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NSW Schools - Trial Games and Selections 2013

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George Smith

Ted Thorn (20)
and also this may compliment your discussion for team composition....

What to look for in players
When eligibility and the selection criteria have been established and the selectors have been identified, the selectors need to focus on their mission - to select the best players. The following points are suggested to outline the 'best' players.
(i) Skill - individual position, unit, decision making.
To identify the skill of a player, a 'knowledge of the game' is very important. There are various checklists that can be used to make an assessment off players. If used (in whatever form), it should be agreed and understood by the selectors.
The selectors should look for the rugby specific individual skills that every player needs and then look at how they apply their skills to their respective positions, mini units, units, team. They should also display the relevant decision-making capabilities.
(ii) Physical conditioning relative to rugby and specific positions.
Selectors need to look at the physical conditioning of the players. To achieve a competitive standard of play, conditioning is a key ingredient. A general guide should be given and, where appropriate, benchmarks set for players to achieve. Consideration should be given for 'position specific' conditioning. For example, a front row forward will require different types of physical conditioning than a player on the wing.
(iii) Attitude
An attitude that encourages teamwork while achieving individual goals should be sought. However, the selectors need to outline the type of attitude they expect and how they can identify the type of attitude they are looking for. Selectors need to have the time and availability to watch trainings or matches and visit with coaches in order to recognise a worthwhile attitude.
(iv) Fulfill the team pattern, game plan
Can the player fulfill the team pattern? Is the player able to adjust to the game plan? This will be based primarily on the player's rugby skill and physical conditioning with their attitude being an underlying factor. An objective approach is good when determining if a player is able to fulfill the team pattern and game plan. The 'checklist' can help accomplish this approach. This allows the selector to present an unbiased report to a selection meeting on a player or players where it can then be subject to scrutiny.
(v) Development v Achievement
Most teams play to win. With this mentality it can often be difficult to work on the development of players to ensure a team can have a good player base and continue to be competitive from season to season
 

Wood Rat

Alfred Walker (16)
Good point, and the problem only gets worse post school, there are about 10 forwards who fancy themselves as loose forwards and only 2 props. In the back division, they all firmly believe that they are #10's, #15 or #14. All gravy, and no meat.
sounds like RL to me where everybody does the same thing!

this reflects the experiment of coaching or playing in pods. The seagulls never needed an excuse to not put their head in. Now its encouraged and 1,2 and 3 are rewarded for sea-gulling as well. With all teams trying to play in this mode, with limited contest at the breakdown, you only have to change the 2nd man in can't contest for the ball and you do have that other game. I know not having the pack chase from one side to the other is meant to conserve energy, but plenty are using it as a chance to not work.
I watched the U/16 CCC v AICES match last Sunday and was disappoint to hear the ref call "stop pushing" without the scrum having moved (the team with the feed had the ball in the 2nd row and had come under a bit of pressure/started to lift). At this level of representative football at this age the rules are restricting the development of the scrum. further mimicking the other game.
 

Hugie

Ted Fahey (11)
here you go

ARU HPU Player Checklist

Prop Forward
Scrum formation and engagement
Body shape and height in scrum
Lineout support / lifting
Body height and angle at breakdown
Impact at the breakdown
Work rate at the breakdown
Effectiveness in tackling


Hooker
Lineout throw
Scrum organization
Hooking, including ball channeling
Body height and angle at breakdown
Running with ball in hand
Mobility in attack and defence
Effectiveness in tackling

Lock Forward
Quality & consistency of push in scrum
Body shape in scrum
Drive in ruck & maul
Lineout jumping / liftiing
Reactiveness to opposition ball in lineout
Number of touches in general play
Number & quality of tackles made
Mobility in general play
Impact with carrying ball
Backrow Forwards
Contribution to scrum
Contribution to lineout as a lifter or jumper
Pressure on opposition in close
Pressure on opposition out wide
Running lines in attack (support play & linking)
and defence
Effectiveness in tackle
Effectiveness at breakdown: securing or
sealing off ball
Speed of arrival at breakdown
General involvement in play
Ball skills – running, handling, evasion
Impact on the game
Scrum Half
Service from scrum, lineout and general play in
both directions
Kicking
Handling of pressure
Putting pressure on his opposition
Blindside work in attack & defence
Communication with forwards
Field vision
Decision making
Communication with forwards & backs
Organisation skills

Fly Half
Starting position
Running alignment & angle
Quality & speed of ball transfer
Support lines & effort
Ability to control game
Kicking quality
Organisation & bringing up defence
Defence – effectiveness of tackles
Composure under pressure

Centres
Running alignment
Running angle
Agility & running skills
Quality & timing of ball transfers
Support play
Creativity
Midfield tackling
Chasing of kicks
Counter attack contribution
Communication in defence
Wingers
Finishing
Involvement on own side of field in attack &
defence
Involvement on other side of field in attack &
defence
Support of the fullback
Communication with fullback & other wing
Chasing of kicks
Positional play from scrum & lineout in attack &
defence
Counter attack
Receiving kicks & returning or other options
Defensive qualities – tackles made
Fullback
Catching & kicking
Organisation of back three (defence, kicks,
counter attack)
Positional play – defence & attack
Defensive positioning & tackling
Staying in the attack –support & chasing
Communication skills
Evasion skills

George, this is good stuff as always.
My view is that in rugby (as in most things) first you need to determine how you want your team to go about its business ie strategy. Are you going for a pod type strategy, a fatigue, 10 man rugby, Randwick run at all costs etc. Then take your checklist above and modify it to that strategy. For junior rep. rugby I think the rep. coach need to let the selectors (via checklist) and all the boys trying out, know what approach he/she is going for before the trials. AND let all the unsuccessful boys know that just because they weren't selected doesn't mean under another strategy or with different selectors they wouldn't be selected.

