of John Toohey (State Callback) and Ted O'Connell, allows me to think they can beat out Shore and everyone else below.

4. Shore. As much as it helps to have Michael Kwak (Aus Team), it is hard to ignore the lack of depth in the rest of the team. Unfortunately for Michael, depth is most certainly needed in GPS, where you won't be able to beat a strong team without multiple strong and consistent speakers. I also think their loss in the octo-finals is rather demoralising, and may set the tone for their GPS campaign unfortunately. If Shore are able to find their feet and win a lot of debates in GPS, I would not be surprised, but I can't put them any higher as of right now.

5. SBHS. Even with Visruth Anand, I think they may struggle in GPS a little bit this year. Not necessarily as a result of lack of skill, but rather an overflow of depth in the teams above them. I think their Eastside run has been mediocre at best, and I think they will be middle of the pack come GPS time. I think they get the edge over teams like Kings, Newington and Scots because of their experience at a GPS level, and a high caliber of historical speakers.

6. Kings. Coming off a decently successful ISDA campaign, it seems inconceivable to have them this low. Unfortunately, GPS is extremely tightly contested this year, and I think their lack of a star speaker and historical school ability leads me to place them in 6th. Their youth and inexperience in these big debates could leave them uncertain at times, and their previous GPS campaign makes it hard to put them any higher.

7. Newington. I think Newington's poor performances of the past will continue this season, despite their ISDA run. "Despite being coached by Ben Diskin, Newington unfortunately lack the foundational backing to really contend in GPS, however, they did pull off some great wins last year and could certainly do it again." - Agreed. Only thing to add is I think that their coaching and recent form just allows them to beat out Scots. I think Newington's underperformance in GPS will come as a result of the quality of the competition, for any other year I'm sure they'd be able to scrape a few more wins.

8. Scots. The loss of State Speaker Jehiel Panter has left them virtually stranded. They lack the foundation to contend, and now have lost a massive part of their program. They have done rather poorly in ISDA, winning only 1 debate, and I think they will continue to struggle in GPS. I think their best case would be around 1 win, unfortunately.
 

OutsideSentHer13

Allen Oxlade (6)
C'n'C here.

Just piggy-backing off of OffPutPlayer's detailed analysis, I thought I would provide my own predictions for the 2024 GPS Standings.

1. Grammar. Headed by "el capitan" Daniel Lloyd-Hurwitz, assisted by the likes of Will Ellis, David Guo, and Jason Lin (note that all four of them made at least the State Squad), they will be extremely tough competition. Specifically, Will Ellis is just coming off the back of a very successful NSDC campaign, with a 7-0 preliminary record and runner-ups for the competition, he is in really strong form. I see them topping the competition with a very strong 6-7 wins (could possibly lose one, as all schools are very strong this year). Along with this star-studded lineup, they boast the historical success within the GPS and have a great structure around them.

2. Riverview. My sleeper pick for this year, I think Riverview will go a long way in their pursuit of GPS glory, bouncing back from last year's lacklustre performance. With State Squad representative and returner Tom Doyle, along with young prospect Angus Martinez receiving a state callback, they could very well surprise many people. Considering their success in ISDA, topping their pool at 6-1 they have been in good form and shown tremendous depth from their other speakers. With their program run by Liam Donohoe (CEO of Speaker's Corner), and being coached by former Aus Schools and Grammar debater Toby Mok, they are in a very strong position this year. I think their success is imminent in the near future, and I wouldn't be surprised if they made a serious push this year for a GPS victory, winning 5-6 debates.

3. Joeys. Headlined by the Captain of the Australian NSDC team, it seems ludicrous to put them in third. However, I think that what Joeys makes up with by having Will McCarthy, the loss of Benji and their very poor run in ISDA sees major concerns for last years winners. I can't see them winning it all, and I think that they will, unfortunately, fall short due to their lack of depth. Despite being coached by World's Grand Finalist Matthew Toomey, which is rather helpful, their form can't allow me to justify them any higher than this. I do think, however, that Will McCarthy's high-level ability gives him to elevate his teammates further, giving Joeys a depth of skill they have not normally had historically. This extra addition of the likes of John Toohey (State Callback) and Ted O'Connell, allows me to think they can beat out Shore and everyone else below.

4. Shore. As much as it helps to have Michael Kwak (Aus Team), it is hard to ignore the lack of depth in the rest of the team. Unfortunately for Michael, depth is most certainly needed in GPS, where you won't be able to beat a strong team without multiple strong and consistent speakers. I also think their loss in the octo-finals is rather demoralising, and may set the tone for their GPS campaign unfortunately. If Shore are able to find their feet and win a lot of debates in GPS, I would not be surprised, but I can't put them any higher as of right now.

5. SBHS. Even with Visruth Anand, I think they may struggle in GPS a little bit this year. Not necessarily as a result of lack of skill, but rather an overflow of depth in the teams above them. I think their Eastside run has been mediocre at best, and I think they will be middle of the pack come GPS time. I think they get the edge over teams like Kings, Newington and Scots because of their experience at a GPS level, and a high caliber of historical speakers.

6. Kings. Coming off a decently successful ISDA campaign, it seems inconceivable to have them this low. Unfortunately, GPS is extremely tightly contested this year, and I think their lack of a star speaker and historical school ability leads me to place them in 6th. Their youth and inexperience in these big debates could leave them uncertain at times, and their previous GPS campaign makes it hard to put them any higher.

