NSW U16 - schools, NSWJRU / SJRU / CRJU 2013
- Thread starter Man on the hill
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Key U16 Dates for Schools
2 June U16 and U18 Trials at Foreshaw Park AICES U16 v CHS U16 A, CCC U16 v CHS U16 B
6 June U16 and U18 Trials at Cranbrook CAS U16 North vs South
8 Jun/9 June Country Schools Trials at Armidale
16 June U16 trials at Pittwater Park No 2 AICES U16 v CCC U16, CNTY U16 v AICES U16, CCC U16 v Cnty U16, ISA U16 v CHS U16
16 June GPS U16 (Presidents) trials at Kings
22/23 June NSW SRU U16 Champs at Knox
TBA ARU U16 Champs at TBA
2 June U16 and U18 Trials at Foreshaw Park AICES U16 v CHS U16 A, CCC U16 v CHS U16 B
6 June U16 and U18 Trials at Cranbrook CAS U16 North vs South
8 Jun/9 June Country Schools Trials at Armidale
16 June U16 trials at Pittwater Park No 2 AICES U16 v CCC U16, CNTY U16 v AICES U16, CCC U16 v Cnty U16, ISA U16 v CHS U16
16 June GPS U16 (Presidents) trials at Kings
22/23 June NSW SRU U16 Champs at Knox
TBA ARU U16 Champs at TBA
Man on the hill
Alex Ross (28)
has the CAS north / South squads been named?
Brainstrust
Watty Friend (18)
Below is off the CAS website inferring they will play the Norths v South 16's this weekend..while I havent heard of the squads yet, they must be close to naming them..
16s - A North Harbour and South Harbour team is selected to trial for CAS 16s team. The North v South match is played prior to the Opens CHS fixture at Cranbrook prior to the long weekend in term 2.
Any boy in an Open school team and wants to be considered for selection in the 16s One CAS team is then selected to participate in the NSW trials.
Brainstrust
Watty Friend (18)
CAS 16's squad should be announced in the next day or so, with training scheduled for next Tuesday and then a game for CAS North v South on Thursday. Brilliant timing with the state championships on the Saturday. No doubt a few district rep coaches will be eager to see their troops get through that one ok...
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Just shows the animosity between school and club "systems": State Champs have been on the long weekend in June for a while now.
Brainstrust
Watty Friend (18)
not sure there's any great animosity from the schools side..just a healthy dose of lack of recognition...the ones who it is tough on is the boys trying to do both. CAS N/S trial on Thursday and back up for a sharp performance on saturday morning at the state champs, tough call.!
Is it time to copy and paste the various posts that we posted last year about this to what appears to be a new audience?
plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.
To be eligible to play in the NSW Junior RU championships, one would normally expect the players to be participating in the competition sanctioned by the local affiliate of the NSW JRU ie SJRU Sunday Competition (there is no U16's playing on Saturday in SJRU).
Taking that one step further, in any normal week the boys rocking up to NSW JRU State Championships for their district club should then playing School on Saturday, and SJRU club on Sunday. Playing Thursday in a CAS trial and Saturday at State champs should be almost like a holiday.
Oh that is right, you can qualify to play in NSW JRU Under 16's championships without playing any Under 16 Rugby in the Club system. Interesting concept. That is a good way to encourage participation in the local village club competition, and therefore to give kids outside the CAS/AAGPS and ISA systems a decent weekly rugby experience. Where is that sarcasm "smiley"?
"But my boy should have two pathways". Then HTFU and play two games a week to earn the extra chance.
If you are part of the GPS arms race and "not released" by your school, then HTFU you are only entitled to one pathway. Train hard, Play hard and get selected via the only pathway you are entitled/qualified to follow.