The Cheshire Cat would no doubt point out to Alice "who the best player is very much depends on what your trying to achieve, my dear."
 

George Smith

Ted Thorn (20)
George, this is good stuff as always.
My view is that in rugby (as in most things) first you need to determine how you want your team to go about its business ie strategy. Are you going for a pod type strategy, a fatigue, 10 man rugby, Randwick run at all costs etc. Then take your checklist above and modify it to that strategy. For junior rep. rugby I think the rep. coach need to let the selectors (via checklist) and all the boys trying out, know what approach he/she is going for before the trials. AND let all the unsuccessful boys know that just because they weren't selected doesn't mean under another strategy or with different selectors they wouldn't be selected.

The Cheshire Cat would no doubt point out to Alice "who the best player is very much depends on what your trying to achieve, my dear."
Your points are valid (as always) Hugie, the list posted is a checklist used by HPU and is applicable for JGS, NGS assessment along with other purposes.

A rep coach, knowing his competition, will have formed his game plan on how he wants their team to play, afterwhich the cattle can then be selected to execute the game plan. However the coach & co selectors should have objective criteria to assess "what's in front of them" on candidates' trial performance. This way "line-ball" selections can be made as well as take out the "reputation" factor. Hopefully feedback can also be given to participants using the assessment observations.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
The ARU HPU list is no real secret. I think it was first in the public domain from the Irish (I think) via some IRB player development symposium.

As George has said, it is a guide that can be further customised.

The Hobbits have made their version of the list publicly available via the resource library section on their Juniors former Web site.
Download this document "Selection Ranking by Position Skills Use this form to rate positional play during rep trials."
http://southerndistricsjru.rugbynet.com.au/default.asp?type=library

The above document has the criteria in a nice little spreadsheet format if anyone is interested.

Edit: If the above sounds like I am being dismissive of George Smith for taking the time to post the list, that was not the intention. It was a previous dialogue I had with George a while ago that inspired me to google for the listing.
My post is just to show that it is not ARU HPU "secret mens business" and where people can find the criteria in a user friendly format (if that tickles their fancy).
 

Newbie

Bill McLean (32)
Interesting dialouge between HJ and GS. Either way I personally know that rugby, as far as player development is concerned at the elite junior level, is streaks ahead of the evil cousin (both on and OFF the field).

When it comes to skill levels there is no comparison. Admittedly the evil cousin always boasts better defence, but I ask you, how often do you now see in league 'one on one' defence? Minimal IMHO!
 

Newbie

Bill McLean (32)
Anyway I have organised for my day's business to conclude in Pmyble just after lunch, thus allowing me to go and watch my first game of elite junior rugby; CHS v GPS (go the sons of the working class ... ... ...lol)! Anyone else going out?

And on the following day I am going to watch the 'Irish' Lions hand Australia its rear end! the makings of a memorable weekend!

I lo
 

strokeside

Larry Dwyer (12)
[quote="Newbie, post: 501688, member: 4768"

quasi-conjugal [/quote]

Is there such a thing, Google it, 2.23M results!!
PS.the new avatar is freeking me out!
 

Newbie

Bill McLean (32)
[quote="Newbie, post: 501688, member: 4768"

quasi-conjugal

Is there such a thing, Google it, 2.23M results!!
PS.the new avatar is freeking me out![/quote]

This was a conundrum for me to be honest. I didn't quite know how to say 'sheep shagger' without incurring the wrath of Lee Grant! So I tried to select words that word convey this message ... ... ... lol.

And I love my new avatar, especially the lower left quadrant ... ... ... lol!
 

Brian Westlake

Arch Winning (36)
Someone go grab Westlake for me! I need help to drink all this free alcohol in the Qantas club in Melbourne . . . lol
Newbs

I have just got back to Sydney as well and am planning my weekend with maybe an optic at MMM vs Randwick Colts and then a quiet bev or 4 watching the wretched smelly unwashed from the British Isles v our finest gentlemen athletes. How did the boys go today?
 

Top Cat

Sydney Middleton (9)
How are you with a video camera Lee ??? In my Videos, I have more footage of Bugs crawling on the ground and clouds in the sky than the actual game ! Lol.

I was once so brilliant at taking videos of the bugs on the ground and the clouds in the sky that that I would miss filming my boys especially when they were involved in the play or went over the chalk :rolleyes: . That has all been cured with a video camera with a viewfinder :). Now I just have to keep my mouth shut and then I don't have to do so much editing.

Videos are great for reviewing the matches but it just makes me wonder even more how some players get selected and others don't.
 

Homer

Ted Fahey (11)
How did this slip through without comment??
I don't question the boys talent, or the boys themselves, they are only taking a path that is currently available, my problem is with the schools RU that allows this to happen.
I assume both these boys will make NSW and probably the touring Schoolboy side, possibly at the expense of some other very capable rugby players. They will enjoy all that has to offer, and then totally turn their back on the game when they land back in Oz after the tour. I'm sure the people that I work for would not allow me to go of and work for someone else, get a huge promotion, then dump them, and come back to the original employer!
Sounds like something the ALP would dream up!

Are both boys definately lost to Rugby? Wasn't Moarea in the youth 7s team last year? Also isn't Lussick sign to the mungoes as well?

Maybe they are chasing some development that the ARU just can't support. Lutunipulu came out of school as one of the best centres in recent times and has since faded away in what there is of the ARU system.
 
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