7. Newington. I think Newington's poor performances of the past will continue this season, despite their ISDA run. "Despite being coached by Ben Diskin, Newington unfortunately lack the foundational backing to really contend in GPS, however, they did pull off some great wins last year and could certainly do it again." - Agreed. Only thing to add is I think that their coaching and recent form just allows them to beat out Scots. I think Newington's underperformance in GPS will come as a result of the quality of the competition, for any other year I'm sure they'd be able to scrape a few more wins.

8. Scots. The loss of State Speaker Jehiel Panter has left them virtually stranded. They lack the foundation to contend, and now have lost a massive part of their program. They have done rather poorly in ISDA, winning only 1 debate, and I think they will continue to struggle in GPS. I think their best case would be around 1 win, unfortunately.
Very fair. I would swap Shore and Joeys just based on their ISDA results this term with Shore going 6-1 and Joeys only getting 2 wins. Rest of the list I agree with 100%.
 

OutsideSentHer13

Allen Oxlade (6)
CAS Predictions

Aloys:

Always a strong team and a very well established program. Results in ISDA left a bit to be desired in the pool rounds but coming third in their pool is nothing to sneeze at. Will be interesting to see how their knockouts campaign progresses.

Cranbrook:
Surprisingly strong results in ISDA and seems to be a lot of depth in this program with all teams making the knockout stages. Not much is known about the team but it seems that they are working well together.

Barker:
Last year's premiers will be looking to go back-to-back with a few returning 1s debaters. Many were picked in CAS representative sides last year so the talent is obviously there. Only thing that puts them this low is their somewhat poor results in ISDA this year.

Knox:
Always a strong school but hasn't performed at 1s level the past few years. ISDA results weren't bad with 4 wins but margins would suggest that they weren't overly convincing when they got up.

Trinity:
1 win this year to date. Enough said.

Waverley:
Would be very surprised if they won this year given their history. You never know but it's doubtful.
 

OutsideSentHer13

Allen Oxlade (6)
Really? Not sure how accurate it is... Riverview at 2? Aus Captain at 3? Not sure about how good this list is.
Riverview have a state rep and a state callback. Clearly work well as a team based on results this year. Came first in ISDA total wins as well so have a lot of depth in the program.

Joeys on the other hand have really underperformed this season. We know they have a strong speakers but if they can't get the job done in actual debates then I don't believe they can GPS overall. Especially in such a competitive comp this year.
 

SuperCrimson

Frank Row (1)
Riverview have a state rep and a state callback. Clearly work well as a team based on results this year. Came first in ISDA total wins as well so have a lot of depth in the program.

Joeys on the other hand have really underperformed this season. We know they have a strong speakers but if they can't get the job done in actual debates then I don't believe they can GPS overall. Especially in such a competitive comp this year.
Who's the state rep? Didn't think View got a state speaker or Reserve...
I think ISDA can sometimes be a bad indicator of GPS, with differing topic styles and Adj quality.
ISDA perhaps lends itself to teams who make less complex arguments but win the "vibe check" of the debate.

SC
 

OutsideSentHer13

Allen Oxlade (6)
...With State Squad representative and returner Tom Doyle, along with young prospect Angus Martinez receiving a state callback, they could very well surprise many people
Who's the state rep? Didn't think View got a state speaker or Reserve...
I think ISDA can sometimes be a bad indicator of GPS, with differing topic styles and Adj quality.
ISDA perhaps lends itself to teams who make less complex arguments but win the "vibe check" of the debate.

SC
see above.

Fair call about ISDA but nonetheless strong teams do tend to get the job done. With an Australian captain you would think they would squeeze out more than two wins. If traditionally advanced teams like Grammar still find a way to win I think that other teams should do it as well.
 

SuperCrimson

Frank Row (1)
see above.

Fair call about ISDA but nonetheless strong teams do tend to get the job done. With an Australian captain you would think they would squeeze out more than two wins. If traditionally advanced teams like Grammar still find a way to win I think that other teams should do it as well.
Perhaps you are right. Although, for a new debater in the 1sts it can take a while to upskill, so perhaps Ted can show himself in GPS.

Any predictions for Reps teams around the board?
SC
 
see above.

Fair call about ISDA but nonetheless strong teams do tend to get the job done. With an Australian captain you would think they would squeeze out more than two wins. If traditionally advanced teams like Grammar still find a way to win I think that other teams should do it as well.
I've heard Kings have a fresh new debater. His name is Gardner Dowling, from what I've heard about him, he is a very good debater, and should be a great addition to the Kings program. Will be interesting to see how Dowling goes, hopefully he doesn't choke under the pressure of GPS debating.

Regards,


Stalin
 

Romanforum

Peter Burge (5)
With week 2 of Octos up tonight, here are my thoughts:

Abbotsleigh v Barker

Nice to see Abbotsleigh back where they belong as seed A1. They’ve been the clear pick of Pool A and carry strong Archdale form from last year. They face a new look Barker minus the team that won CAS last year and made ISDA semis. Barker have just made it through a relatively easier pool and I really can’t see an upset tonight with Abbotsleigh to win by a clear margin.

View v Pymble

Much has been said already about this View team. With some cattle returning from their Senior B ISDA premiership team last year, they will be too strong down the bench for a Pymble team that has done well thus far and should be happy with their season.

PLC v Aloysius

This is a real 50/50. Aloysius has institutional strength and were runners up last year but not much is known about them this year, whereas PLC have done well in their pool and boast a state reserve. Think it will come down to topic / side for this one. Aloysius to win via a narrow margin as their program is a little stronger than PLC’s.

GLTA
 
Top