I reckon that there are some kids who would "like" to play CAS rep rugby, as well as SJRU rugby and therefore have two pathways for selection to National U16. Unfortunately the beastly selectors at CAS rugby insist that their rep players attend a CAS school to gain selection. How unfair is that? Kids are only eligible for a School representative guernsey if they attend a school in that association and play rugby for that association, yet the Juniors representation pathway is completely open slather - whether you play in their sanctioned competition or not- the equivalent of a lad who is attending Battlersville HS being selected in ISA Under 16's. "But he was at Oakhill for a couple of weeks in Year 7".
Brainstrust
Watty Friend (18)
Guys - long quotes of the previous quote just take up space. Quote the section of the post you want to deal with or mention the post number.
Thanks Ed
Hugh, not sure you should assume that those of who are new to the site, are new to club or school rugby..While I totally get your point re having to play club to play rep, there is so much more to the issue than schools withdrawing boys from club rugby. ...I have been through this on a number of occasions now and with the exception of boys in the 16's age group being selected in their respective school 1st's the schools have allowed boys to play..for the GPs boys this year the issue is further complicated by the gps comp already having started by state championship weekend. The choice is being made by parents not schools..and the eligibility dispensation is there to at least try and keep the stronger players in that path way to some extent..via CHS, CCC, ISA, CAS , GPS and state championships everyone has 2 potential pathways...for the most part the boys who are apparently letting the club system down have given 7 or 8 years to club rugby. Why should potentially playing one season with a club in the 16's qualify you to play state champs over someone who has given many years ? A workable solution would be a starting point to keep boys in club, but not sure what that is, but shutting the eligibility concession for 16's does nothing to keep the best players in the game.
Thanks Ed
Hugh, not sure you should assume that those of who are new to the site, are new to club or school rugby..While I totally get your point re having to play club to play rep, there is so much more to the issue than schools withdrawing boys from club rugby. ...I have been through this on a number of occasions now and with the exception of boys in the 16's age group being selected in their respective school 1st's the schools have allowed boys to play..for the GPs boys this year the issue is further complicated by the gps comp already having started by state championship weekend. The choice is being made by parents not schools..and the eligibility dispensation is there to at least try and keep the stronger players in that path way to some extent..via CHS, CCC, ISA, CAS , GPS and state championships everyone has 2 potential pathways...for the most part the boys who are apparently letting the club system down have given 7 or 8 years to club rugby. Why should potentially playing one season with a club in the 16's qualify you to play state champs over someone who has given many years ? A workable solution would be a starting point to keep boys in club, but not sure what that is, but shutting the eligibility concession for 16's does nothing to keep the best players in the game.
The Taxi Driver
Allen Oxlade (6)
I agree with the above. The end game is to have the biggest possible pool of 16s being considered in at least 1 or two forums. Stamp Champs are great as it brings in ACT plus country teams. NSW Schools brings in the rest (with duplication).
Does Country actually have three chances to be viewed (but not selected) ? i.e. state champs when they represent their region; NSW Schools and then Country?
Of the three teams, country, SJRU and NSW Schools, that is between 69 and 75 boys (plus shadow players). I think that sounds about right; some will inevitably miss out.
Does Country actually have three chances to be viewed (but not selected) ? i.e. state champs when they represent their region; NSW Schools and then Country?
Of the three teams, country, SJRU and NSW Schools, that is between 69 and 75 boys (plus shadow players). I think that sounds about right; some will inevitably miss out.
Man on the hill
Alex Ross (28)
Man on the hill
Alex Ross (28)
& of course GPS - which is now effectively a 6 team comp get 2 XVs into the Schools U16 trials on weekend of 23 June, meanwhile CHS get a solitary XV - oh well....
It is important that the best kids are "put in front of the selectors". I AGREE, but how many chances should kids get to be put in front of the selectors?
Should some kids get two chances to be "put in front of the selectors"? Most would AGREE "as long as it is my kid who is one of the some kids with two chances."
Should some kids get three chances to be "put in front of the selectors"? Self interest rules again.
The Under 16 pathway is like the Light Horse Interchange (or a bowl of spaghetti) with so many levels and options.
All players in the big pool seemingly have equal chances of making NSW Schools, but it seems that some have more equal chances than others.
Brainstrust
Watty Friend (18)
I believe that the Country sides are always picked ahead of the state championships. They have their country week tournament and select the side then, so the players form at the state championship is pretty much irrelevant. In my view , with the exception of GPS where they enter 2 sides to the NSW schools tournament (not sure on the history there), the Sydney based players pretty much have as much opportunity as anyone else to be picked in a side to play the National U16 championships, regardless of their school system. Rumour is that the NSW schools team, and the SJRU side are effectively horse traded depending on who gets the first pick each year, and the aim is that 2 reasonably equal ( best available) sides are selected. So I remain lost when the argument keeps getting thrown up that "private school boys" are getting an unfair advantage via the system. There may of course be a case that the powers responsible for selecting the player pool are watching more GPS / CAS school rugby than CHS , CCC, ISA or whatever, but to suggest that the process is grossly unfair, seems grossly unfair to me..
Like the alleged NSW/QLD Combined Country team to play the Lions in Newcastle, the naming of the team SJRU is false advertising. The majority of the kids that play under the SJRU banner are not SJRU U16 players.
Call the two teams NSW I and NSW II, the best of the rest throw their hat in the ring for a place in the Combined States Team.
Queensland manage to do this, why can't we?
Why do we need to call our teams pretend names?
What role does NSW Schools RU do that SJRU can't do (or vice versa)?
Get one mob in charge. Have a geographically based selection trial over the long weekend in June, and have a second trial based on school association groupings in early July, then name the NSW I, NSW II teams.
Call the two teams NSW I and NSW II, the best of the rest throw their hat in the ring for a place in the Combined States Team.
Queensland manage to do this, why can't we?
Why do we need to call our teams pretend names?
What role does NSW Schools RU do that SJRU can't do (or vice versa)?
Get one mob in charge. Have a geographically based selection trial over the long weekend in June, and have a second trial based on school association groupings in early July, then name the NSW I, NSW II teams.
Brainstrust
Watty Friend (18)
Hugh, certainly agree with that call. If the SJRU side doesn't truly reflect the SJRU system, then by all means make up of the teams should be changed. I think that on a previous thread it was mentioned that the ARU wanted to take the tournament to a NSW 1 and 2 format, but the SJRU got all out of shape about it. Whatever the solution is, it is guaranteed that it won't please everyone.
I can sympathise with the challenges faced by SJRU in establishing and maintaining viable competitions at U15 and above.
It is often claimed that one of the reasons of having a NSW team at nationals called the "SJRU team" selected from kids who may have played SJRU rugby at some stage in U14 or U15 and not necessarily in U16's is to maintain a persona that the SJRU competition is strong and important.
There are some who would claim that it is just so Committee members can strut around various places in their SJRU branded clothing looking and feeling important. Others would also observe that the Committee members sons seldom miss out on selection.
There is a very strong argument to have the Colts run a Colts 4th Grade and an Under 85kg competition for the U16, U17 and U18 age grades while SJRU stops organising competitions at Under 14 level. That seems to be about the last age group where the SJRU traditional village club model works and works well.
It is often claimed that one of the reasons of having a NSW team at nationals called the "SJRU team" selected from kids who may have played SJRU rugby at some stage in U14 or U15 and not necessarily in U16's is to maintain a persona that the SJRU competition is strong and important.
There are some who would claim that it is just so Committee members can strut around various places in their SJRU branded clothing looking and feeling important. Others would also observe that the Committee members sons seldom miss out on selection.
There is a very strong argument to have the Colts run a Colts 4th Grade and an Under 85kg competition for the U16, U17 and U18 age grades while SJRU stops organising competitions at Under 14 level. That seems to be about the last age group where the SJRU traditional village club model works and works well.
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